How much exploration do you expect in an RPG demo?

[ashikai]

Been working on polishing some maps lately, and I started wondering about this. Say a demo is anywhere from 1-3 hours long; roughly how many distinct maps would you expect to be able to explore?

For example:
Currently, my demo game takes place entirely within a highschool. Notable story locations include the library, the gym, and a classroom (with a couple of hallway maps to connect them all). Total map count is probably around 6-7 + two large maps (which may get broken into four maps depending on how big/laggy they are) for the tutorial dungeon level.

Does this seem like enough? Or do you guys, as players, expect to see a little more in terms of optional areas to explore? What are your preferences? How do you guys, as developers, approach controlling how much demo goes in the demo?

 

[msazako]

My advice: Do NOT Polish from the get-go. Do that last.

I learned that a demo should only show the technical aspect of the game and not portray as much story/polish as possible. And they also need to be rather short in terms of playtime.

I would call a game a "Beta" if you plan to release everything in one go as an incomplete game.

That said, exploration should probably be at a bare minimum, or rather, if you're someone who innovates, you should put secret passages, puzzle rooms, anything that people may expect if you plan to turn it into a full game. Exploration isn't a problem to be honest. Your game's feats should really be the ones you should be showcasing the most. The lore can come later.

Anyway, hope this helps!

 

[Mystic_Enigma]

Actually, that's more than enough for me! As long as the demo keeps me entertained enough to see it through. Then again, my standards aren't as strict as most, so what would I know?

 

[SmashArtist]

I don't think you necessarily need a lot of maps for a demo, unless lots of maps is an important aspect of the game? Basically, the demo should just give the jist of the way your game plays out and hooks the player to it's unique attributes.

 

[OnslaughtSupply]

My latest demo has something like 30 maps, but there smaller and the bulk of it is parallaxed, but that was part of what I wanted to showcase. I tend to make every room it's own map. It has anywhere from 2-4 hours of playtime depending on the players exploration. 6-7 maps sounds like either a lot of backtracking or dialogue for a couple of hours play. But like others have said, on an early demo, what do you plan to showcase?

 

[ashikai]

@msazako This *is* the end, technically. These are all the necessary maps, and I finished all the tiles; I consolidated all the tiles into appropriate tilesets, and then had to re-work the original maps or else they'd get all glitchy. Ultimately, it'll save time since my setup before was very haphazard and I didn't really know where anything was.

@OnslaughtSupply
The main game feature is the dungeon rather than the "real world" places like the school. And even then it might seem small (2 large maps) but I'm doing them MegaMan Battle Network style, and those maps were usually about that size early on; two areas you swap between with a lot of interconnected puzzles.

I'm just the kind of person who LOVES exploring and finding optional areas (must talk to all the peeps) so I figured my view was kinda biased. It would be really easy to bang out a bunch more classrooms and a couple more hallway/lounge areas (or some outdoor areas, like a courtyard?) but dong something like a music/art/auditorum/cafeteria would likely require making a lot more tiles and I'm not sure that's justifiable right now. They're not *needed* but I think they might be nice?

 

[VisitorsFromDreams]

That's a big demo, there are tonnes of GREAT RPG maker games you can finish in their entirety in that amount of time. If you cant sell a games core mechanical concepts and story in and hour or less you probably need to rethink how your approaching it.

 

[Kes]

@ashikai 'General Discussion' is not the place for feedback about an individual specific project. If you bring every response back to what does or does not fit your particular game, then the topic clearly doesn't belong here. Maybe this is more for Ideas and Prototypes, or even Games in Development if you are that far along?

 

[XIIIthHarbinger]

I would say that what should go into a demo, is going to vary greatly according to the game in question.

For example, currently I can't field a working demo of my game; even though I have more than a thousand skills, hundreds of enemies, a working integrated time, weather, & day/night cycle system, more than forty classes, an integrated randomized loot drop system, local & world map mechanics, & a playstyle based parameter growth system all set up.

Why?

Because, it's an open world sandbox, & I am in the middle of revising my field maps. So until I finish revising & reconnecting those field maps, the game doesn't function. Yet once I've completed those revisions & reconnections, all that's left is aesthetic polishing, NPC dialogues, & quest eventing.

Simply put, due to the nature of my game, it doesn't segregate into a demo version very well. On the other hand someone whose game is intended to follow a very linear path, with each section of the story being segregated to specific game area, readily separates into a demo far better than my own game ever would. Simply by setting up the demo to play the first & depending upon total game length maybe the second "chapters" as it were.

So what makes for a good "demo" of your game, is quite honestly going to be entirely dependent upon the nature of your game.

 

[Wavelength]

I believe that the purpose of a demo is to show off what is really cool about your game, in order to get people excited about it based on a short play experience (so they will want to play the longer, more fully-fleshed out play experience).

If your demo doesn't show off what's great about your game, it won't get people excited. If people don't get excited, your demo is a failure.

So, what aspects of your finished game are going to be really cool? What dynamics will get people excited if you show them off? Pick three or so things that really define your game. Is physical exploration one of them? Great! Show it off by allowing players to visit and interact with every nook and cranny of one small part of the physical space in your game. Is physical exploration not one of them? Great! Don't worry about it one bit in the demo.

Whatever you do, make sure that the "tutorial level" is only a small percentage (25% or less) of your demo, measured by time spent by a first-time player. Tutorials are necessary in some games, but they are not exciting. Once a player has learned the tools he has access to, he wants to spend a lot of time using those tools before the experience comes to an end.

 

[ashikai]

@Kes Sorry, I wasn't trying to bring it back to feedback on my individual project; I was just using it as an example since I haven't really counted many maps in other projects and it was the context in which I started thinking about the subject. I'll try to keep things less specific.

@VisitorsFromDreams I was never claiming that a demo should be 1-4hours or anything; I was just giving the range that I felt was appropriate for a small/short game (which would also be a equivalent of a long game's intro/demo) while accounting for different speeds players would approach the game with. Long Gone Days, for example, had a demo was about 30 min, whereas the whole game was about 6 hours which is a ratio of 1:12 in terms of preview:final gameplay and that was entirely based on how quickly you played.

A lot of people seem to be getting hung up on the fact that I was talking about a game's preview/demo and different facets of that, but that really wasn't what I was asking about. I'm specifically asking about the depth of exploration expected from a new player before they complete the primary objective of the small game/demo.

Is it fine to stick to just the primary objective-critical maps? Or do you consider optional areas crucial to being able to fill in the atmospheric gaps and give your player some sense of agency?

And to that end, those who have addressed the exploration aspect directly seem to be of similar opinions that as long as the game showcases the primary features of gameplay the amount of actual exploration doesn't matter (unless the game is a sandbox game in which the exploration is a critical part of gameplay). I suppose as long as expectations are set from the get-go, the rest is kinda unimportant.

 

[OnslaughtSupply]

I think it's like we've all said a few times about picking the things you want to showcase in your demo and if the exploration is the thing you want to showcase then add that in. The optional areas I would personally leave in just so any potential players will see that there's so much more to explore that upon full release will be expecting explorable areas. I don't know if I would include all the secret areas though or too many secrets in general so you can leave something new for players who played the demo and end up playing the game. But conversely a secret or two might clue them in on that the full release will have them. It's a fine line.

In my latest demo I purposely left a few findable items in that have no baring on the demo' s game play, one as red herrings and two to make the player aware that there's so much more to explore and use in the full game and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Anyhow, good luck and happy game making