How good your English grammar?

Mister.Right

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I just took an online class, there are many rules in writing which I have not known before. For example, when turning singular to plural, there are rules and exceptions ( am I spelling exceptions right? ).

I summarize the rules as follow.

+ Nouns ending with S, X, Sh, CH, Z adds es
+ Nouns ending with Y preceded with consonant adds s, if preceded with vowel change Y to i and adds es.
+ Nouns ending with F, FE, FF adds s with exception Leaf, have, self
+ Nouns ending with O preceded with a vowel adds s, preceded with consonant adds es
+ Proper noun adds s
+ Foreign noun ending with o change to i, and change to e if ends with on
+ Irregular nouns change or add words
+ Hyphen and compound nouns
+ Non-count nouns don't add anything
+ Everything else adds s

What I can't identify are non-count nouns and hyphen and compound words nouns. Eg. the word exception is a non-count noun?

I find English grammar's structure is difficult for learners whose first language Vietnamese where plural vs singular just simply adds the number to indicate the noun. For example; one apple, two apple ... many apple, no need to add s. When I speak or write English I often get confused with Vietnamese's grammar structure, I often drop the s or es on the plural nouns.
 

mlogan

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+ Nouns ending with F, FE, FF adds s with exception Leaf, have, self - Perhaps you meant half? I can't think of an instant where "have" would have an s added onto it. There are plenty of other times where you would change "f" to "ves" as well.

+ Hyphen and compound nouns
+ Non-count nouns don't add anything


What I can't identify are non-count nouns and hyphen and compound words nouns. Eg. the word exception is a non-count noun?
I'm not sure what you mean by "non-count" nouns. But the word exception could be made plural by adding an s. For example, English grammar rules are hard for anyone to learn, because there are many exceptions to the rules.

I would think most hyphen, compound, and non-count nouns would follow regular rules of endings.

Well, though hyphens can be tricky. For example, if you were to marry, your spouse's sister would be your sister-in-law. If your spouse had mother than one sister, they would be your sisters-in-law. So in cases such as these, the actual noun part (Sister) would get the s. But, I don't think you can say that's a hard and fast rule for ALL hyphenated words.


I find English grammar's structure is difficult for learners whose first language Vietnamese - Seems to me you've made a good start. As I said earlier, English grammar is just difficult all around.
 

Mister.Right

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Yes, half not have. I mistyped that word.

Noncount nouns examples are respect, color, grammar, hair. I am wondering why the word exception's plural form can add an s? Isn't the word exception is a noncount noun? In a sense, any noun can be counted.

The hyphen's rules are vague. For example, brothers-in-law vs brother-in-laws, hand-me-downs...etc.

Beside plural vs singular, I also find verb tenses confusing for Vietnamese learners.

In English, verb categorized in tenses, past, present, and future.
Examples are; I go, I went, I have gone, I will go, I could have gone, I could go...etc.
Another example when ed added as suffix; I try, I tried, I have tried.

Versus with Vietnamese grammar is more simple.
To indicate the tenses of a sentence simply adds the adverb. An example is; I already go (past), I go there, yesterday, I will go tomorrow. The verb stays unchanged, the only adverb required.

Honestly, I am struggling when comes to write English.
 

mlogan

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Noncount nouns examples are respect, color, grammar, hair. I am wondering why the word exception's plural form can add an s? Isn't the word exception is a noncount noun? In a sense, any noun can be counted.
Interesting. It must be a completely different concept because yes, all of those examples, except perhaps "grammar", I can easily think of plural uses for them.

The hyphen's rules are vague. For example, brothers-in-law vs brother-in-laws, hand-me-downs...etc.
I've never studied up on the hyphen rules, but with your first examples, "brother-in-lawS" would be incorrect. I would hazard to guess the difference between that, and hand-me-downs, is that hand-me-down is considered the full name of the name, where as "in-law" is a description of the type brother/sister/mother/father, etc.

Honestly, I am struggling when comes to write English.
Hey, you have my respect. I imagine is very difficult, and I applaud you for trying to learn. My suggestion would be to try to read as much English as you can, so you can start getting a better grasp of the rules and their exceptions. ;)
 

kaukusaki

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Even with a degree in English I always have trouble with the *variants* (British, Canadian, and Australian for example. Dont get me started on New Zealand English or Indian English... )
With the way I tend to write most assume I'm Canadian (but I use US English , gah ).

You'll eventually get the hang of it ! Don't give up!
 

Mister.Right

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I've never studied up on the hyphen rules, but with your first examples, "brother-in-lawS" would be incorrect. I would hazard to guess the difference between that, and hand-me-downs, is that hand-me-down is considered the full name of the name, where as "in-law" is a description of the type brother/sister/mother/father, etc.
The video I watched says "Respect" is a noncount noun therefore should not add an "s" . But upon searching the word on Merriam Webster, the word has plural form as "Respects". The video also mentioned that Father-in-laws however considered correct in the context it is used. The video is made by English experts to educate employees of firm where I work.

English is not my native, hence when I read a word in English I rely on rules to know whether it is correct or incorrect while native speakers rely on how the word sounds or how it makes sense, right?

@kaukusaki I thought Canadian English and American English use the same grammar structure, only some words different?
 
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CannabistGameing

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respects is not widely used outside of funerals, weddings, and mob movies and mob movies is where you will hear respects the most at least modern north America the English on the other side of the pound is very different and i have to watch my localization so i don't offend no one by mistake. it seems at least to me and my 35 years of speaking the crap that respects is the act of giving respect and nothing more.

beside how we use u most of the major differences between what could be called Canadian and American English is only apparent when heard as auditory example.
 

kaukusaki

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It's primarily spelling differences and certain words. The grammar is mostly the same (slang & dialectical choice is a whole different category. )
 

CleanWater

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Don't let me write without the auto-correction enabled. It will be a disaster! Lol
 

Reapergurl

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I have excellent English grammar.

I'm probably one of a select few that I know that actually still uses semicolons ( ; ) to separate ideas but have them remain as part of one sentence.
 
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Edgre

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I can't think of an instant where "have" would have an s added onto it.
The "haves and have nots" is a case where you pluralize have. It's very uncommon case, but yes, in this case you would add the s to have.

@Mister.Right Your concept of non count nouns is actually more complex than it first seems. Let's take the example of hair:

You don't actually count the hairs on my head. You could talk about my hair, and people would understand that you mean all of them, not an individual hair.

Did you spot the fact that in the prior sentence I used the word 'hair' both in a singular form, to refer to one single strand of hair, as well as the plural form to refer to all my hair. Yet the sentence before, I also used the word 'hairs' (with the pluralizing s) to refer to multiple individual strands of hair. Yes, this is correct grammatically speaking. It's also what makes people want to pull their hair out when learning English grammar.

If you really want to understand English better, you'd do well to study both French and German. And then look at Old and Middle English, and you will begin to understand why English is a language that went from a perfectly sensible variant of German and then mucked it all up by dropping a whole lot of French into the mix. Add to that the habit that English has of following other languages into dark alleys, knocking them out and rifling through their pockets for loose words and grammar constructs, and you'll come to understand that even those of us with A's in college level English Grammar courses occasionally go "WTF?" when we come across the more esoteric forms.

Kudos to anyone not born into this mess of a language for even giving it a try. Because it is, without a doubt, among the more difficult languages to learn.
 
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Punamaagi

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Sorry about the long post: I think that my inner language nerd got a bit carried away.

I think that English isn't too difficult to learn. Mastering it, on the other hand, is difficult - but that probably applies to any language. I'd consider myself relatively fluent in English, but I still occasionally find myself forgetting which preposition to use with certain verbs or adjectives. I think it's largely because my native language (Finnish) mostly uses suffixes and they don't always correspond to specific prepositions.

Whether or not we find certain languages easy often depends a lot on the language family they belong to. English is part of the Indo-European language family like French, German, Swedish and so forth, so I'd imagine that people whose native language is part of that language family tend to have less trouble learning English than those whose native language belongs to a different language family - like the original poster. On the other hand, I think that most native English speakers would struggle quite a bit with learning something like Vietnamese because it follows a different logic.

How to learn to write a language better? I agree with @mlogan in that reading in the language you wish to learn is usually a good way. @Edgre's tip about studying French and German might help in understanding the grammar rules better, too, and if you are a deductive learner (i.e. prefer to study the rules and then apply them in practice), reading a grammar book aimed for students of English could be useful as well.
 

Sagath

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Gut preti, Love I gramar vekause is de bes zin n da worl
 

KayZaman

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Reminds me of old TV show called Mind Your Language. I learnt from that show........literally.
 

Jonforum

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For French, Italian, Spanish or English, it remains the same war.
Some bear a capital importance to spelling.
Most people do not care.

If mathematics is logical, the laws of grammar are completely illogical and dictate by centuries-old principles, which consisted in distinguishing social classes.
The hortographs were complicated to prevent poor people from impure blood to can fool people of pure blood.
We talk about of centuries ago, from the origin of the scribes.
These are why there are illogical and hyper complex rules in all cultures.
I prefer the logic of numbers, rather than that of words.
 

Mister.Right

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I just watched a movie called "Arrival", the movie is about human first contact the alien and learn that alien's language is far more advanced. The alien could convey a message in a form of communication that is equivalent to months of the same human language. See Japanese writing is pictograph to depict the meaning.
 

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