How long should a normal RPG turn-based battle take?

[deaddrift]

Hi everyone!!

I've been simply floored by how great this community is, I've never been in a forum where so many people all work together to make shared goals and dreams become reality!

So I want to give something back to the community, and i decided the best way is through my graphics and music skills-

To that end, as I make my background RPG music and battle music to share with you all, I'm wondering how long I should make my loops?  And it got me thinking about game dynamics and how long a battle SHOULD last..

TL;DR: How long do you think a normal battle should take place in a turn-based combat RPG?

I want them to be long enough that you have enough variety within each song so it doesnt drive you crazy, and still quick enough to have a smaller file size (although OGG is a good compression format)... knowing how long an average battle normally takes should help making the music

I've been so far aiming around 1:00 - 1:30 minutes per battle song

Im making lots of variations so you dont get too bored with the same thing over and over, also I'm making ambient sounds and "overworld" music as well...

And as for game dynamics:

What is the "sweet spot" for a battle's time?  Players can get frustrated if a simple battle takes too long for a simple enemy, making the whole game "drag on", but if you program your battle dynamics so that you can mow through similarly-leveled enemies in like 10 seconds then the player is going to miss out on the intricacies of your battle system...  what do you try to aim for?  I know there are many ways to achieve a certain length battle, like HP considerations and weapon and armor strength (or lack thereof) but how long do personally enjoy a normal battle before you are ready to "get on with it" and get back to exploring the main map?

Please remember, I'm talking about NORMAL battles, not boss battles and not fighting against lower level or higher level enemies..

Thanks for any comments/suggestions!  I really enjoy talking about these kinds of things with like-minded people!

Cheers!

 

[West Mains]

How long do you think a normal battle should take place in a turn-based combat RPG?

Anything less than 30 minutes is an insult.

 

[byronclaude]

Fact is - ANY old-school style 2D RPG game is going to involve some degree of leveling or farming (running in circles and facing battles in order to level your characters)...  we endured it with Dragon Warrior, and Final Fantasy.  We dealt with it in Chrono Trigger, and with Lufia.  It's unavoidable... and yet we come back for more.  (FF7 was one of the highest selling video games of all time).

With that in mind, everyone will eventually tire of battle scenes, especially regular ones.  A typical battle scene in my opinion, should last anywhere from 10 seconds, to a minute and 30 seconds.

The key here (and I appreciate what you are doing, and that you are in fact putting thought into this)...  is to keep that 0:10 to 1:30 as lively as possible.  Use sounds that represent battle but are also pleasing to the ear (both composition, and individual instrumentation are important here).  The last thing you want is a very annoying sound behind the countless hours of leveling that must occur in order to make an average character into an awesome one.

Much love!  Thank you for taking the time to research this truly important area of rpg creation.

 

[deaddrift]

@WestMains

30 minutes lol!!!!  your enemies have like 1 million HP!



@byronclaude

great reply!  i will take what you said into consideration, although my style of music is known to be quite "rambunctious", but hopefully some will enjoy it... thanks for your input on battle duration and the good vibes man!  

So far, the average is about 1 minute- anyone else have an opinion on this matter?

 

[Frostyfirefly]

I prefer short and lethal, no more than 15 minutes per boss fight, less than 6 minutes per normal fight.

 

[Berylstone]

Please remember, I'm talking about NORMAL battles, not boss battles and not fighting against lower level or higher level enemies..

I struggled with this dilemma myself on my first game.  I took a lot of time writing enemy AI and battles would frequently last over 15 minutes.  And I can tell you I quickly learned the error of my ways.  It became tedious fast, and quickly overwhelmed the fun.

I prefer short and lethal

This is the conclusion I came to also (and you worded if perfectly).  Though I think rare fights can be as long and epic as you wish, frequent encounters really need to be kept short and lethal.  Otherwise players will start to dread combat instead of enjoy it.

 

[West Mains]

@WestMains

30 minutes lol!!!!  your enemies have like 1 million HP!

Haha, not quite. Closer to tens of thousands. 

About ten minutes is the longest anyones taken to murder something in my game, but I personally would want a fight to last as long as possible. 

 

[kerbonklin]

I would say 20 seconds to 1 minute for a normal encounter (if you were speeding through it) and 5~10 minutes for a boss.(also speeding)

Will vary depending on the pacing of your battle system.

 

[Another Ned]

[...] frequent encounters really need to be kept short and lethal.  Otherwise players will start to dread combat instead of enjoy it.

I once played a maker game that got me to this point. I only played it for a bit longer because it actually had really good battle music (so, good BGM actually can help keep players interested).

As for the question, I think I agree with Berylstone and Frostyfirefly on this, though regular battles that are very frequent (and unavoidable) shouldn't last longer than 2min.

And BGM length for battles: As long as it isn't annoying (for example weird changes in rhythm, too many high sounds - I lack musical vocabulary to describe), I don't mind a looped track that's only 1:30min or so for a 5min fight.

@deaddrift: What does "rambunctious" mean?

Also, very interesting topic, haven't really given much thought about it before.

 

[CWells]

You should think about this in relation to battle frequency in your game. If you're going through  a dungeon and dealing with, let's say some small rooms and are getting more than 4 fights a room, you might want to make the enemies relatively quick kill...

 

[byronclaude]

I very much agree with Chiara.  If the BGM is good, I have no problem with it looping even several times in battle.  I also agree with her that high-pitched sounds eventually give me a head-ache, so low to mid-pitched I think works best.  Regarding Deaddrift's comment, I think rambunctious sound is okay, just again so long as it is not annoying or too repetitive (there is a difference between a quality loop, and an annoying repetitive sound.)

One game that had great regular battle music in my opinion, was Chrono Trigger for SNES.  I never tired of it, but I am not sure what it's allure was.

My current project is real big on: random possibilities.  So while the average battle lasts 0:10 to 1:30, I am throwing in the occasional 5:00 - mini-boss just to keep the player on edge.  Of course the odds of encountering these random mini-bosses are low, and the "drops" from them make the encounter worthy and sought after. 

 

[Andar]

It depends on how many battles are there in the game and what the theme of the game is.

If it's a dungeon crawler (where you're supposed to grind/fight) then there should be a maximum of about 70% playing time - let's say 40 minutes out of every 60 minutes.

It's your own choice if you split those 40 minutes between 10 four-minute-battles or 40 battles of one minute each.

If the game is about exploration and discovery with a medium level of riddles, you should have no more than 20 minutes fights per hour of gameplay, divided into a few longer (and tactically interesting) battles, perhaps four battles of five minutes each.

If the game is puzzle-focused or story-centered, then you should have only one battle per hour, which might be between five and ten minutes long.

In a visual novel or a horror-game, you don't want random battles and only include boss-battles (if at all).

 

[Omega Weapon]

I think normal battles should not last beyond 1 minute if they are simple. I'm fine with anything under 10 minutes if it's tactical combat.

For boss battles, any length is acceptable as long as it can interest players. Just don't pull a Yiazmat, okay?

 

[deaddrift]

All these different viewpoints really help get a feel for a common denominator amongst the various styles of gameplay.. as gamemakers we need to always be evaluation how we can appeal to the largest crowd without sacrificing our core gameplay "ideals"

AND I really want to thank you all for your input about BGM and particularly teh parts about high pithed noises, in fact i have to re-think my approach since i liek to make some glitch music and chiptune music, and both have lots of highs, i can easily filter them out though simple eqing, for my future loops i will take that into consideration going in!

 

[physika23]

I try to go for 1:00-1:30 for regular fights, 3-5 minutes for minibosses/regular but "big" enemies (think finding a Behemoth in a FF game), and 10-15 minutes for a big story boss (this includes stages and tactical mechanics)

 

[Amenti]

The way I like battles to play out in the game I am making are two minutes long, tops. If they last less, good. For bosses, that is another thing, I hope they can at least last less than 5 minutes. Going over that span of time, I fear, can make players feel annoyed or bored

 

[MrZalgo]

It's highly dependant on what your battle mechanics involve. It can either be like Final Fantasy, where enemies take 1 minute, or bosses which take 6 minutes.

Or it could be like Xenoblade combat, where enemies can take 3 minutes or more depending on how your party is set up, and bosses up to 20 minutes for same reasons.

For me, I want my enemies to be around 2-3 minutes due to my game focusing on status ailments more than standard attacks. Bosses can take up to 5-10 minutes depending on how party is built, and how many phases is in the fight.

 

[TheoAllen]

Old topic, but still somewhat still relevant for discussion.
I'd say, it would take long if you're screwed up or dunno what you're doing. And less than 1 minutes if you're doing it right
My game even took one ~ two turns if you know how, and might even take 7 turns for normal battle because you keep using a wrong skill in a wrong target

 

[Tai_MT]

If you look at most RPGs, AAA and otherwise... Combat doesn't usually last one minute. More "strategic" combat can sometimes last a minute or so, but most combat just isn't that long. Most combat in an RPG lasts roughly long enough for every character in the party to get one or two attacks in, then it ends.

I'd aim for music anywhere from 30 to 45 seconds. At least... for normal battles.

Though, if you're using an ATB battle system, you might want to aim for higher, since there's wait time involved before getting to act.

 

[Failivrin]

Someone I know once asked a special forces guy, "Could you kill a man with your bare hands in ten seconds?" He replied, "Well ma'am, I sure hope it wouldn't take that long."
The length of a battle depends significantly on how well the player fights, and also whether they prefer offensive or defensive strategy. So even players in the same game will finish at very different times. That being said, I think 30 seconds to 1.5 minutes is a fairly ideal window for normal encounters.