Help in Balancing Class Changes?

[Lnik3500]

Hello eveyone

This has been on my mind for a long time, and I need help to better understand what I can do.
Basicaly, I have a class change system, where you can go from Knight to Healer or things like that, but my problem resides with levels.

I currently have 3 options that I had in mind regarding levels:

1- Each classes has a unique level and isn't influenced by the previous class level (Knight is level 40 and Healer is level 1 and your character class becomes level 1 Healer)

2- Each classes has a unique level and is influenced by the previous class level (Knight is level 40 and Healer is level 1 and your character class becomes a level 20 Healer)

3- All classes shares the same level (Knight and Healer is level 40)

So with these options, I need help to make a choice on game design perspective, and I think all of them can be good enough in my opinion.
So from game design perspective, here are the pros and cons of each of them:

1- Classes do not share levels, but if you unlock a class later in the game that is level 1 when your average class levels is 60, it could be a problem since by the time you get to level 60, you are no longer interested in leveling up a level 1 character, especially since my aprty size is 3 instead of 4.

2- Classes share partially class levels. This is what I had in mind at the beginning, but it could potentially break the game if not done carefully. This options is to make the new class you selected take on a certain % of EXP your previous class had and level that class up, that could make it a better choice, but I'm still not sure about it.

3- All classes share the same level. from game design perspective, it sucks, but it would be the better option if the player won't bother leveling up lower leveled classes.

So with this, i hope I can get people to share to me some better ideas or how they feel with these options, thank you and please don't hesitate to ask question if there wasn't something clear

 

[AMGLime]

Have you considered having Class Levels and Character Levels separate? So you can have a Character Level of 20, a Knight Level of 10 and a Healer Level of 1. Statistically, you'd be a Level 20 Character, no matter what your class is, and as they level or whatever, you'd unlock new skills and maybe more stats? Look at Final Fantasy Tactics Job System if you want a picture of what I'm talking about.

 

[mauvebutterfly]

Another option would be to have each class provide two kinds of benefits. Let's call them character benefits and class benefits.

As a quick example, suppose you level up the knight class, and that level up comes with two benefits: a +20 hp character benefit, and a guard skill class benefit. While playing as a knight the character would get both these benefits, but when changing classes they only keep the character benefit.

This kind of system allows you to have characters get stronger by leveling any class, but still restricts important parts of class identity to the classes themselves. It also means that your level 60 knight won't be killed in one hit by everything if you decide to switch to level 1 healer and start leveling up a new class.

Balance will be an issue with this system, but if somebody wants to grind and max out every class on every character I wouldn't worry too much about them being overpowered at that point. If they choose to do that much grinding they probably want to be overpowered.

 

[Lnik3500]

@mauvebutterfly Is it not what equipments are for?

I think your idea is great and it would solve some issues on that part and I think equipments are essencially that. You character becomes stronger by the equipment (like more hp or things like that).

Well I could be wrong too.

 

[Wavelength]

I'm not a big fan of Class systems in general (in my opinion they tend to heavily dilute characters' identity and segregate interesting mechanics in an unsatisfying way), but I'll try to put myself into the mindset of someone who is, since this tends to be a popular RPG feature.

If you have a fairly standard, linear JRPG, I would recommend approach #3. There tends to be an enormous power difference between a Level 40 character and a Level 1 character (or even 40 vs. 30), so players will not take advantage of the opportunity to class-change because it will make it so hard for them to defeat the next few bosses with that now lower-level character. Just give the player the benefit of the doubt and let them switch classes freely without having to grind 40 levels again.

If you have a gameplay-focused RPG structured around playing through the same content multiple times before reaching the end, I would recommend approach #1. Players have the room to play around with different party compositions in such a game, and will enjoy having a reason to go back to older/easier content and grind a bit to level up their class-changed character. Games that could support a mechanic like this include Disgaea (which actually uses this mechanic, called "Reincarnation"), Dark Cloud, and World of Warcraft.

• In recommending this, I assume that you have multiple party members, though you didn't explicitly say you do. If there's only one party member, it's probably too extreme to drop from LV40 to LV1, unless equipment is taking up most of your "power budget". In the case of just one party member, what I would do is have each class track EXP seprately, but give "bonus" experience (perhaps 10% of EXP earned) to inactive classes when you earn EXP. So Cleric starts at Lv 1 and Knight starts at Lv 1, and if you fight a hundred battles with Knight and earn 25000 EXP, bringing you to Level 40, you've also granted 2500 EXP to your Cleric class, which might place it at around level 15. This is a lot less punishing than sending you back to Level 1.

#2 is a cool idea in theory, but its design is very problematic in practice. Imagine a player who levels their Knight to 40, switches to Cleric (which was at 1) to become a Level 20 Cleric. Then they switch back to Knight (at 40) to become a Level 30 Knight (or is it Level 40 still?). Then back to Cleric - now a Level 25 Cleric. And so on. Either the Cleric will eventually reach 40, which is abusable and might as well be system #3, or both classes with eventually equalize at Level 28, which harshly penalized the player for switching classes (they no longer have a Lv 40 anything) and otherwise might as well be system #1.

 

[Lnik3500]

Oh right it would be important to know the setting, in my case, it would a non-linear standard RPG. I have 3 party members maximum. I think the EXP sharing is kind of what I had in mind for #2, but I should be thinking more about it before that

 

[kirbwarrior]

The only game I've played where changing classes drops your level significantly is Dragon Quest 3, where changing your class is:
A) A huge deal and telegraphed as such in narrative
Completely optional
C) Honestly broken in favor of the player. You drop to level 1, but you only lose half your stats, so you can (with patience) get absurd stats and skill lists

Otherwise, I'd either have levels all stay the same, or separate class from level (in some manner). Most Square games do this by levels gained from exp, classes change base stats, and skills gained from a secondary experience (JP normally). Some go further and affect stat-gains from level up with the class (dive into Mechanics in FFT to see how unnecessarily complex you can make this).

tend to heavily dilute characters' identity

Frankly I believe that characters should have at least something to differentiate themselves in systems like this. It can be something from an inherent skill, a single stat modifier, or even some very specific trait. In the class game I'm planning, Berserk is a downside state that makes you lose control, but one character has a large attack bonus while berserk because he used to be a berserker (which is an "enemy only class"). This effect helps none of the class options but rather helps against specific enemies that use Berserk (oh, sure, you can berserk him yourself for more options...)

segregate interesting mechanics

It's no different than some games doing the same problem with a large cast. This just falls under "how can I make this actor/class fun?". I loved making class systems all the way back to 2003 (2k didn't have a real class system). My favorite way to do it was to make characters as I normally would, then turn them into classes that the character gives the party upon joining. This gives them both a distinct feel and lets the player do what xe want with the party.

 

[Wavelength]

My favorite way to do it was to make characters as I normally would, then turn them into classes that the character gives the party upon joining. This gives them both a distinct feel and lets the player do what xe want with the party.

I like this a lot!!