How important is it to include DRM?

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Spoiler

A decryption program doesn't exist. I just seen RPG Maker XP compiles cracked before.

Game Development is Hard

Game development is one of the hardest jobs ever created - not physically but mentally. You got to have such good coordination between a large set of people to even stand a chance in the commercial world. There's so many products out there; you barely stand a chance if you look at it as a paycheck. For example, I look at it as a challenge. Additionally, I strive to compete in the commercial world and don't need immediate pay. For people who need immediate pay, I would advise doing this as a hobby instead of playing games or whatever you do for fun. Once you get good enough to understand the market you're in, invest into it like a job.

Don't go into game development if you can't sit on a computer for 8 or more hours a day working. You will thank me later. You also need to literally love working on the computer... Also, be warned that game development is a huge task to master.

Love your Job

I jump into so many games to try them out and study the game design. I first figure out how everything works and try to get faster and faster at analyzing systems. That's what I do for fun. I don't need money if it is my hobby. A hobby isn't a job until you know you can make money from it. In which case, you then worry about DRM and those commercial problems. If you think your first game is going to make money, you need to seriously quit game development or reanalyze your competition. It's like an artist expecting their first painting to sell. That's why I get so mad at people who think they can make money on their first few games. I've been at this for over a decade and am barely at that stage. I don't consider myself bad, but I don't consider myself at the level of a professional. That's why indies have such a hard time, they have to really stand out and make something really polished.

Piracy

I support good software and games. If I don't like a game, I don't buy it. There are very few games I like, so I consider myself excluded from the marketplace.

And not putting DRM helps in any of those??? 

Also, there's nothing innately wrong with thinking that your first game will make money... That's what companies hope (and want) for, that their product makes money... On the first place, why sell a product if you yourself don't think that it will sell? It's just not advised by many to hope for something big or at least good results, but that doesn't equate to hoping for it is wrong...

We all know that it's harder to sell indies than AAA games, but that doesn't make thinking that your indie game will sell wrong... even if there is a 99.9999% chance that it won't...

 

[SomaelCK]

Reading the arguments leaved me very confused. Why it works for some games while it doesn't work for other? Is there even definite answer for this?

IMHO, there are several factors to take into consideration too, when it comes to commercial success. DRM or DRM-free is one of those several factors.

Maybe, we cannot make solid conclusion like making DRM-Free is not profitable. It maybe, or maybe not, depending on other factors, like the actual quality of your game.

But it's nice to hear opinions
 

 

[Shaz]

It's not a matter of working for some games and not others. It does not work completely for ANY game. ALL games will be hacked. The more "strict" your DRM, the more difficulties it's likely to cause for your honest customers (hence the horror stories about the DRM on some AAA games). And the more it's going to turn THEM to getting your game via other means.


You have to decide what is more important - attempting to prevent ANY piracy of your game (just accept that you can't, and realize that the most dedicated pirates would probably not buy your game anyway, so even if you could stop them, it would not gain a sale, and you waste a huge amount of valuable time in the attempt), or adding just enough to ensure people who WOULD buy your game, WILL buy it.


To me, DRM is about keeping honest people honest, and not making it difficult for them as a result. Pirates will do what pirates do, so efforts to specifically target them with your game protection are basically wasting your time.

 

[SomaelCK]

I meant to say, some DRM-Free commercial games still selling well. Not to say DRM effectively stop piracy or anything(Sry about confusing, need to improve my English more).. I do not worry about piracy at all. Just want to know whether having DRM or not could effect the sales from legitimate buyers.

I get the gist : DRM is about keeping honest people honest, and not making it difficult for them as a result.

I have two commercial game projects in hand and one is about to complete, and my primary aim is to build some fan-base while making some reasonable profit, no matter how small it is. So I am thinking about releasing my first commercial game as DRM-Free. I am not very keen on sharing it as a freeware tho.

 

[Helladen]

Let's not condone piracy in any way here. Whether it's good or bad, or whether people's "reasons" (aka "excuses") are good enough or not, piracy is piracy and is illegal. Please avoid the "don't use DRM because piracy is really good" argument.

I am not using excuses to say Pirating is okay. I don't like being conned into buying a product I don't like. I have limited money and want to use it on the things I care most about. With my limited amount of information and time, I cannot make these decisions on the spot.

• Software that has free trials generally aren't always great to fully try and experience. I like to try a product out and know I will use it before buying it.
• Games may suck past the demo. You can always rent them from GameFly, RedBox, or Blockbuster. Many companies consider borrowing stealing, because they don't want to lose potential sales to consumers that may not want to buy the game after borrowing it. Also, you can sell used games to shops like GameStop, companies want to get rid of this too.

At some degree yes Piracy is wrong, but as I said before a lot of things go unchecked in this world. Why fight or condone Piracy instead of using it to your advantage? If there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Shaz]

I meant to say, some DRM-Free commercial games still selling well.


I have two commercial game projects in hand and one is about to complete, and my primary aim is to build some fan-base while making some reasonable profit, no matter how small it is. So I am thinking about releasing my first commercial game as DRM-Free. I am not very keen on sharing it as a freeware tho.

Do you have sales figures for those games? Do you say they're "still selling well" because you know how much money is being made, or because you know how popular they are and how many people are playing them (which is NOT an indication of how they're selling - it could be an indication of how much they're being pirated).


If you do release your first one as DRM free, please DO come back and let us know how it goes. There are a lot of opinions on this, but not a lot of hard facts from people who've done it, and it would be interesting to see some first-hand experience. I think you would be disappointed with results, but I would be very happy to be proven wrong.

 

[amerk]

I am not using excuses to say Pirating is okay. I don't like being conned into buying a product I don't like. I have limited money and want to use it on the things I care most about. With my limited amount of information and time, I cannot make these decisions on the spot.

• Software that has free trials generally aren't always great to fully try and experience. I like to try a product out and know I will use it before buying it.
• Games may suck past the demo. You can always rent them from GameFly, RedBox, or Blockbuster. Many companies consider borrowing stealing, because they don't want to lose potential sales to consumers that may not want to buy the game after borrowing it. Also, you can sell used games to shops like GameStop, companies want to get rid of this too.

At some degree yes Piracy is wrong, but as I said before a lot of things go unchecked in this world. Why fight or condone Piracy instead of using it to your advantage? If there is a will, there is a way.

Even when you rent, you pay money for it, but not as much as if you were to buy the whole product. I don't see why gaming can't eventually go into the same direction as everything else, in that you can pay a rental fee to stream content for a day (like Amazon Prime, you pay like $1.99 to rent a digital movie from them). The problem I see is that most RM games (if it were possible to stream them in that way) can be beat in less than a day, so there's still a chance that somebody rents it, beats it, and forgets it.

However, it's still a much more viable option than piracy, because the developer still gets a portion of that rental fee, and there's a larger chance that more people won't be able to finish the game in that time, meaning they will either buy it or rent it again, and there's still the opportunity for those who really liked it to go out and buy it anyways.

As for games sucking past the demo, the problem is usually the demo itself. Most only last an hour, which is barely enough time to get out of the first town and get into any real game play to see if you like the game or not. Being able to stream and rent digital copies gives people more time to see if they'd like to own the game. But again, I don't even know if that's possible at this point.

 

[Helladen]

Do you have sales figures for those games? Do you say they're "still selling well" because you know how much money is being made, or because you know how popular they are and how many people are playing them (which is NOT an indication of how they're selling - it could be an indication of how much they're being pirated).

I do not have any figures of such a case, but if I was to make a commercial RPG Maker game I would just put in some sort of online service that allowed you to play online with people. I wouldn't bother to try to fight Piracy, because I can use it to my advantage if I offer an incentive for those people on the fence to buy it.

I'm not against adding DRM features (Cash Shop/online service like Battle.NET), but limiting the game with DRM I am against, because you won't get these people especially if you limit the product. You may even harm potential customers. It is better to treat the Pirate with dignity and respect, despite trying to steal your product. It may make them support you if you handle it effectively.

Even when you rent, you pay money for it, but not as much as if you were to buy the whole product.

I figured with renting they bought a game and rented it out to people, but is that wrong? I had no idea that companies actually worked with these renting businesses.

 

[Shaz]

I was asking SomaelCK, who I quoted.

It is better to treat the Pirate with dignity and respect, despite trying to steal your product. It may make them support you if you handle it effectively.

I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. If someone broke into your house and stole from you, are you going to treat them with dignity and respect? I don't think so. Do you think they will help you or do something nice for you later? Again, I don't think so. The fact that so many Americans keep weapons at home "for protection" indicates that that many Americans don't think so either It might be nice in theory, but in practice, it just doesn't work that way.


And now you are taking the "piracy is good" approach again, so I'll ask again to NOT condone piracy - that is not what this thread is about, so let's not derail it.

 

[Helladen]

I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. If someone broke into your house and stole from you, are you going to treat them with dignity and respect? I don't think so. Do you think they will help you or do something nice for you later? Again, I don't think so.

It is different in this situation. You are aiming to make a profit. You got to cut your losses somehow. In any method you use, you are going to lose potential customers, it depends on how you want to make your game protected from Piracy. I'm just giving one way to do it.

 

[Shaz]

A pirate is not a potential customer.


People pirate our games, and sometimes, because the game has been hacked, they end up having problems that nobody else who has a legal copy of the game experiences. Then they come to the forum asking us for help with their issue. And because the issue is caused by hacking, we can't reproduce it. And of course they don't volunteer the information that they're playing a pirated game, until we outright ask them (and even then they sometimes lie about it). This means we spend exorbitant amounts of time tracking down bugs that don't exist, in order to help people who have stolen from us, and who like the game enough that they want our help so they can continue.


Those people are not potential customers. They are thieves, and they will steal our next game, and the one after, and they will still expect us to go out of our way to help them, when they have done NOTHING for us.


WHY should I treat someone like that with dignity and respect?

 

[Helladen]

WHY should I treat someone like that with dignity and respect?

I never said to not have DRM protection even with your website. I just feel like you will lose customers by restricting the game with DRM.

 

[Shaz]

Pirates are not customers. And we've gone over this - I've already said DRM should keep honest people honest without making things difficult for them. As long as you take that approach, you are not going to lose too many customers.

 

[Helladen]

Pirates are not customers. And we've gone over this - I've already said DRM should keep honest people honest without making things difficult for them. As long as you take that approach, you are not going to lose too many customers.

All I'm saying is to find a work around for this problem instead of having DRM restrict the game itself. Add additional features for legit customers. I'm not suggesting to give Pirates your game for free, but I am saying that I honestly believe that there are some thieves that mean well if confronted about it. For example, if you prompt them about it, it may convince them to buy it, but if you close them out immediately they may never buy it. It just depends on how you see your customers.

 

[amerk]

I figured with renting they bought a game and rented it out to people, but is that wrong? I had no idea that companies actually worked with these renting businesses.

Movie rental stores (like Blockbuster) used to rent out, but most of that is going on the wayside because of digital games. Amazon Prime (which costs something like $70 USD per year) lets you stream some movies for free. Others, you either have to buy or can rent. Renting in this case gives you access to the movie to stream for a day or two at around $2 USD, whereas buying it means you get a digital copy permanently stored in your Cloud, I believe.

So if they can rent out digital copies, I don't see why companies don't start renting out digital copies of games the same way. Of course, game developers would need to start coordinating with these online services. Amazon has already tried their hand at a selling a few digital computer games, so they'd probably be the best bet to work with. I don't know what Amazon takes as a cut for each rental, but it's still an option to look into since the game developer still makes some money, even if it's not a full sale.

This way a legit person has the chance to try the game at a fraction of the cost, and has more time to enjoy it than a 1 hour timed demo.

Another option is to work with somebody to post a longplay on Youtube. Sure, it'll drive some away from buying the game if all they care about is just watching it, but I've seen plenty of games on youtube that I had to go out and play for myself, so it's one way to advertise the game and show off plenty of the game's mechanics and overall story.

 

[Zeriab]

Remember that portals selling your game can also have a say in the matter.

Feeling lazy here is my previous response: http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/13663-drm-vs-drm-free/page-3#entry150045

The only certainty about DRM is that having a too restrictive DRM will hurt sales.

I advise against too heavy a focus on fighting software piracy. Reducing the amount of pirates should not be the primary goal. Why? Well the easiest way to achieve the goal is by not creating the game. People cannot pirate that which does not exist.

Have your primary goal instead revolve about your customers, the good kind who buy your game(s). The financial aspect also matters. How exactly profits, sales, piracy interacts nobody really knows. Games are different. How much does those differences affect the attempts at measuring the effect of software piracy? Most of the surveys and discussions including facts (including this topic) have been riddled with generalizations without questioning them too much.

I may possible be completely wrong, but I believe that typical diffusion of innovation model is preferable to use on the customer/sales over time rather than a linear model:

What can and should you practically do when you stand with this choice where the effects are practically unknown?

Personally I would initially try to protect my game just enough so that a deliberate conscious choice is needed to illegally copy my game. I like the activation key scheme so I would look for a used and tested software product with the lowest amount of false positives. I don’t want to prevent legit users from playing my game. Using a DRM will however mean that someone will not be able to play my game. So prepare how to deal for such situations. Note that I said ‘initially’. The reason being that I expect going from DRM to DRM-Free is easier than going from DRM-Free to DRM.

Talk to the portals about DRM. It is not uncommon that you have to customize games specifically to portals. Steam has its own DRM. GOG focuses heavily on No DRM. Look at this news for example: http://www.gog.com/news/2013_nodrm_summer_sale_thank_you

So to answer the question in the title:

DRM and/or DRM-Free depending on the situation. Yes, that includes having both DRM and DRM-Free versions

*hugs*

 - Zeriab

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Ok, first I'm going to preface this by saying that I am speaking as an individual, and not as a representative of Degica/Enterbrain/RPG Maker.

Me, personally... I tend to be fairly anti-DRM. I'm not saying DRM has no place, but the main thing with DRM is that it shouldn't get in the way of your consumers. If your DRM interferes with your consumers, YOU ARE GIVING THE PIRATES A BETTER EXPERIENCE THAN PAYING CUSTOMERS.

Want me to put in a code when I first run the game? That is fine. The DRM like RPG Maker uses for instance doesn't bother me. Steam DRM doesn't personally bother me either, but mostly because I really like Steam anyway (though the constant sales are what drove me to liking Steam, so in a way their too good to pass up sales has sold their DRM as effective but not restrictive for me, because I'm already using Steam).

Not in the video game market, but an interesting case to look at is the TTRPG Eclipse Phase. They put out all the pdfs they create as free downloads, but you can also buy the pdfs to support them, and they also sell hardcopies. And from what I've gathered, they are doing pretty well. Also their books are kind of ridiculously pretty, though I don't like the system itself.

 

[Zalerinian]

A decryption program doesn't exist. I just seen RPG Maker XP compiles cracked before.

Yes, there is one that works with XP through Ace. It's not even hidden in the corners of the internet, you can google it extremely easy. And while encryption is definitely a good way to protect the resources themselves, it is not necessarily DRM.

 

[Tsukihime]

From a user-experience standpoint, DRM can only impact it negatively. No DRM means there's no negative impact, and the more you add, the more I'm probably going to get frustrated.


Add a license key? Have me spend a minute to fill out that form.


Connect to the server to authenticate? Possibly another minute depending on my connection and your server's connection. Oh and what if my internet is down or something.


Make me type in something everytime I want to play? Kind of annoying, but sure why not.


Make it difficult to transfer to another machine? That's sort of disappointing. Actually it is very disappointing, especially since most people that are well-off tend to have at least two devices that they use regularly.


How important is it? Up to you how much resources you are willing to invest in it.


There were a couple cracked games I played where it would throw error messages every 5 minutes...that was really annoying, because I can choose to "ignore" the error and continue playing, or sometimes I accidentally hit "OK" and it shuts the game down. And they were really good games as well...ended up buying them cause the whole experience was ruined just because the cracks messed things up.


Of course, this could also put your game in a negative light when pirates go and start complaining that your game is full of bugs, whether they are aware of why it's happening or not. Sort of the same as what Shaz mentioned.

 

[Helladen]

Yes, there is one that works with XP through Ace. It's not even hidden in the corners of the internet, you can google it extremely easy. And while encryption is definitely a good way to protect the resources themselves, it is not necessarily DRM.

I'm aware compilation isn't DRM. DRM is a server-side infrastructure that authenticates whether the product is genuine or not. In which case, if it fails then it prevents you from accessing it or restricting certain components of it.