How do you organize your statuses?

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Doktor_Q, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. Doktor_Q

    Doktor_Q I'm not a real doktor, but I am a real Q Veteran

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    "Status effects" tends to bring to mind things like poison, blind, and sleep, but especially with RPGMaker there's a lot of other types of states you'll end up with. Despite the variety of states you can make, a lot of them most likely follow similar rules- for example, fire, ice, and lightning enchantments probably share a lot of settings.

    How do you go about organizing them in your games? Do you separate a specific set of "ailments" from other debuffs? Do you group them into DoTs, disables, etc? Do you draw distinction between an attack buff, a counter stance, and health regeneration?

    Do you always use certain settings on certain types? Maybe your attack bonuses last for a number of actions instead of whole turns, or ailments always last outside of battle, or debuffs have random duration while buffs have fixed duration?

    Share systems you've liked or created!
     
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  2. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    yes.
    to all.

    my proudest achievement is a stacking handshake that takes place between states that negate each other, so instead of "if state, remove or add" structures, I just *add* "cancel THESE", with "cancel THESE" cancelling *itself*, and on top of that "ADD, this one"
    so, it all works by adding from the skill's after effects, never by removing.
    I just call "ADD X", *it* adds Y, Y cancels A, B, C and itself, and leaves the remainder of X.
    that, multiplied by some 10 different states.
     
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  3. Milennin

    Milennin "With a bang and a boom!" Veteran

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    I organise them under these categories:
    -Key states, generally invisible, but used to assist in setting up main mechanics, like invisible stun to dictate turn order or something.
    -General states. Basic things, like sleep, burn etc.
    -Player states. These are skill specific, often used in assisting with triggering battle events when player uses a certain skill.
    -Enemy states. Same as above, but for enemies.
     
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  4. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    I don't.

    Again, I don't.

    Yeah, I don't.

    =============
    I use thematic naming scheme. Instead of "Attack Up", I use something like "Solar Force" or other 'obscure' names. But here is the twist. I provided a UI to actually see what is their effect. I don't group a certain state based on what they do, like DoT, stat buff/debuff, etc. Because of my gameplay reason, a state can have multiple effects of it.

    I did, however, group them based on whether it is a buff/debuff for a functional reason. In the state description, I use green text as buff, red text as a debuff, and yellow text as a passive effect. There's an item/skill that could wipe out all buff/debuff. I don't want to limit my state wiping item/skill to only effective to a certain kind of states. I make it general. If the state cannot be dispelled, I said it so in the state description.

    As for organization in the database, again, I don't. I use whatever slot that is available to put my state idea. And for a technical reason, I had to make a player to enemy stun, and enemy to player stun different because of how my turn system works.
     
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  5. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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    I organize actors, classes, skills, weapons, armors, to some degree but states??? I've never reached the point where organizing them sounds good. I only really have a few states in my game so I dont see the need to organize them.

    It would also mean that i should know exactly how much I will do because the database entries are array ID based; if I move a state to a different position, I'll need to edit everything that pertains to it too. This makes adding new entries to follow the categorization hard.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  6. AfroKat

    AfroKat Villager Member

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    Yeah I don't organize states at all. Mostly they start off with the basic 8, and then as I make more skills I slowly add more states. But I never categorize them
     
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  7. taaspider

    taaspider Veteran Veteran

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    I'm currently going through the painful work of creating my project's database. I've organized items, weapons and armors to some degree, and I've been giving some thought as to what I will do with states. I'm thinking of only grouping passive and active states somehow. I don't think I'll be able to organize much more than that.
     
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  8. TWings

    TWings The Dragon Whisperer Veteran

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    That, so much ! I mean, I get the whole planning ahead thing before actually coding anything. But either you're very good at it and never need to add anything else after your inital concept phase or you're screwed at some point because you need to add a few things right between the dozens of other entries to stick with your organisation.
    That's the limitation of RM's databases interface, they are "dumbed down" to a point they lack the flexibility you have when you work with more standard database systems. The unability to sort the entries without screwing with their key id beeing the main issue here (that would make a great improvement suggestion).

    So to get more to the question at hand, I don't organise my states either (or anything at all for that matter). Or at least I don't direcly in RM, instead I do twice the work by also filling excel sheets with secondary ids to be able to sort everything any way I can possibly need (I might eventually end up writing a script to do it for me at some point). Basically when I'm looking for something, I use excel sheets. Having an organized database within RM is an utopia as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  9. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    This is why I don't organize my database, I keep em cluttered (and I already used to live that way even with other stuff too).
    With a little help of scripting, I keep the ID, but I sort them manually. This is how I make my own bestiary menu in my old game.
    Screenshot_557.jpg
    Screenshot_558.jpg
    If I ever need to add a new database, I just pick a few random empty slots and put all of my new stuff there.

    And to further answer the question, yes, my state id is jumped around like how I did in my enemy database (or basically other databases as well). I deliberately put an empty gap for organizing of "this is the idea I come up during a certain span of time". And if I got another idea, I take another slot gap and fill the next slot with my idea.
     
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  10. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    I organized them by "use". I have "Weakness to X" states first. Then, I have "Weapon States", which are also the states the party will be inflicted with (and the only states with consumables for cures) and will appear on equipment. I finally just have "Ability States", which are misc. states the party will inflict on themselves (like buffs and such).

    The "Weakness" states are organized by order of my elements in the database (which was arbitrary).

    The "Weapon States" are organized by "Power". Which means, organized by how much they affect the flow of battle. They're also organized into "Tiers". So, Poison Level 1, Poison Level 2, Poison Level 3, etcetera. And the order is "Poison", "Burn", "Blind", "Stun", "Paralyze", "Sleep", "Silence", "Confuse", "Charm", "Frozen", and "Zombie". The ones at the bottom affect the flow of combat more than the ones at the top (which is to say, whether it's a priority to avoid or cure the states or whether you can let them go for several turns or more and ignore them).

    The "Ability States" are just organized into order of the skills that cause them. It looks pretty rough, but it's useful when I assign a state to an ability, as they're close and in order of what they need to be. For example, Speed Up 25% is next to Speed Up 50%. Speed Up 100% is next to Reflex up 25%. Etcetera. In order of my skill list. It also means that if there are similar states that "last longer", they're in order for that as well... as the ones that don't last very long are closer to the top of the list, while the ones that last a while are closer to the bottom.

    I tend to organize everything in my Database like this. Though, I often add Headers to keep track of things. I've pre-planned most everything in my game out before even messing with the Database to ensure it's as "clean" as possible and I don't have to move stuff around later. For things I couldn't plan, I simply left gaps in order to have places to add them in (like equipment... I do not have an idea for 2000 pieces of equipment, but I can leave spaces for 72 pieces of each equipment type for when I need new stuff).
     
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  11. M.I.A.

    M.I.A. Goofball Extraordinaire Veteran

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    Depends on the project and what my needs are for states..
    Currently my Main project has 3 tiers of each state (Flinch, Stun, Paralyze.. etc.), so they are arranged in groups of 3 of each type of status affect... and then after all those are the "mechanic specific" states.. such as when a Plugin requires certain states to work. And lastly, are States that I call "silent" States. They are States that I use as the developer to trigger common events, adjust variables, trigger a switch, etc.. :)

    On my side project, I have 5 states that operate as you would think: Poison, Blind, Silent, Sleep, & KO. .. and that's all. That's all this project needs.

    I hope you find this helpful! :)
    -MIA
     
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  12. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Mine are set up something like this:
    • System states (KO, guard)
    • Negative status ailments (blind, paralyze, etc)
    • Damage over time effects (poisons, burning, bleed, etc)
    • Positive states (regen, refresh, protect, shell, etc)
    • Guard enhancement states (states added to the player or party by guarding if certain things are equipped)
    • Combo trackers (hidden states that unlock a new ability temporarily)
    Note that specifically within negative and positive states, things are further clustered together so that you have classic ailments (blind paralyze etc) followed by stat debuffs all clustered together, and soforth. Similar states are together too, so there Daze, Paralyze, and Stop together, Confusion and Charm together, and soforth.
     
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  13. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    The only categorization I make for States gameplay-wise is whether they are "Positive" (helpful) states, "Negative" (hurtful) states, or Neither (for example a side-effect of one's own attack, or a state used solely to convey information). Some skills interact different with Positive vs. Negative states, such as reducing the duration of existing Negative states on an ally, dealing extra damage for each Negative state inflicted on the caster, or granting a heal to all allies with Positive states on them.

    Behind the scenes, I make a few extra categorizations - for example, I treat skills that disappear over time differently from skills that don't when I write certain methods for skills or battle flow - but the player never needs to see nor worry about these divisions.
     
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  14. lianderson

    lianderson Veteran Veteran

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    Organize?
    LOL *slaps knee*
    *wipes away tear*
    That's funny as hell.

    ...oh wait, you're being serious.

    *looks at cluttered mess of a database in his own game he's been working on for 6 years*
    I got problems. :(

    Note to self, organize next game.
     
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  15. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @lianderson : Ha! I joke the title of my next book is going to be I'll better organize my next game and other lies I tell myself.

    As for how, I tried to organize it by class that could inflict it, then if it was a buff/debuff/status ailment for the unique ones, and the ones that were shared by classes I put at the top of the database, but it failed as I didn't leave enough space between classes so as skills changed some ran out of room, and you can guess what happened from there.
     
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  16. ave36

    ave36 Veteran Veteran

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    I do organize my states, since my game is very state heavy; the protagonist is a status ailment specialist. All status effects are grouped into the following sequences:

    : System Reserved: knockout, guard and immortal.
    : Black Magic: standard status effects inflicted by the main character, Oscar the Black Knight: blind, silence etc.
    : White Magic: beneficial status effects such as haste, regen, shell etc., used by Melle the White Mage and Mira the Paladin.
    : Exotic States: inflicted by enemies, not usable by player, such as bleed, virus, eject etc.
    : Script States: dummy states used by scripts, such as a defensive stance used by a boss, a targeting aid used by a skill, etc.
    : Passive States: special states used by enemy classes, such as flying, undead, heavy etc. The undead passive state is mechanically identical to the undead state Oscar can inflict, but it does not have the animation; I do not want my zombies and ghosts to blink green constantly.
     
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  17. FirestormNeos

    FirestormNeos Veteran Veteran

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    1. Death at the top of the list (duh)
    2. Each weapon class' transformation, the main gameplay mechanic.
    3. Guard, Dodge, Intercept
    4. Class-specific states, organized by which weapon class they belong to.
    5. Once I finish working on the weapon classes, after that is minion-specific states.
    6. After that, enemy-specific states.
    7. After that, item-specific states.
     
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  18. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @FirestormNeos : One problem with that is the engine expects Guard to be in state 2 in the database, so unless you are using a plug-in or script to change that, that will cause problems.
     
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  19. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    So an update to what I posted above:

    I'm kind of starting to wish the states section (and a few others like weapons/armor/items) had some sort of customizable tab-based interface to make organizing things easier. My "bad states" section is now full, so I've had to create some runoff which I'm not pleased with, but I also don't want to have to go through and redo abilities just because I pushed everything else down. So now, I have...I guess multiple sections for 'bad states" :(
    • System states: Death, Guard, Immortal
    • Bad states, Blind, Paralyze, Silence, Cripple, Freeze, Zombie, stat debuffs, etc
    • Neutral states: Wet, Oil, etc (basically states that reduce resistance to some elements while raising resistance to others)
    • Good states: Stat buffs, Taunt, Regen, Reraise, Haste, assorted mitigation/resistance abilities, etc
    • Counterattack buffs/effects that temporarily allow the user to counter with a specific attack vs certain conditions
    • Combo trackers: Hidden states that enable abilities
    • Fortune buffs: I have a few NPCs that will read cards or whatever to offer a temporary random utility buff for awhile, which includes bonus drop rates, surprise attack chance increase, etc.
    • Equipment defend buffs: Defending in my game can also convey additional buffs/effects (in addition to defending) if certain pieces of equipment are worn. These effects are generally the same duration as defend and can affect either the user or the user's party. That's this section.
    • Doom and petrify/etc: Okay, this should be in bad states, but I ran out of room. Blah I hate this~
    • Damage resist debuffs: These should also be in bad states but again, no room and I guess I planned poorly.
    • Zone states: Certain zones can do bad (or good) things to either the players, the enemies, or both every round, such as deal damage, inflict status ailments, etc. Without a <Warm Coat>, players can suffer cold damage every round and/or end up frozen. Fun times to be had in this section. :D
     
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  20. FirestormNeos

    FirestormNeos Veteran Veteran

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    Huh, I didn't know that. Thanks for catching that for me.
     
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