How do you suggest newbies on their first RPG story?

[Nagasaki]

We all are in/have been there, thinking of the story of your first ever RPG. However, as an advice from a thread here in the forums (I can't link the thread here because I posted this thru mobile phone), "Do not make your first game your 'dream game'." And we all know for a fact that most newbs installed RM to "materialize" that epic story on their heads. That means, telling them to not do it yet will lead them to this: "If I cannot do that epic story, how can I make a story good enough for a first game?" We all know creating a plot is sometimes tedious because of mental blocks and lack of ideas and what-not, and also most newbs tend to go demotivated on creating that first game as they are eager to create that epic one on their mind.

So, as fellow community members, how can you suggest them to create their first game without triggering that feeling on them? How do you intend to help them on creating that short story? What suggestions will you give in order for them to surpass their "learning curve"?

 

[NeoFantasy]

My first game was overly ambitious and ended up as a mess of ideas thrown together. thanks ti what I learnt though my second game is coming along much better. I would reccomend starting with a simple story ex collect all four elemental crystals or whatever so you can get to know how the engine works. It can be hard though, wanting so badly to make your dream game come to life but knowing your not ready to make it. So start off with sknethif since and short. (I apolgize for the many errors in this text in also typing from mobile)

 

[richter_h]

Stick on one plot, keep your feet on it till it's done.

Spoiler

Most of newcomers in my place are bunch of what I called as 'daydreamers'; they dream big, but they can't do anything but doing stuffs based on their ego. Since they're greenhorns, they only figured out a little of their tools' capabilities yet they want to make something as colossal as the Mahabharata epic. Did they fail? Yes and miserably. Will they learn from their first game? Absolutely.
Another thing that bugged me so often as a fella with some experience is those who tend to change things in their projects without considering the consequences. One maybe wants to add much twists on their story, while another wants to add characters and side stories, preventing them to make actual progress. This is surprisingly rather common case, newcomers and veterans alike.

Also as a reminder, we also have a time to start something and almost impossible to make perfect craft in single try, unless you're The Chosen One.

All the newcomers need is support from the experienced ones. Lowering their ego and standards is another thing they should try as well.

 

[Sharm]

I think a first game should be short, with as generic a story as possible and never released to the public. The point isn't to make a good game, but to make a game, and get used to what that actually means. Also, it gives you practice in finishing what you start. Finishing is a skill that not nearly enough people have around here and like any skill you need to practice it before you're any good at it.  A good plot and a good gameplay can be done in a later game.

 

[LootHunter]

I think a first game should be short, with as generic a story as possible and never released to the public. The point isn't to make a good game, but to make a game, and get used to what that actually means. Also, it gives you practice in finishing what you start. Finishing is a skill that not nearly enough people have around here and like any skill you need to practice it before you're any good at it.  A good plot and a good gameplay can be done in a later game.

Probably, if you follow tutorials (like the ones that were made by Nick Palmer for RPGMaker VX Ace) that will cover it. However this brings the question what to do next. I mean - I made my "trash" game. How do I proceed, so my next game would become better?

 

[Sharm]

Pick something to improve on, but only one.  Make your next short and simple game based around using that one improvement to it's fullest potential. Once you're finished with the game pick a new thing to improve on.  If it works well, use that to revise this second game, if not do not try to shoehorn it in, just go ahead and make a new game.  Remember to keep it short and simple.  Even if you make your amazing 40 hour epic you will need to be constantly trying to keep it short and simple.  (Oh, and your 40 hour game should *not* be your second game either, IMO).

BTW, all this is assuming you haven't made any other type of game before.  If you're a veteran at other genres or engines you can skip forward a bit.

 

[Nagasaki]

Mobile replying really is kinda hard. No formatting and what-not. Anyway, even if I'm the topic poster, and I admittedly am one of the first-timers (Blame time problems. Thesis stuff. School work. At least I can now start exploring my Ace. MV can wait), I have ideas on where to get a story for those short games...although I'm not sure if these will work. It's kinda a "just now" idea. Untested.

1. A fragment of your big game. If you can't think of a new story, why not get a "bite off the cake"? Congrats! You are now learning to make a game, and had just made a prototype build of your big one! Two birds in one stone. And in case you want to continue on that story (which will highly fail), don't lose hope on making that great story. Ever heard of a "remake"? Game Freak did it. Squeenix did it. You can also do it once you know what to do.

2. Make a fan-game. If you don't really want to tinker with that story just yet...make a game from an existing story you are interested...as long as it's short. Story's already pre-made for ya. All you need is to "RPG-fy" it.

 

[BloodletterQ]

I'm thinking about making a story loosely inspired by what could be a memoir all fantasized as a start. I feel confident as a storyteller. It's being a game dev, particularly mapping that may prove to be of some difficulty to me. Can't make a good castle even in Minecraft or Terraria.

 

[Sharm]

I'd advise against doing even a partial of your dream story as your first game because in your first game you need to be willing to make something truly terrible.  If you're too attached to it you'll loose flexibility and won't be as willing to experiment.  You'll get stuck on your sprites because they don't look enough like the character you envisioned.  You won't be willing to try an unusual character class because your magic system doesn't work that way.  You'll obsess over a map that doesn't matter as much in this story but will be a major hub in your real dream game.  You need some experience before you can tackle those sorts of problems, the type of experience that will help you understand which of those things are really important and which will just get in your way.

 

[Nagasaki]

I'd advise against doing even a partial of your dream story as your first game because in your first game you need to be willing to make something truly terrible. If you're too attached to it you'll loose flexibility and won't be as willing to experiment. You'll get stuck on your sprites because they don't look enough like the character you envisioned. You won't be willing to try an unusual character class because your magic system doesn't work that way. You'll obsess over a map that doesn't matter as much in this story but will be a major hub in your real dream game. You need some experience before you can tackle those sorts of problems, the type of experience that will help you understand which of those things are really important and which will just get in your way.

Point taken. The idea itself is risky as most newbs will surely just either lose interest to it due to "lack of envisioning", or go with it with incrementing standards.

 

[mjshi]

I think a tagline over at RMN puts it best: "Grind experience points first by making tiny sh*tty games." Only then will you be able to make something great.

 

[DarthVollis]

I think a first game should only use the default resources that are included with the engine. That means no scripts and no extra characters. The object is to just learn the engine and understand the functions. After that the experience will allow for a more complex game.

Few of us can sit down and make a complex game first off. I sometimes wish I had taken my own advice instead of making the epic that I am making.

 

[Andar]

I adressed some of that in my starting point tutorial (first link in my signature) - basically I suggest telling them that they need to start with a learning project, a project in which they can try anything because they know it will be scrapped.


And that they need to spend a month on that to go through the tutorials with it, because learning the basics will speed up their later game making.

 

[Nagasaki]

I adressed some of that in my starting point tutorial (first link in my signature) - basically I suggest telling them that they need to start with a learning project, a project in which they can try anything because they know it will be scrapped.

And that they need to spend a month on that to go through the tutorials with it, because learning the basics will speed up their later game making.

THIS guy"s thread is what I'm telling ya! That thread with the "don't make your first game your dream game" advice. At least IIRC. Newbs should read it, especially guys without any background on programming.

 

[bgillisp]

1. A fragment of your big game. If you can't think of a new story, why not get a "bite off the cake"? Congrats! You are now learning to make a game, and had just made a prototype build of your big one! Two birds in one stone. And in case you want to continue on that story (which will highly fail), don't lose hope on making that great story. Ever heard of a "remake"? Game Freak did it. Squeenix did it. You can also do it once you know what to do.

That's what I did. I took one of my big stories (which I had written out in word years ago), and made Chapter 1 of it for the IGMC. Had to cut some content of it to meet the 1 month deadline, but was able to still finish. Now I'm adding to it bit by bit. One year later I'm up to chapter 5 (of 9), and have something that I and the few who have played it seems decent.

Though...I should add to this. If you do decide to make your big game, plan how long you think it will take you to make it. Now double that. Now  you probably have a reasonable idea of how long it will take, plan how to use it. By this approach, I came up with about 3 years to make the game. sure, that number is huge, but since I'm doing this on the side while working I'm only out my time and a little $$$ if I fail, and honestly, have spend more on video games in some years than I've spent on commisssions for this game.

Also, to quote Andar, just remember "A titanic list of features is a great way to go titanic". I've been focusing on my plot only, and adding side quests as I hit a brain freeze on how to implement the next piece of the plot. Once that is done, then I'll see about adding side featuers...or not, and just release what I have.

@sharm: Maybe it worked for me because I was willing to make something totally terrible anyways, then go back and fix it later as I got more skilled?

 

[Nagasaki]

Also, to quote Andar, just remember "A titanic list of features is a great way to go titanic". I've been focusing on my plot only, and adding side quests as I hit a brain freeze on how to implement the next piece of the plot. Once that is done, then I'll see about adding side featuers...or not, and just release what I have.

Same thing here. I don't think too much on features. Too be honest, the only features I am thinking of that requires a script (assuming it's Ace) for my first biggie is just SBS and a single 4-man skill. The rest, I guess eventing and some database tweaks can do the job (since I already tried to play 2 unencrypted games on 2k3 and Ace, respectively, using the editor's events as walkthrough). You can do those additional stuff once you decide to "upgrade" a simple game. As I just stated, "remakes".

 

[Sharm]

@sharm: Maybe it worked for me because I was willing to make something totally terrible anyways, then go back and fix it later as I got more skilled?

Probably.  This is just advice, in the end it's what works for you that matters and there will always be exceptions.

 

[TheOriginalFive]

I used the same characters I intend to use in the actual project in my game, just with a shorter plot. Which involved them being stranded on a tiny set of islands for about an afternoon.

 

[GambleMountain]

Stay small, use only characters you need and forget about side-stuff until you finish your games main plot. 

You're gonna want to start something else because the most exciting process of a game is starting one.. If you cannot pass this stage you will never finish a game. 

 

[Lt. Ulquiorra]

Well, I started small... Really... My first game was a side-scroller made with Game Maker. It took me almost a month to finish it. It felt great though. That said, a lot of you guys have said it: Start small. Don't start with a project more than an hour long. One hour game is hard enough to make (well, if it is your first time anyway). At first, depend on other people's resources (of course those that are from public use) along with the included resources on the program. My first ace project was about an hour long and it took me the rest of the semester to finish it. Well, I did use tons of scripts for that one. It took me about to test it and remove most of the problems. Even then, I wasn't able to fix it all.

Well, for the plots... Maybe use some generators? I did use the ones from SeventhSanctum and it turned out good. Some of the titles were hilarious too.

BTW, all of my first few projects in Ace were all crap, but honestly, finishing all of those things that I call crap were worth it...