How do you feel about LGBT characters in games?

[Makio-Kuta]

Not only that, just because we're talking about games having more inclusive casts, doesn't mean we're saying EVERY game now has to be a romance game or include romance.  (also, man I'm volleying hard for more aromantic characters. That's not going to give us more romance ;D )


Romance has been a part of storytelling for A LONG TIME and game's tell stories. Not every story has romance, and not every game has romance. All we're really wishing here is that of the existing quota of games that DO have romantic elements in their stories consider including queer romances. It's not like we're saying, "I sure wish Pacman had some gay romance." we're wishing that the stories that already planned to have romance branch out a little from their comfortable little norm.

 

[JosephSeraph]

It was. You can see at the examples given (Chrono Trigger and Earthbound) and not only restricted to jRPG (Baldur's Gate and Wizardry are examples of wRPG that doesn't have romance). I can't be certain but romance in RPG came alongside in Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

umm...

 

[Ms Littlefish]

I think it's almost a misnomer to call cheese and corn "bad." It's just different. A lot less serious. I like to laugh, smile, and be entertained. I don't necessarily need my mind blown, be in a torrent of tears, or be left pondering my existence every time I consume a piece of media.


A lot of games are definitely darker, grittier, and more serious than others. More reflective of reality. But if that's what "has" to be done then I guess count me out of writing entirely. I really like things that are light-hearted, over-the-top, ridiculous, and unapologetically goofy. Sometimes a trashy beach book or a Lifetime movie is the chicken soup the soul needs. I rarely like taking things seriously. Cheese isn't for everyone. But neither is 50 Shades of Sepia.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

@Ms Littlefish Please make a game called 50 Shades of Sepia. pffffffttt

 

[Tuomo L]

Cloud isn't a crossdresser, he wore the dress because of a plot point. It was a comical scene and it was idea that Aeris had, not Cloud.

 

[trouble time]

I think it's almost a misnomer to call cheese and corn "bad." It's just different. A lot less serious. I like to laugh, smile, and be entertained. I don't necessarily need my mind blown, be in a torrent of tears, or be left pondering my existence every time I consume a piece of media.


A lot of games are definitely darker, grittier, and more serious than others. More reflective of reality. But if that's what "has" to be done then I guess count me out of writing entirely. I really like things that are light-hearted, over-the-top, ridiculous, and unapologetically goofy. Sometimes a trashy beach book or a Lifetime movie is the chicken soup the soul needs. I rarely like taking things seriously. Cheese isn't for everyone. But neither is 50 Shades of Sepia.

I think cheese is neccesarially bad, the good version of cheese would be being over the top or hammy, I think cheese is unintentional, but that's jsut how I've always defined it.

 

[Tuomo L]

You know, this whole talk about reducing market and making it not as approachable if you have any LGBT people, let me show you someone.

This is Birdo. You may know her from crap ton of Nintendo games. She's also arguably the first transsexual of the gaming world, as well as the most known one. Even though it mentions that Birdo is actually a male, they prefer to be called "Birdetta" and they wear bow and makeup and wants to be identified as a female and not male.

Ignoring that they accidentally called him Ostro for some reason, it's pretty solid proof.


This game only sold like only 10 million copies, so I guess acoarding to some of you people, this game would have sold like 50 million had it not had the transsexual dinosaur in it?


Also on the official Japanese site for Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, the description for Catherine (Japanese name for Birdo) states "Catherine appears to be Yoshi's girlfriend... or does that mean boyfriend!?" (「ヨッシーの彼女に見えて実は彼氏!?」


So yes, Birdo is a m-t-f tran who has a technically a gay relationship with Yoshi.

 

[JosephSeraph]

wait, if birdetta is a girl she's in a ~straight~ relationship with yoshi from what i can see, right?

 

[Tuomo L]

wait, if birdetta is a girl she's in a ~straight~ relationship with yoshi from what i can see, right?

Birdetta is a trans man though, he just identifies as a female. Just like in a real world if trans man and "normal" man are together in a relationship, it's still technically a rainbow relationship and would be registered as one if they were to register as a couple in a relationship living together.



It has to do with their personal information and birth record and such because Birdo or Birdetta if you prefer, will be a trans male on papers, not female.



That may sound really harsh but it really isn't, that's just the way law and registry goes.  The only true way to be considered a straight relationship is to go through changing your sex designation which is a very lengthy and money and time consuming process. It differs based on location but during the process of going through the sex designation change forms and procedure, the trans would still be in a rainbow relationship.

 

[JosephSeraph]

no, she's not a trans man,


and if a trans man and a cis man are together, it is a gay relationship, no surprise there.

 

[Cvrtis]

Last variant. You can have a sex with anybody, but have a conscience - do not show to others your intimate life. I am not interested, how and with whom you sleep. I'm surprised how much a person needs to be depraved to be interested in what is going on in someone else's bed.

 

[Tuomo L]

Last variant. You can have a sex with anybody, but have a conscience - do not show to others your intimate life. I am not interested, how and with whom you sleep. I'm surprised how much a person needs to be depraved to be interested in what is going on in someone else's bed.

Um, there's a lot more than just sex to a relationship you know. Or do you when you see female and male in a relationship, immediatly think about their sex life too?

 

[Cvrtis]

Um, there's a lot more than just sex to a relationship you know. Or do you when you see female and male in a relationship, immediatly think about their sex life too?

I do not understand Your question.


I understand that nature has created man and woman not for fun.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

But Chrono Trigger does have romance involved. Not in depth, but its there, at least for some endings (Chrono and Marle). Dragon Quest V had a whole who will you marry arc. Dragon Quest IV had the obviously smitten Cristo/Kiryl pining after Alena. Dragon Quest I had the hero and the princess. Romance in games is ooooold. And that is because romance is a trope used in tons of stories.


And why SHOULDN'T some of those be male male. Or female female. Or other other. Or male other. or female other. or whatever other combination of whatever anyone feels they are. (Note: Other does NOT include trans. A transman is male, a transwoman is female. other is to include those who are gender non-binary).


... I just realized that making two of my dude main characters in a project exlovers would add tons and tons of extra layers to their interactions, and FINALLY explain how a few things happened. Huh.

 

[JosephSeraph]

oh yeah, i had totally forgotten










chrono / marle, but more interestingly (they're so cuuuuute <3) kino/ayla


(obvious spoilers so don't watch if you havent beat)

 

[Another Ned]

For some reason, I'm slightly scared of discussions so I pondered for a long time whether to participate in this thread but this post has been skulking about my mind for several days now so... here.


I'm definitely for more of them. To me, it's less a question of "why?" than one of "why not?".


I don't want to repeat (too much) of what I've read has already been said, only that:
In addition to representation by including characters of different orientations/genders/otherIdentityAspects, making people more aware of the fact that there are lots of people whose idea of happiness might look slightly different from their own would be nice.
Personal example: I'm kind of dreaming of the day when, after I had to, for some reason, reiterate that I'm not interested in anyone romantically (aro/ace seems the label that describes me best), that person simply shrugs an "okay", instead of getting that (to me) annoying look of sympathy in their eyes, stating "Oooh, the Right One will wait for you somewhere don't worry I'm sure of it", simply because they've never encountered someone like that in life or media before. .__."


My own characters and world building reflect my want of more of such characters.


It's not what defines the characters as their One Defining Trait (that'd be boring, among other things), usually isn't even obvious from moment 1, but it may come up in party banter, or during that awkward moment when the party learns that a party members' exes have named their firstborn child after him, simply because it's part of them and their lives.



I also create my settings generally (generally because there always will be people with different opinions no matter the culture they grew up in) so it's not that big of a deal to be a LGBTA+AllTheLettersI'veForgottenOrDidn'tKnowAbout person there and it could still lead to interesting stories/side stories/backstories for people on that ... is spectrum the right word?, despite it being considered "normal" there. Plus, I can imagine that, for example, being a transman wanting to transition isn't a walk in the park even if he wouldn't get negative responses to it from a culture-wide point of view. Especially if he had to think about this while at the same time keeping his best friend out of trouble, studying for exams, and saving the world. Even more so if he's from a family of seafarers, the only heir, and there's a strong, cultural belief that letting men on ships invites bad luck (just think of the quest potential! He'd have to talk to people and search old archives to find out an accepted way to ward off bad luck if he has to leave the place by sea for example, and I should really stop expanding on that example before I end up with another project vying for my attention).


I feel like I can't really express what I'm trying to say right now, it's just... Those are people, and they might be different in several aspects from me, and I like putting different people in stories. Including those that happen to be on another "spot" than I am on the orientation/gender/etc. identity multidimensional... object..., so I used a lot of words to say that I'm comfortable with such characters, want more of them and that I'm inexperienced in trying to state a point.


Okay self, close your eyes and press Submit Reply, and stop worrying that you've forgotten anything.


Also, I'm sorry if I mixed up terms.

 

[ash55]

Saw this a while ago, forgot to post.

"how comfortable would you feel about these sorts of characters in the games you play?"
It baffles me why someone would be uncomfortable with it.

"Does their existance enrich the game universe to you? Does it add to the characterization? "
This is the most important question IMO because that's what it all comes down to. Story.

For example, in a medieval setting where gay people may even be put to death, it is a HUGE part of a character's story if they're in a forbidden relationship. There are many elements to explore there. Paranoia and secrecy? Openness and bravery? Forbidden love is the crux of Romeo and Juliet. That is the source for the drama and conflict in that particular story. Obviously the source of drama is the warring families, but perhaps having the entire world shun your relationship would be an even greater source.

These sorts of things can really be central to a character. Tyrion Lannister's dwarfism in ASOIAF is another really essential character trait. It's great for people with dwarfism to see such an epic character to relate to, but that's not why he's a dwarf. Most importantly (IMO), it's great storytelling. Everyone, tall or short, can relate to Tyrion since he's not just a dwarf, he's an underdog. He's shunned by a cruel and misunderstanding world, and we root for him because of that (he's also not a wholly good character too which makes him even more fascinating).

There's nothing wrong with adding gay characters just for the sake of having gay characters either TBH. Even when it's almost completely irrelevant to everything. It can simply make the world richer and more believable because our real world has gay characters too. With that said, I think that currently there's a little too much demand for creating a "checklist of diversity" in media (which has noble intentions but I fear could lead to token characters). We need to see gay people included in stories, rather than stories that happen to include gay people, if that makes sense...?

So I guess TL;DR. Gay characters are a great idea. Great gay characters are a greater idea. 

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Ugh,


See, I realize something. Its part of the whole reason I hate the aversion to certain kinds of characters in fiction.


Imagine that people hated someone like you in fiction. Every time there was someone like you, people got upset about it. People threw hissy fits. People talked about how it was destroying morals, etc.


And then, slowly, because you realize that people are disgusted by people like you in fiction... they are disgusted by people like you. And you start to hide it. Especially in certain areas of your life, like your job. It doesn't come up unless its relevant, and even then, you are reticent to state it outright. You dance around it. You worry that if people know for sure, there could be consequences.


Take that for what you will.

 

[Chrispy]

I do not understand Your question.


I understand that nature has created man and woman not for fun.

We can't swim across the ocean because nature created us that way. "Well, @#$@ you ocean, I built a boat!"


Gravity keeps us on Earth because nature created us that way. "Well, (!*# you gravity, I built a plane!"


Gravity comes back laughing when the plane breaks. "Well, $!&!* you again Gravity, I made a parachute!"


Humans can't live in the cold because nature didn't give us fur. "Well. @$# you cold, I killed your furry animals to make a coat and cut own a bunch of trees to make a house!"


Man and Woman were created by nature to create more men and women. "!#($ that, this feels good, wanna go again?"


Humans tend to give nature the middle finger during every moment of their lives at just about everything. If LGBT stuff is really against nature, all of society is going to eventually ignore it, just like everything else.

 

[Omnimental]

In my personal preference, non-straight relationships should be included in games in direct proportion to the amount of sexual content in the game. If everyone's a chaste hero, and nothing other than friendship is ever depicted? Doesn't matter if any of the characters are gay, straight, or something else. There's no reason to bring it up, and you may as well let the player draw their own conclusions. In a relationship/sex heavy game? Yeah, inclusion of GSM content would be awesome. In the middle zone where the vast majority of character driven games are? Do whatever you think makes for a richer world. Don't make it jarring, but mesh it smoothly into the narrative. Just like every aspect of the world. If the game doesn't have a focus on GSM issues, then don't make the character's sexual/gender identity a focus. There's a lot to be said for presenting GSM characters as just another person in your world. As somebody else said earlier in the thread, make GSM characters. not GSM characters.


Just no tokenism, please.


(Also, assuming people know GSM=Gender/Sexual Minority. If not, now you do. Woohoo for learning things.)