How many skills would you have if you used a JP skill learing system?

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by atoms, Jul 3, 2018.

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How many skills would you put in a JP Skill Learn System per actor/character/party member?

  1. 5 or less

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  2. 6-8

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 9-13

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  4. 14-17

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  5. 18-21

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  6. 22-25

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  7. 29 or more

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  1. atoms

    atoms Veteran Veteran

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    For those who don't understand what I'm talking about, I'm thinking of Yanfly's one that can be found here for MV http://yanfly.moe/2015/11/14/yep-28-skill-learn-system/

    Otherwise here for VX Ace https://yanflychannel.wordpress.com/rmvxa/gameplay-scripts/learn-skill-engine/

    I think this would make a good discussion in helping me and anyone other game developer who isn't sure what seems like a good amount of skills to have without confusing the player with either too many skills or too little of them.

    I've been wondering about this for a while now. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
    #1
  2. Rinobi

    Rinobi Veteran Veteran

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    Between 30 and 360... Probably wouldn't bother if it's less than 16.
     
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  3. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I use the skill learn system, and right now my characters have both a class skill and a magic element they can cast spells out of. Spells are broken into levels 1 - 6 Currently number of spells/skills you can learn per level is the following:

    Class Skill: 5/5/4/4/3/3 (total: 24)
    Magic Spells: 6/6/6/6/4/4 (total: 32)

    In addition, you can find an ultimate class skill or magic spell as well. So this means in the end my actors can learn 56 skills/spells each + 2 ultimate skills.

    However, they will have to grind a lot to get all of them, as JP is limited and only earned at level up in my game.
     
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  4. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    To be honest, I haven't really had an idea of a game concept that uses Job Point that suit best to my ideal. The system suit for many skill choices, but having too many skills isn't good either. And I can't seem to draw a line between them.

    Using a few skills, that might as well don't use them. Using too many skills, you ended up overwhelmed and maybe some skills are not really used. A many choices of skills might be good if you plan to use single party member so you have more choice. But party members with lot of skill choice? that is not efficient. Job system to upgrade an existing skill instead of learning a new one could be better though.

    Script/Plugin aside
    Theoretically, if I ever want to try to make a game with job point, I'd still create many skill choices that is however you can only pick a few skills out of it. Yes, you can't get them all. And you can freely choose party member. A mage has their own kit. Fire, Frost, Heal, you name it. But you can only pick few kit from it. Same goes to other classes. So you can create a mage that is specialized to some kind of magic. That would leads into interesting party member build. This idea is inspired by XCOM.
     
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  5. XIIIthHarbinger

    XIIIthHarbinger Part Time Super Villain Veteran

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    I use Yanfly's skill learn plugin in conjunction with Yanfly's JP plugin.

    I have characters gain one JP per level, each skill cost one JP to learn, & I currently have the level cap set to 50 for my actors.

    Right now I have about a thousand skills to choose from for the player to learn, so any given character can only learn about 5% of total potential skills.

    However, it's set up that way, because classes are essentially superfluous. All characters can use every type of armor & weapons, as well as learn any given skill if they meet the required criteria. & their parameter growth curves are defined by the players chosen play style. So players can essentially set up each of the characters for any kind of build they want to, & by extension set up their team however they want.

    Simply player freedom & customization is the primary motivation behind that set up.
     
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  6. kovak

    kovak Bloodmancer Veteran

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    8 with upgrades for each skill
    8 for passives as well
    So i'll stick with 16
     
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  7. OnslaughtSupply

    OnslaughtSupply Blaaaah!!! Veteran

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    Personally I feel as if it's a learn system, as in the player should have a choice. A low number of skills means by end game, I should have all the skills. Which isn't really a choice of what skills I want, just what order. So I think you need a fair number. More than a player could get in 1 run. Also you could do stat boosting skills i.e. raise atk by 1 permanently or passive effects.
     
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  8. lianderson

    lianderson Veteran Veteran

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    Between 15 elements and 7 weapon types, I'm currently sitting at 650+ learnable skills for all players. Havn't had any complaints about the amount. In fact, I've only had the opposite.

    Just don't overload the player's battle menu with a bunch of useless skills, or make the skills too vague to understand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
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  9. atoms

    atoms Veteran Veteran

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    Thanks everyone!

    I'm interested in everyone's opinions, it all helps me think with what I may do with it.
     
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  10. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Veteran

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    I personally feel this is a poor question - I don't see any correlation between the type of Skill Learning system that you use and the number of Skills that should be available for a character.

    The JP system is good for games where "grinding" enemies is a fun and highly-repeatable activity, particularly if the player is encouraged to explore and diverge from the main narrative a bit.

    Meanwhile, the number of skills that each character should have depends mostly on your ability to create skills that feel unique and don't overlap too much in their function. This will also depend partially on the type of battle system you're using, and the method in which players select skills. I've talked about this in greater depth in the several "How many skills should I have" type of topics through the years.
     
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  11. Chaos Avian

    Chaos Avian Abyssal Wing Restaff

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    Using JP opens up a lot of customisation opportunites that can be fun. Playing with passive skills can lead to interesting builds, though with a JP system in play running it with a limited skills you can take into battle adds another layer. Sure you can grind and learn 50+ skills, but how many are you going to use, and how many all at once? Hence the limit. I quite like skill rotations or skill set ups that can lead to potential boss killing levels (provided you can get the ball rolling).

    So yeah, LOADS of skills are fine. Just tax the amount you can actively use a bit... Like, in FFX scrolling through 20+ skills just to select Quick Hit (because at that point, what else would you be using?) gets old really fast.
     
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  12. Eschaton

    Eschaton Hack Fraud Veteran

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    No matter the method of learning skills, I prefer a small number reliable skills with a wide degree of utility. I have no time or inclination as a player to experiment with a large number of skills that only might work.

    If i was going to use a point buy system, I'd have a series of upgrades which replace the preceding skill (once I have Fire2, I would never usw Fire1 again), passively reduce the cost of using the skill, allow the player to use that skill in combination with another in a single turn, or raise the elemental or state effectiveness associated with that skill.

    I'd group these corresponding active and passive skills together within discrete skill trees.
     
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  13. ShadowHawkDragon

    ShadowHawkDragon Veteran Veteran

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    When learning skills comes to player choice you can usually go for larger numbers as the players can choose whether to inflate their skill list or not. Combine it with skill equipping or skill replacement and that number can be far larger.

    However, always remember "Quality over Quantity". There's no point in having 600+ skills if they are all effectively the same thing just reskinned.

    The best way to know when you have enough skills is when you can't think of anything new and/or different without duplicating pre-existing skills (unless there's a reason why).
     
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  14. kamuipsyus

    kamuipsyus Professional Murder Hobo Veteran

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    Having access to a plethora of skills was always enticing when playing older games, such as FFVI, but then you realize that you are only using about 3-5 of those skills... even though you have access to well over 50+. I think it would be more interesting to have a skill tree like system, where you would have to buy let's say Fire before you could buy Fire 2 or Fire All 1 or a passive that increases your overall Fire Damage.
     
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  15. Dr. Delibird

    Dr. Delibird Veteran Veteran

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    I honestly am unsure. If it is a too high of a number than I know a large ammount of the skills will not feel substaintial enough to me. Or on the reverse it could be so few as to almost consider the whole system redundent. This is just what I know will happen with me. I want their to be a degree of customizeability within my game but on the same token I want the characters to all feel like they have been crafted to perfection (in terms of them as a character and them as a battler fit and make sense).

    I think I know of a few routes I am going to try first before tackling a skill learn system. Ideally if I were to do a skill learn system it would be in the vein of Borderland's.
     
    #15
  16. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    What a coincidence, I'm using that same thing in my project, although it's not a job-change-based game and it's being done in lieu of the more-rigid "you learn this crap at this level" system found in most classic RPGs because I want players to be able to have some choice. That said, the intended number of learnable abilities I'm aiming for on most characters is about 8. Some have a bit less, the main character has a bit more, but mostly I want to keep them around there. However consider the following about this particular game:
    • Characters can also equip/unequip extra abilities through special accessory-like pieces of gear. For now, I'm calling them materia because I'm creative and original. So if you equip the Libra materia on a character, he/she can use Libra until it gets unequipped.
    • Equipping weapons and shields also conveys temporary abilities matching the theme of the weapon. For example, equipping a longsword might grant "Stab" and "Slash." Equipping a powerful holy sword might grant "Slash," "Smite," and "Heal." Note that this is in lieu of the standard "Attack" command
    • Characters are intended to have strengths and weaknesses because I want to encourage players to utilize all of the characters to tackle encounters rather than "pick your favorite/strongest 4 and neglect the rest."
    So the total number of abilities each character can use will probably be around 15, even if they only learn about 8.

    Edit: Note that it's intended that, by endgame, they'll have every ability available to them as the choice is meant to be like that in FFT--you can choose what you think will be most helpful along the way. If you're going for the "you can't have everything, ha!" route then yeah, you'll want more than the number I'm using.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    #16

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