How can I make that the healer class is not required?

empresskiova

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In any games with the option, the healer will virtually always be included in the party.

Now, an alternative is to make dealing damage more important than healing it away. Perhaps there could be a limit to how long the battle lasts before the enemy starts calling in reinforcements? Say after 5 turns, if 3 enemies aren’t gone another one comes in. Just pace it out further for bosses.

If you take this approach, make certain that dealing damage is relatively easier than in other games, at least for the party. The healer can still have holy attack spells, or buffs, or whatever, just as long as they are usually slowing your party down offensively.
 

lianderson

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A simple solution, is to just lower the effectiveness of the healer.
 
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@lianderson
Unfortunately its not that simple. The weaker you make healing without adjusting the NEED to heal, the more mandatory you make having multiple 'healers'.

While not an RPG Heroes of the Storm is a good example of this. 'supports' in the game have always been 'powerful'; so much so that a team without a support is statistically far less likely to win against a team with one. There's only one reason, any damage the first team takes is mostly permanent but their opponents can just shrug it off thanks to the 'free' healing.

At some point the 'double support' meta started to appear. This new meta was considered extremely unfun even by the developers ,so to stop this they nerfed healing but that just did the opposite. 'Double support' only became more mandatory.

Why? its rather simple actually, due to the direction the game was going, 'long range burst damage' was just getting stronger and stronger. The more damage being dealt in one instant meant people needed more healing just to reach their opponents. but add in the nerfs to healing and that healer just can't throw out enough numbers alone.

Their final solution was to nerf everything about supports but their healing so a team with 2+ supports is statistically weaker . And that's when I stopped following the game.
 

lianderson

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@ShadowHawkDragon Understand that you're correct, and this post is not necessarily disagreeing with you.

What I am saying is... the game dev who created this thread... just wanted his healing class to be less important in his own game. A simple solution, would be lowering the effectiveness of the healer. It's not the only solution, but it is a simple one.
 

Soryuju

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@ShadowHawkDragon Understand that you're correct, and this post is not necessarily disagreeing with you.

What I am saying is... the game dev who created this thread... just wanted his healing class to be less important in his own game. A simple solution, would be lowering the effectiveness of the healer. It's not the only solution, but it is a simple one.
I think you could both be correct, but there may be some misunderstandings because we don’t know the details of the topic starter’s specific system. If there’s only one possible healer in combat at any time, then lowering their effectiveness is a straightforward and reasonable solution. But if multiple party members have skills which can heal the party, or you have something like a class change system where you can tailor each party member’s role to your liking, it gets more complicated. As soon as one healer can’t keep up with the incoming damage, the player is likely to just bring in a second one. Then your attempt to reduce the importance of healing has backfired on you, because you’ve potentially doubled the amount of characters players are devoting to healing.

Stacking healers isn’t the only option players have, since they could try to add another damage dealer to end fights more quickly, but lots of players are going to try to keep the healer archetype in their parties out of preference, habit, comfort, etc. Many will also favor safer, slower wins unless they’re sure they can consistently wipe out enemies before those enemies can do any significant damage (at which point either the player is overleveled, or you may need to reconsider your balancing). This is especially true if they’re not healed automatically between normal encounters, or if they’re going in to fight a long boss battle.

In a system where the player can bring on more healers when the first one isn’t keeping up well with incoming damage, you’d have to adjust lots of other aspects of your combat in order to discourage heal stacking. Examples would be setting diminishing returns on heals, providing other means of readily-available damage mitigation, and adjusting the average length of various encounters.
 

Vincent Chu

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You can set conditional branches for the troop encounter events that checks whether a healer is in the party or not and design two different battles that suit each case. In other words, you can make it so that you don't need a healer if you don't have one but you need one if you have one.

Edit:
Also, you can have drain attacks.
 

Eschaton

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I'm inclined to say that it's really as simple as not having a healer class and making your healing items high-powered to compensate.
 

Aesica

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Now, an alternative is to make dealing damage more important than healing it away.
This is actually a very good point. I can't believe I actually forgot about it, but Cthulhu Saves the World (not an RM game, but still an RPG, and one that easily could've been made with RM) uses an interesting approach, in that each round, the enemies get stronger and stronger. So sure, the player could choose to include a healer in their party, and they still might. However, since having the extra damage means not only taking less damage because things die faster, but also less damage because the enemies can't build up their strength, that might be an option for a no-healers-necessary world.

Note that you'd of course need to mix that in with decently-available consumables, self-healing/drain abilities, etc, but maybe it could work with a lot of balancing effort.
 

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@Aesica I think Cthulhu Saves the World is the only game with increasingly strong enemies which has pulled it off successfully, at least of the games I've played. I might be mis-remembering because it's ages since I played it, but even their earlier game Breath of Death VII had some balancing issues. It requires a lot more balancing skill, and a very good allocation of character skills as well. You would have to have quite a bit of experience to manage this, though if someone can, it makes for a satisfying player experience, imo.
 
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mmgfrcs

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I'm inclined to say that it's really as simple as not having a healer class and making your healing items high-powered to compensate.
A simple solution, would be lowering the effectiveness of the healer. It's not the only solution, but it is a simple one
Now, an alternative is to make dealing damage more important than healing it away
While I love having easy solutions to a complicated problem, and this is all plausible solutions, it's easier said than done IMO. There's a reason why healers exist after all, and there's a reason why players tend to use them even if there's no need to: it always works both ways. For developers, it's usually used as a safeguard. An RPG game can be unbalanced not because of the developer messing around, but because of developer oversight. There's a tight boundary between balanced and unbalanced in a single battle after all, and healing help to widen the gaps of error. Without it, you would have control each battle tightly, and adding the fact that the party can be in a lot of possible combinations (Actors, Equipments, Items, etc.), the job became tedious.

For the players, it also acts as a safeguard. If a strategy fails, heal up and try again. If you slip a move, heal up and try again. The strategy of dealing damage, survive, heal, rinse and repeat exist because it's effective against most enemies games usually throw to players. That's why the trinity exists - tank, DPS, support: because it's generally effective. It destroys creativity and make the game boring, sure, but... it's a single player game anyway. "You play it the way you wanted to play, not the way the developer wants you to play".

So how do we break it? Think the opposite and review the consequences. Have another mean of a safeguard (heal at end of battle, for example), and balance accordingly. However, "Game mechanics exists because of the game, not the other way around". Don't just put mechanics to do this. Make it somewhat explained in-game.
 

lianderson

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Everyone on this thread is correct in at least their own way. However, looking at the date, I don't think the op is still looking for an answer.

So everyone, get back to work on your games. *crack whip* Break time's over.
 

Darth Equus

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You could also take a page from Legend of Dragoon or Xenosaga III and have each character forfeit a turn or two in exchange for recovering HP.
 

Countyoungblood

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I'm inclined to say that it's really as simple as not having a healer class and making your healing items high-powered to compensate.
Agreed, lots of fuss over nothing.

Healing spells equate into practical hp.
When either sides hp hits zero they die. The practical answer is to lower monster hp or raise player hp. Raising or lowering attack/defence power is the same thing.
 

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