How do you make an interesting fantasy race?

watermark

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So there's two problems with making a fantasy race:

PROBLEM 1: Elves are just humans with pointy ears.

Essentially, and we do see this in a lot of games, we see that besides having different combat stats, an elven character is nearly indistinguishable from a human character in behavior and dialogue. The same can be said about dwarves, hobbits, and maybe even orcs. They really are just different kinds of humans rather than something alien. So does this make them uninteresting?

PROBLEM 2: Defining a race by traits is kinda racist.

The problem with defining a race based on specific traits, such as how all dwarves are industrious, hardy fighters, is the racist and stereotype trap. It's like saying for example that all Irish like to drink. Racist views could be problematic. I remember reading David Edding's Belgariad series. It's a great fantasy series. I think the whole series is racist, but if you can overlook that part, it's good reading. It's most obvious when many times in the series, the main wizard Belgarath (he's like the Gandalf character in the series) mentions how all Murgos (one of the human races) are murderers and evil doers and whatnot. And actually all Murgos you meet in the series are in fact all bad people.

I find it funny that it bothers me if he says that all Murgos are murderers, but it does not if I substitute it with "All ORCS are murderers." It's weird. Anyone know what I mean?

Anyway, so how would you go about making an interesting fantasy race considering the two problems mentioned above?
 

Milennin

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The first problem is only a problem because you already limit yourself by thinking you should design and write them the same you see elsewhere. If you think they're boring because they look like humans, make them not look like humans. If you think they're boring because they behave like humans, make them behave differently.

Problem 2 is the dumbest thing ever, because how is a made-up race in a fantasy setting going to be affected over having traits assigned to them in the first place? But if you still think that's a problem, you could just write your own races without making them fall into stereo-types?

Not seeing any problems here. Everything can be fixed right away by how you decide to design and write your races, if you believe they are problems worth fixing.
 

MoonBunny

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Problem 1: Most fantasy settings give the respective humanoid races a culture and language. A lot of them may be similar in execution, but each makes them unique from another story or franchise. Building a culture for your fantasy race should be a given

Problem 2: I don't get bothered over fictional racism, honestly. Look at Warhammer Fantasy & 40k, Elder Scrolls, D&D, and such like it. Cultures clash and the races can be "stereotypes"... but it's all a game. Besides, it would be pretty jarring to make a typical fantasy race into something that could be seen as opposite of what ends up being typical, though it can work if executed well.

But it's odd for you to post both of these. You don't want fantasy races to be bland, but you're afraid of them being "racist" by giving them certain traits. You either have bland reskins, or you have a race that might be called "problematic". I wouldn't call it impossible to avoid both of those, but instead I think it would require a great deal of time and effort. Perhaps more than is needed for a tale of whimsy and magic, don't you think?
 

CrocPirate

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For the 2nd problem I think it would help that the player/reader see characters from that race that may not align with the stereotype of the race. Also to show the player where the race is coming from with their believes.

For example, let's say that you have a race called Flipadoos. And the stereotypes of Flipadoos are that they are a cold-hearted, stuck up people that horde their super technology and don't share it with other races. Also it would seem that this race values logic over emotion or connections with others.
Some time during the story, the party meets a Flipadoo named Emmy. Emmy (and some other Flipadoos) doesn't agree with the ruling elite of their kind that they should stay out of the pending war and lend their aid and tech to the other races to help them defeat the Dark Lord (or whatever).
However as the party slowly learns about the Flipadoos' history, they discover that in the past Flipadoos tried to help other races in the past, but:
1. It always backfires on them.
2. For them, it would seem that the other races are constantly at war with one other.
These past experiences cause some of the Flipadoos to slowly develop an attitude that other races are not worth their time. But with the help of Emmy and the party, the Flipadoo elite cautiously decides to help the world defeat the Dark Lord.

This is a long winded way to say that adding depth to a race AND the individuals of said race may help you avoid the "Stereotype Trap."
Remember, no one group is a monolith. Even people who share the same values and cultural identity disagree with each other.
Also cultures form certain ways FOR A REASON. Whether it's for religious reasons, political reasons, social-economic reasons, or just plain survival; most of the times, a combination of all four! Nothing that is done in a society is born out of a vacuum or that people within that society are genetically predisposed to doing certain things. (Unless it's a hivemind situation, but that's just being pedantic...)

As for your 1st problem, I think people do the whole "Human-but-slightly-different" thing when creating other races as a matter of convenience. Whether it's easier to sprite/describe/or they simply don't have the budget to make anything too outlandish. (*cough* Star Trek *cough*.) It's also "easier" (or sometimes lazy) for some people to make a fantasy race based entirely around one aspect of the human condition. Basically, as a way for the author to address a certain perceived problem within their society or, on rare occasions, to say that humans should aspire to be like the fantasy race.

*shrugs*

But that's just my opinion.
 

The Stranger

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I read a book on world building years ago which talked about the difference between a race and fantastical creatures. Can't remember it in great detail, but it said something about races, as we typically imagine them, are a fantastical creature + an assocoiated civilisation. A gryphon is just a creature until you have more than one and give it a society and civ.

The book also spoke about appearances not mattering when it comes to this sort of thing, and you could take humans, strip them of their civs, languages, etc, and turn them into mindless beasts if you wanted.

How would you go about making Elves and Dwarves different than humans? I mean, they're both humanoid in form. Beyond a few different physical characteristics (long lived Elves, etc), they are just humans; they can even reproduce with humans in many works of fiction. The easiest way is to give them a civ, a culture, that's similar to ours but also somewhat different.

Do they have a single faith or many?
Do they have many nations with different laws and customs?
Where did they originate?
Did they evolve from something else, or were they created as is?
How has their environment shaped them as a people and as a civ?
How do they record information? (They might not have any records at all, and pass things down orally or through some other means)
How do they communicate?
How is their society structured?

There's a lot of questions you can ask yourself when defining both the race itself and any associated cultures and civs.

So, you could easily take a real (living or dead) human civ and culture, using it wholesale or just as a template for your fantasy race (you could even try mixing different cultures), or you could try to build everything from the ground up. There's merits to both, neither is right or wrong.

Originally, these beings were supernatural in origin (this is likely the source for the racial traits of those fantasy races inspired by folklore) and didn't really need to be understood to this degree, they simply existed. I mean, you can go this route too if it makes sense in your setting.

Have you ever played Stellaris? In that, alien empires are randomly generated (whole species and civs), but none of them feel alien. Outside of their appearances and weird names, they're just variations of human ideologies. It's kinda boring, to be honest, but it also might be fairly realistic when you think about it. A monarch has many different titles even amongst the countless human civs that have existed, but they've all been monarchs. It'd make sense that the same would be fairly true for aliens. Unless the biology of the alien, or fantasy race in this case, is so different that it influences how their society has taken shape, then they'll probably feel like humans in all but name.

As for your second point, defining things by traits is what we do all of the time; sometimes positive traits, sometimes negative. It's how we try to make sense of things, to categorise things. While entire races\species might not have defining traits (though I'd argue they do have defining traits) on the level of "they're all artistic", a civilisation or nation might have several defining traits. A nation might be warlike, imperialistic, theocratic, etc. In fact, you can use positive and negative traits and descriptions to convey how the peoples of your setting view a particular group. I mean, it'd certainly let the player know a bit about the history of your world and its people without a boring info dump.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with using fantasy racism in your world and stories. Part of fleshing out a fantastical race is, unless you've created some sort of hive mind, individuality. People have biases, they have experiences, and those things can shape both positive and negative beliefs and their perception of things. Sometimes it's not even this deep, and the author just wanted a group for both you and the characters to despise. There's nothing wrong with this, in my opinion.
 
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Finnuval

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It's like saying for example that all Irish like to drink
Actually that's discrimination based on nationality not racisme... All Red haired ppl like to drink would be racism.

In fantasy settings we actually see more racism all the time as there we actually divide groups of ppl based on physical traits instead of cultural ones.

So there also lies the answer. You wanting to change them physically to set them apart from humans... Well that actually is more racism...

Not that i am saying discrimination is better then racism but especially in this Day and age i think its important to keep the waters clear xD

As for how to make fantasy races interesting? Well there are Many ways but why stick with the races we all know and love then?

PS: all orcs (or whatever) are murderous is only racism when 1) being murderous is a racial trait (which it hardly ever is) or 2) it isnt true. If It is true its like saying all White ppl are White... That's not racisme, its true.

Your own example of dwarbes being industrious isnt racism either its a cultural bias. All dwarves are short isnt racism either it's true.
All dwarves are industrious BECAUSE they are short - that would be racism but also make no sense whatsoever.
 
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The Stranger

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As for how to make fantasy races interesting? Well there are Many ways but why stick with the races we all know and love then?

I think this is a very important point. When people want Elves and Dwarves, they want recognisable Elves and Dwarves. It's fine to put your own spin on things, but if you deviate too much it's no longer the same thing, it becomes unrecognisable. Suddenly, your Elves and your Dwarves aren't actually what you say they are.

Dragon Age put its own spin on Elves and Dwarves, but you could still recognise them as Elves and Dwarves. Divinity Original Sin did the same, but they still kinda feel like what people expect of Elves and Dwarves.

Nothing wrong with making your own fantasy race, though.
 

Dev_With_Coffee

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1: I thought your point was valid, but let's face it, maybe it's Orlando Bloom's fault (kidding).
All of these races were created based on mythology and probably did not even have these names.
The fact that they look so much like humans is precisely because social interaction is easier. For example, the legend of the werewolf, exists in several places (different continents), its greatest characteristic being the humanoid and possibly a human being who undergoes a metamorphosis.
In several countries, there are popular tales of humanoid creatures with different characteristics and powers, even the "visiting" aliens are humanoid instead of giant squid with telekinesis and telepathy.

2: In fact, most of your problems may have originated from the race, but there are also internal factions, such as the separation of black elves who come to serve some different god. If you remove self-preservation from the culture and race of these creatures, 3/5 of the wars would not exist and that would end the stories.
In books, in games, we do not see a group of characters formed by a single race, because the authors are based precisely on the real world and on the diversity that makes everything more interesting, our problems in general have not changed much since the first great civilizations.

Extra notes:
Hardly anyone would be able to create a story where all the characters were different types and shapes of creatures (8 legs, very large, very small) and still managed to have a social interaction without seeming chaos, even if linear.
(Rick and Morty don't make the list)
 
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watermark

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These are some great points people are making. These discussions remind me that you could even make original traits and discrimination a unique feature in your world by describing how people in that world react to it.

An example that comes to mind is Sanderson's Stormlight Archives. In that series, people are not discriminated based on the color of their skin, but rather by the color of their eyes. The lighter eyed people get treated better and have higher status. When you first read that, you will go "That's ridiculous! Why would you discriminate base on eye color?" Ah, but it makes you think then why would you discriminate based on skin color?

You could also introduce alien cultural customs. Again, in Stormlight women showing one of their hands (forgot which one) is like going topless in our society. And the author shows characters blushing and getting flustered when this happens. Whereas if the author just did topless scenes, it would be like fan service in anime: titilating at the moment but easily forgetable. It wouldn't be a unique aspect of your story that players will remember.

Like @Finnuval mentioned, some things are true...to a race or we could even say to a species.

Can you make a tiger vegetarian? No, it would die.
Can you make a vampire not drink blood? You could make them mope and glitter and do all sorts of things, but at the end of the day they need their juice. So saying all vampires like blood isn't racist.

In that sense, we can probably blueprint a fantasy race based on their physical needs, cultural biases, and how they are perceived in the world by other races.
 
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Htlaets

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Problem 2 is only a problem if you force personality traits, but further, we're talking different species rather than different races.

IMO the best way to do races isn't to say "they're like humans with pointy ears" or "Because they're X race they have Y personality" but rather creating a formula based on several factors.

Lifespan should have an effect on how the character sees personal relationships, rates of maturity, necessity to act, and education.

For example, how would someone that lives hundreds of years view marriage to a single partner for life? Frankly, I'd be horrified by the thought that I'd have to spend hundreds or thousands of years loving a single person. They'd probably view romantic relationships as more of a phase. After a few relationships they may start to place less value on such relationships.

And, if you have hundreds or thousands of years of life ahead of you, society would also view you as a child for far longer and you'd be in far less of a rush to mature. Someone that's lived an exceedingly long time has probably seen all sorts of major events come and go without incident, so they'll be in less of a hurry to take actions to prevent conflict, since they've seen it all before, this will effect their politics.

Also, consider for a moment, if the ruling class of today were 700 year olds from the middle ages. While I doubt their mindset would stay completely stuck in middle aged ideals, they'd certainly be very conservative and society itself would be more similar to how it was when they were young. Having old blood as leadership would lead to very slow cultural progress.

Alternatively, a species that breeds quickly but only lives for say... 20 years would have numerous problems by default. Education would be at a minimum since there are no elders to teach young people, and children would far outnumber adults. By default, they'd have to find things to consume just to survive, which would probably lead to large amounts of conflicts with other races.

Furthermore, a species that can do strenuous tasks with ease because of natural strength will have less use for technology that makes these tasks easier. It doesn't mean they're naturally dumber, it's just that "necessity is the mother of invention" and all that jazz and since they don't need a pulley/lever to lift a massive weight without breaking their back, they're less likely to look into it. Sure, they could use technology that they see other races using to make life mildly easier, but it'd by no means be a priority for them to use it. Individually members of this race could form an interest in technology, but that wouldn't be because of necessity.

And so on and so forth.
 

watermark

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For example, how would someone that lives hundreds of years view marriage to a single partner for life?
Oh, I don't think we need hundreds. As evidenced by ol' Bill recently, just a few decades is enough. XD

There's even this new trend of "conscious uncoupling" which is basically the nice version of divorce. All of this because we are all living healthy lives into our 60s, whereas a few decades ago most of us die before 50. We may all reach immortality at the rate science is going.

Which should make an elven social quite interesting: See over there is my wife from 500 years ago. And talking to her is my wife from the dawn age to sometime in the second age...wait...aren't you like my great grandson?

I also agree that necessity is the mother of invention. Why are dwarves so good with rocks and smithing? Well, if you lived in a cave all your life, naturally you would face more problems with rocks that you have to find solutions around rather than an elf who lives with trees. You get good with what you face. So if they ran a fantasy Masterchef, the elves would probably have the best vegetarian dishes while the dwarves would be masters of fungi cooking.
 

The Stranger

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@watermark In my sci-fi game, one of the major species, the Yosei, don't marry at all. The females of the species might have many male concubines and a sort of primary concubine to reproduce with; similar to kings and emperors in certain cultures having a wife and a load of concubines. I guess this reproductive partner would be the closest to a spouse. Caste and bloodline are important to them, so they don't reproduce with just anyone, and mates are carefully selected; everyone wants a daughter with certain traits so she can be chosen for special schooling and other privileges. It's also punishable under law to "poach" the concubines belonging to others, though this really only applies to those of higher castes.

So, they live in a society in which sex is very casual, a form of entertainment, but reproduction is very rigid and strict, even regulated depending on the caste. The Empress, the Sun Goddess, can only ever reproduce once before simply dying, so her choice of mate is very strict; it's not even chosen by her but by her priestesses. The child of the empress is always another female, and basically grows to become the same as her mother; almost as if the spirit of the Sun Goddess simply passes on into the baby.

Males and females also tend live very segregated lives, at least in the upper echelons of society. This leads to a lot of intimate same sex relationships, though most tend to be more emotional companionship rather than purely sex based. At the bottom of society things are more mixed, but there's still a fair bit of segregation and gender roles.

TBH, I'm having a lot of fun creating these alien civilisations.
 
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Elissiaro

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For example, how would someone that lives hundreds of years view marriage to a single partner for life? Frankly, I'd be horrified by the thought that I'd have to spend hundreds or thousands of years loving a single person. They'd probably view romantic relationships as more of a phase. After a few relationships they may start to place less value on such relationships.
Or alternatively, they love and marry for life, and it's therefore beyond devastating to the people around them, and maybe even themselves, if they get involved with someone outside their race/species.

Friendship with shorter lived races would probably be out of the question for anyone unmarried.
Because that can grow into something more, and then their lives would be basically ruined.
 

Htlaets

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@watermark Oh, yeah, I mean, divorce rate is, what, 50%?

Either case, I wonder about the master chef thing. Stereotypical wood elves live in concert with nature in forests. You never see them actually farming, just chilling in the woods in their treehouses. Seems like any race that does mass agricultural would have a greater variety of vegetarian dishes from that angle. Then again, I've seen the old "Elves physically can't eat meat" trope as well, which can circle around and make that make more sense.

For Dwarves, the question becomes, what makes them hang out underground? Variety of media has come up with a lot of different explanations.

LOTR Dwarves were created by a god that was too impatient to wait his turn for making a race and made the dwarves. The god that was supposed to make the Elves and humans got PO'd and banished the dwarves to live underground until they got done making the Elves and Humans. Basically, they developed underground because the gods didn't want anybody on the surface until they finished patching in their favorite races.

There's other explanations for other dwarves, such as being born from rock giving them an affinity for living within it.

I think the important thing is to have an explanation at all.

@Elissiaro That's a possible angle if you're trying to make their personality's specifically unhuman. I've loved plenty of media with the "long lived species is afraid of getting close to short lived one because they view love as a super long term thing and they'll be left heartbroken" line, but I feel like the opposite is done less often. I suppose you have the Asari from Mass Effect as a prominent example of the opposite approach, though I'm having difficulty naming others.

Either way, having a race with emotional uniformity over centuries does tickle that "wow they're really alien" vibe though, that often is hard to continuously maintain for the media that uses it since they pretty often have these same species show very human interactions with other people with very human reactions to things in other subjects.

It's never something that's a deal-breaker story-wise for me, but it always feels like a negative when a work only has a species have Orange and Blue morality for very specific things but then act perfectly human otherwise. I say this, but I do love plenty of works that fail to follow through with that type of thing, though it's a massive plus when they manage it.
 

TheoAllen

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PROBLEM 1: Elves are just humans with pointy ears.
Are you expecting fantasy races to be like Stellaris Species?

It can be a problem or not a problem depending on how you view it. Having similar to humans or at least humanoid simplified a lot of things and it is easier to digest the concept. And it is closer to a real-life counterpart. Does this make it uninteresting? maybe.

It does lack a sense of wonder in a fantasy setting of course. And probably this is the one that you meant. And I find it funny that most diverse species usually found in science fiction, especially in a space-punk setting rather than middle-earth-like fantasy. But as Milennin said, to solve it is just as simple as make them different of course and you can do it if you want to.

I personally don't find it a problem at all. it is like a staple I would expect if I'm going to consume entertainment media when they use a fantasy setting. There must be an elf, a dragon, and other fantasy races unless they have something different.

PROBLEM 2: Defining a race by traits is kinda racist.
Now, don't go into the extra credit route.
Some people (here, here, and many more you can search on youtube) absolutely hate extra credit for that.

Those videos I linked could explain better what I have in mind rather than if I wrote it here.
 

ALHC7

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There's even this new trend of "conscious uncoupling" which is basically the nice version of divorce. All of this because we are all living healthy lives into our 60s, whereas a few decades ago most of us die before 50. We may all reach immortality at the rate science is going.
The marriage is a ceremony of power, nothing else. So if in that race some people have more power than other, I'm sure the ones with power will be attracted together to perpetuate that power, doesn't matter who you have beside if you have the power for all your life.

The thought about the romantic marriage is something rlly new, even in the 19th century ppl with power made arrangements when their children was too young.
 

gstv87

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write *the world*, put *the races* on it, hit "simulate", fast forward a couple of centuries, and collect the data.

write the universe, and have it develop the races.
not the other way around

For Dwarves, the question becomes, what makes them hang out underground?
for me, it's the Dark Elves who live underground.
why? because they screwed up and were banished, and then they figured "hey, it's hard to invade us, down here.... let's stay!"
 
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hosercanadian

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Another option not discussed is to fully embrace the racism. In the game I am working on right now the dwarves have a solid parallel to both the Jewish and Roma people in Europe in the early Renaissance. They are treated as outsiders, blamed for numerous problems and racism is blatant and obvious. Many of the stereotypes are just that: not all dwarves are greedy or expert craftsmen. There are numerous folktales about wealthy dwarves and fantastical stories about them having an empire, but the true history has been lost. Dwarves are wanderers or live in ghettos in human settlements or have their own exclusive communities.

One of the main characters is a dwarf and his back story slowly reveals he is an outlaw on the run for insurrection. The racism is very blatant and an under-current throughout the game.

I draw on my experience with social psychology and sociology to define the cultures (including the non-human cultures). This gives the behaviour and traits that “define” the race, especially when you add on the layer of how outsiders see it and why.
 

watermark

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The deliberate use of "racism" as brought up by @hosercanadian can tie into combat as well.

Many fantasy games are already "racist" in character select when they dictate that elves have more intelligence and magic power while orcs have higher brute strength and constitution. So naturally more players would have elven wizards and orc fighters in their teams because it's advantageous.

Some games even disallow some races to use certain classes, which I think is a lost opportunity.

Like there could be a player who deliberately makes an orc wizard. According to the rules above, this orc wizard will have lower stats and weaker spells, thereby making the game harder. But I think in this case the player will be happy because she picked this handicap on purpose. It's emergent storytelling and will deliver a unique experience to that player.

As game devs, we could even deepen this experience by for example, having many stores not willing to sell spells to this orc wizard because the shop keepers are racist.
 

Htlaets

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For the "more intelligent" trope it makes more sense to have that tied to lifespan. An 80 year young Elf probably has more education than a middle aged human. Either that or not have intelligence coupled to magic power and have it be a separate thing where Elves just naturally have more magic power.
 

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