# Hit Chance Poll

## What hit rate do you prefer?

• Total voters
69

#### PauloHPBender

##### Delirious Storyteller
I like to use skills with a 100% hit chance, except when they are purposefully strong and erratic, where I give something around 80%. Whoever, life is not that simple, and I like to use a hit formula:

Skill Hit * (Attacker's Hit/Target's Evasion)

This way, even 100% hit skills may still miss against enemies that are too nimble and elusive.

#### Frostorm

##### []D[][]V[][]D
I prefer the formula Yanfly provides: skillHitRate * (userHitRate - targetEvadeRate)

@PauloHPBender I think your formula would give some unintuitive results. For example, let's say the player has a 100% Hit chance and the skill being used is also at 100%. If the target has 20% Evasion, you would end up with the following:
1.00 * (1.00 / 0.20) = 5.00 or 500% Hit chance, meaning it's guaranteed to hit.
In essence, your target's Evasion actually HELPS the attack to land. Simply adding "1" would fix this though. Unless I'm mistaken and the target evade rate already starts at 1.00, but I'm pretty sure it isn't...

Just looking at Yanfly's formula gives credit to the fact that the target's evade rate does not start at 1, but rather, 0.

Doing the math again using this:
1.00 * (1.00 / 1.20) = 0.833 or 83.3% Hit chance, likewise if the target has 50% evasion:
1.00 * (1.00 / 1.50) = 0.666 or 66.6% Hit chance. Basically, the effective evasion would be less than the stated % given. Just something to keep in mind when balancing your enemies' stats.

An alternative to not changing your formula would be to give your enemies 120% evasion in the case of the 1st example. This way the game would read it as "1.20".

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#### PauloHPBender

##### Delirious Storyteller
You are actually right; a bigger difference in the hit/Evasion interaction results in a worse outcome for the weaker end. The idea is to extremize the ends.

#### Frostorm

##### []D[][]V[][]D
Just keep in mind most players get pissed off seeing a lot of misses lol. (as you can tell from earlier posts)

#### YoraeRasante

##### Regular
A normal hit, like a normal attack or magic, for me has to be 100%.
Anything less, it is reserved for risky attacks. Like, double attacks, but they are both weaker, like 3*atk instead of the usual 4*atk, and have only 80% hit chance. This way they are gambling for more damage in exchance for the chance of doing less or none at all, and makes sense since you need to sacrifice precision, both to hit and to hit right, to be fast enough to hit more. Triple, 2.5*atk and 70%. And one of 50% chance but almost guaranteed critical hit.

States like Blind making single-target attacks like main physical or single-target magical ones makes sense to me too. You can't aim properly what you can't see after all.

Stat-giving magics on the other hand... I'd only let them have a low damage chance if they are either cheap but powerful, like an instant-kill not that much more expensive than the basic fire spell but made about 30% chance, or give them secondary effects if that state chance didn't hit, like if they don't get the superpoison they still take the normal poison, some damage or both.

Now, for personal battler hit and evasion chance, be it actor, class or enemy... I like to keep the actor/enemy's hit chance on at least 100%, unless it is a very gimmicky one like the mentioned "extra effect when misses". Classes though, if you can change them they *may* increase or lower a bit.
Evasion is on a character basis, I guess. Some chance is good though, because while missing feels bad being able to avoid the hits yourself feels relieving.

I also don't like the normal hit/evasion calculations.
I think hit chance should also count some bonus when comparing the luck of both the attacker and defender, and evasion should be the same, but also include their agility in it.
I'd personaly use (hit calculation) * (1 + ((attacker's luk - defender's luck)/(attacker's luck + defender's luck)). That means the higher the difference in their luck, the higher an increase/decrease in hit chance.
And for evasion I'd add the agility in this, but more than luck, maybe double, (defender's evasion) * (1 + (((defender's agility*2 + defender's luk) - (attacker's agility*2 + attacker's luck))/(attacker's luck + attacker's agility*2 + defender's luck + defender's agility*2)).
Also, like yanfly did in his hit accuracy plugin, I think it is better to just combine the hit and evasion calculation. as in actual hit chance being hit chance - evasion chance. As it is it doesn't reward someone investing in equipment to raise hit chance over 100%, and a higher evasion will let you avoid the skill even if the hit chance would overshadow your evasion.

Just adding a couple boss ideas that could use hit and evasion in interesting ways... a boss that almost always misses at the point you'd fight it in a normal game, but at each miss grows angrier and stronger, only relaxing after hitting someone... and after the fifth miss you see the message "Nearsighter Berserker angrily cleans foggy glasses", fixing his miss rate to a normal one... only for next attack, hit or miss, to give the message "Nearsighter Berserker calms down, but glases are foggy again".

Or an enemy that starts with high evasion, but at every attack it evades you get the message "Deadly Dodger sacrifices a piece of armor to avoid damage", and indeed at each dodge defense lowers... until the message "Deadly Dodger sacrificed last piece of armor", kinda killing its increased evasion and damage resistance.

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#### HumanNinjaToo

##### The Cheerful Pessimist
Just keep in mind most players get pissed off seeing a lot of misses lol. (as you can tell from earlier posts)

LOL, I'm starting to question my own logic for using hit chances and evasion chances. I recently started playing Trails in the Sky again, because it went on sale on Steam. I haven't played this game in years. I am so frustrated with the amount of misses I am seeing in the beginning of the game.

The game does tell you that certain enemies need to be hit with an art because they are difficult to hit with weapon attacks, but I don't see any clues the game gives you as to which enemies these are. Currently, I'm thinking anything that looks like it is flying is one of these super evasive foes. Anyways, was playing for about an hour or so last night, and one battle had 5 misses in a row. I missed twice, one with each character; then the two enemies missed the next three attacks...

I don't remember being this frustrated when playing this game as a kid. Most battles with enemies as the same-ish level as the characters are filled with misses. At least one per battle is my current average, and I have to say, I don't like it.

#### Frostorm

##### []D[][]V[][]D
Rofl, for a society that's supposedly really good at math, the Japanese sure don't balance their RPGs very well. It almost feels like an afterthought to them...

#### Dr. Delibird

##### Also known as HRforges
I have this philosophy that I prefer when it comes to accuracy/hit chance in games and I understand that not everybody will agree so here we go.

There should always be a ratio of at least 3/4 of viable options to be 100% accurate (before calculating evasion chance). Your players should never be forced into using inaccurate moves to complete goals in your game. The 1/4 or fewer of moves that are not 100% accurate should be reserved for 2 distinct design decisions;
1. Giving the player gimmicky and completely unbalanced moves, the simplest example being a 15% accuracy check for a garunteed kill on any enemy including all bosses.
2. Characters/classes that are based on gambling or other similar themes. This is purely for thematic purposes and should never be the only character/class AND should never be forced into a party.

In both instances I describe I must stress that it's about giving players who enjoy rolling the dice the option to play that way WHILE not negatively affecting the gameplay experience of what is admittedly the majority of players. I think it's perfectly acceptable to omit chance in a game completely and chance should never be forced onto the player during the core gameplay.

#### jonthefox

##### Elementary School Teacher, 2x Cancer Survivor
The thing I'm wondering lately is: is it it the randomness itself that players don't like, or just the perception that they were punished due to randomness? What I mean is, there are plenty of examples of randomness that punishes you the player, but people either don't think about it or don't seem to mind. A classic example of this would be enemy target selection. Most games don't have a super advanced AI and often an enemy will use its ability on a target randomly; if it targets your character who is resistant to that effect, or has enough HP/Defense to easily withstand the damage, then you gain - but in the alternative, you lose. It was randomly decided. That's ok, yet missing 5% or 10% of your attacks is not? I'm not disagreeing here mind you; just curious about why this phenomenon exists.

#### kirbwarrior

##### Regular
In both instances I describe I must stress that it's about giving players who enjoy rolling the dice the option to play that way WHILE not negatively affecting the gameplay experience
I believe largely the same thing. Give people who want to gamble a great gamble without forcing people to get punished by the RNG.

if it targets your character who is resistant to that effect, or has enough HP/Defense to easily withstand the damage, then you gain - but in the alternative, you lose.
I'm not sure it's the same type of randomness. A large part of that is you can plan for it (party placement, equipment, etc) and deal with it as part of strategy (healing, precasting buffs, etc), but you can't really plan for suddenly losing a turn.

#### Kes

##### Regular
@jonthefox I think one part of the answer lies in the fact that the randomness you describe on target selection is on the part of the enemy and it is perfectly reasonable for you not to be 100% sure of what your opponent is going to do. You hope that it's going to target your tank, but it targets your already weakened healer. You deal with it. It's out of your control, precisely because it's an action of your enemy. A miss because of RNG, however, is on one of your own actions. It evokes a sense of outrage because what you thought you were controlling (your action) has been arbitrarily removed from you.

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