How much money have you actually made off a completed game?

[Matseb2611]

Yes, that is true, although what I also noticed is that you start creating a reputation around yourself for being the go-to person for a certain genre. This might also explain why long-time RM devs like Aldorlea have done so well, since they have a cut out genre and style which they stay faithful to, and even if it's not for everyone, their long-time fans keep coming back on a regular basis. I've been noticing the same with most of my releases over the past year or two. My brand is starting to become associated with dark near-future/sci-fi games and choice & consequence, and if I make any game that's outside those genres, it has less chances of doing well.

 

[jkweath]

Great posts @Matseb2611.

I like the idea of diversifying to different genres besides 'traditional JRPG'. Nothing wrong with that type of game of course, hell my first game and my second one will both fall under that category, but with how popular and easy its become to make a barebones jRPG now the market is extremely oversatured with them.

I almost want to compare it to the 80s video game crash. Nintendo managed to overcome the crash by calling their first system an "Entertainment System" instead of a video game system. I wonder if the trend now is that many gamers, especially Steam users, are becoming weary of the huge influx of RPGmaker games - because whether they're good or not, the vast majority of them are still JRPGs that have similar graphics and gameplay.

Perhaps an idea would be, while still keeping a game predominantly RPG, to put the emphasis on a secondary genre; sci-fi, romance, dinosaurs, nudity, whatever. I wonder if this is part of the reason why many, as I call, "sex appeal" RPGmaker games I've noticed have many sales despite all being generic RPGs: they put all the emphasis on the sex part and very little/none at all on the RPG part. Look up "The Chosen RPG" on steam if you get the chance; despite many reviews saying its a terrible game from the get-go, its still making far, far more money than the average RPGmaker game.

Of course, that could be because the game was released in a country where its genre is more popular. Or maybe the publisher advertised it really well, though I'm doubtful because the game's screenshots and trailer look downright dreadful. I don't know--but I like to think of the possibilities.

Edit: I should add that most of the RPGMaker games with big sales numbers I've looked up on SteamSpy came out within the last 2 years, meaning that these games somehow overcame the over-saturation bubble we're talking about now (despite some of them being relatively low-quality, such as The Chosen RPG I've mentioned a few times).

How some RPGmaker games take off on steam and why most fall by the wayside is a question I've been asking myself and researching as I work on my next game. My biggest observation so far is that game quality often doesn't dictate sales numbers. Obviously games like To The Moon, OneShot, etc are big names in the RPGMaker world, and for good reason, but there's a lot of high quality games out there that are relatively unknown, while there's many average/low-quality games that are making good money. My only theory for now is that these other games have an advertising budget, perhaps because some of them have actual publishers, and also because many of them emphasize other genres (especially nudity) over RPG/gameplay.

 

[Marquise*]

@Matseb2611 Ack... no Nail chapter in Atonement! :/

BTW everyone, haven't tried Renegade Ground yet, but I can tell the Atonement games are nice (I liked the twin stories of the original -and recurrent griffinboys-, and loved the skill mechanics of the second.) I am on Mercury now and so far from the same Outrage/City Of Chains universe, it is quite good and over the top! I am very curious about Renegade Ground because it is @Matseb2611 very first full voiced game experiment. Dangerous, but really gutsy so for a Chapter One, I have great expectation so I guess I will have to finish Mercury soon to tell everyone.

I can tell that what I like in those games, I know that everyone have to find their own gimmick to make a game tick. But in @Matseb2611 's case, trough his story telling, he does use very well tongue in the cheek and good use of recurring characters and suspense trough speedy escapes that get characters chased or need team well rounded out to accomplish a task and also a good attention to their equipment. ^^

I guess the very nicest part to game making is to be able to make a game, not the business part. So I guess if creativity in game making is your forte, you might need a good trusty business partner somewhere. One part might suck very fast the quality of the other part I guess. We cannot win in every fronts.

 

[Matseb2611]

@jkweath : I think the successful marketing campaigns are probably one of the biggest factors, especially if it's by publishers who have a good influence already. But yes, I agree that the different genres and styles can play a part too. I think with eye-candy games, they'll usually do better than those games which don't have eye-candy. And by eye-candy it could either be very pretty tilesets or it could be a hot babe on the front cover (or in-game). Visuals play a huge role in getting customers to notice and to buy the product, even if they end up not enjoying it. A great story will provide enjoyment, but it won't sell the game as well as pretty visuals would because many visitors to your game page probably won't even read the synopsis (also synopsis might not even do justice for the story itself).

Another thing is nostalgia or gaps in the market that help someone get a fix for their beloved genre. For example, sci-fi genre is definitely a lot less saturated than the medieval fantasy genre. There are some gaps in the market you can fill if you make a sci-fi game of a certain style. I think choice & consequence mechanics is another aspect with a huge gap in the market because not many devs are brave enough to go down that route (as it increases the workload drastically), and many that do, can't pull it off too well. There are other settings and types of gameplay that have big gaps in the market you can fill, whereas others are done so much that people are sick and tired of it. Traditional 16-bit chibi RPGs with standard levelling up is way too saturated now, so you need other ways of making your game stand out.

Even changing your character sprites from chibi to taller sprites is already bound to make a noticeable difference. I've had many players of my games mention either in discussion posts or on reviews that they appreciate taller character sprites as opposed to the generic chibis that most other RM games use.

@Marquise* : That's great to hear you're enjoying Mercury. Btw, Insincere was my first fully voiced game, but it wasn't an RM game, so I suppose from RM games, Renegade Grounds is the first voiced one.
You are absolutely right about finding a business partner who can cover for your weaknesses. We can't be good at everything. And even if we were, there's limited time. Marketing can take a lot of time, the time you can spend on game-making. So it's always worth hiring an agent or a publisher to do the marketing for you, so that you can concentrate on making the games.

 

[Marquise*]

@Matseb2611 Totally forgot Insincere... I thought my memory betrayed me and all was text kinda apart the robot. ^^ LOL (I was impressed then).

 

[coconutCream]

Basically they take the cornia off your eye and put a new one on.

I accidentally burned most of my cornea off about two years ago with vinegar. It hurt. Intensely. But then it grew back better than ever, and I briefly thought about doing the same thing to the other eye, but then realized two months of wearing an eye patch and groaning in pain when light leaked in was enough for one lifetime. Good times.

 

[coconutCream]

I suppose I should also say something about this actual thread so as not to go too far off topic (i.e. my post above).

I'm part of a two person team, and this will be our first RPG (woo! Excited!!!). We've been making and releasing our own highly niche games for 18 years, though, and living pretty much solely from independent game development.

So without saying exactly how much we've made, I will say that we have made enough to live a nice life and do nice things. It's possible to do it. Make the games you want to make, put love and creativity into them, and find the people who want to play them. That's what we've done, and plan to keep doing.

 

[Kes]

[dpost]coconutCream[/dpost]
I think a lot of people get caught by the 72 hours rule as many forums have 48.

If you want to add something, just use the edit button on your earlier post and include the additional comment/info there.

 

[coconutCream]

[dpost]coconutCream[/dpost]
I think a lot of people get caught by the 72 hours rule as many forums have 48.

okie doke. I'm on a lot of forums and yeah, 72 hours isn't what I expected. Did read through the rules when I signed up but there's a lot of them and easy to forget some when posting days apart. I'll keep it in mind, thanks for calling me out on it.

 

[BehemothTheBeast]

The suggestion that bgillisp made will work for some people, but not for others.
For example, I have never gone straight to Steam, but have successfully sold my games elsewhere for a couple of years first - at a higher price and without losing Steam's cut.

I have to agree with Kes here. I don't have a lot of experience selling games but I have talked to developers and they say the same thing here.

 

[FluffexStudios]

I would say that it will vary from game to game (a game with more polishes/unique idea will gather more attention) and depending on how your market it (i.e. through youtube, twitch, facebook, reddit, twitter, indiedb, gamedev forum). I would say steam is a very good platform for us in term of getting our game out there to public.

 

[Indinera]

1: Go to Steamspy

Steamspy is a disaster at estimating income, you'll end up VERY far off most of the time, so why bother with it at all?
It'll count as "owners" any and all giveaways keys, eg 200,000 free keys = 200,000 owners (and tons of games do take part in massive giveaways).
It'll count as "owners" bundle sales that may have made $100 for 10,000 keys used ( = 10,000 owners, by the logic of Steamspy).
It'll count equally a sale at full price and a sale at 90% off.
Steamspy is a flat-out disaster if you want to evaluate income, there is no way you want to estimate anything at all out of it.

They're not. For the record, they have been wrong in over 10k or more about my games in the past. I'd not go by Steamspy about anything.

Same here. But even if the number of owners was accurate, which it is not always, it'll still be impossible to evaluate income from it.
And seriously who cares about the "number of owners" when tons of games have 80-90% of their owners through either free giveaways or bundles sales at $0.1 per copy tops. It's artificially inflated. Owners is not remotely the same as sales (let alone income), it's about time everybody realizes the big masquerade Steamspy is.

 

[hp4000]

Lots of great info! Thanks for sharing!
I'm 50/50 on releasing on Steam. It have a game ready to go AND it seems like a good investment, but on the other hand if I'm new, I dunno...

 

[Indinera]

You have nothing to lose.

 

[Plueschkatze]

Just for the sake of quality on steam (because it's getting flooooded), just check if your game would be good enough for yourself to buy it.
And be honest with yourself. If you yourself wouldn't buy a game of similar looks and quality, than maybe don't upload it to steam...
If your game was basically "testing out stuff" than maybe take what you learned and make a great game with that.
But this is just my opinion, if anyone disagrees and feels like "yeah, but better the chance so make a 5$ win than doing nothing with the game" it's fine, I'm just saying that it might not be healthy for the platform to upload everything you've done.

 

[jkweath]

Lots of great info! Thanks for sharing!
I'm 50/50 on releasing on Steam. It have a game ready to go AND it seems like a good investment, but on the other hand if I'm new, I dunno...

Practically no reason not to! The markets tough but its not difficult to at least make your $100 deposit back.

@Indinera you made an important point about SteamSpy some of us missed, that many of the "owners" it lists may have received free keys. It also counts everyone who installs the game on Free Weekends as owners IIRC.

Overall judging from SteamSpys about page, it gives a somewhat accurate representation about the number of OWNERS semi-popular games have, but for estimating income or actual owners who bought the game, you just can't, it doesn't have that data.

 

[Indinera]

Just for the sake of quality on steam (because it's getting flooooded)

Exactly, that's why it won't matter much if he adds his own (even if it's not good, which is generally subjective anyway).

@Indinera you made an important point about SteamSpy some of us missed, that many of the "owners" it lists may have received free keys. It also counts everyone who installs the game on Free Weekends as owners IIRC.

What do you think? Some "high profile" RM games with so-called hundreds of thousands of "sales" have in reality 80%-90% of that accomplished through free and $0.1 bundle keys.

Overall judging from SteamSpys about page, it gives a somewhat accurate representation about the number of OWNERS semi-popular games have, but for estimating income or actual owners who bought the game, you just can't, it doesn't have that data.

Indeed, what's the point of putting together sales, discount sales (the bulk of it at 90% off), bundle sales and free giveaways? Yeah, none. It's, exactly, pointless. Which perfectly describes Steamspy.

 

[FluffexStudios]

Lots of great info! Thanks for sharing!
I'm 50/50 on releasing on Steam. It have a game ready to go AND it seems like a good investment, but on the other hand if I'm new, I dunno...

I think there is no reason not to try out steam, it's not too difficult to get back $100 investment made on steam direct. You'll get a lot publicity just having it on steam and usually that's what a lot of indie games need. Also, it doesn't matter whether you are new or not, you'll be able to build a reputation on steam from your game release and gain a fan base that way.

 

[jkweath]

Just for the sake of quality on steam (because it's getting flooooded), just check if your game would be good enough for yourself to buy it.

See, myself and many others feel the same way, but as @Indinera pointed out, quality is subjective. I've pointed out a certain game a few times in this thread already (The Chosen RPG) which IMO, and many reviewers, see as a "low quality game" - however, it's worth pointing out the game still has a "mostly positive" rating on Steam, so either many more people felt they got their money's worth or that game has a lot of fake reviews.

Funny thing, though--that game has a sequel that, from reading user views, bombed pretty badly--apparently the loads of eye candy couldn't make up for the overall low quality of the game itself that time.

What do you think? Some "high profile" RM games with so-called hundreds of thousands of "sales" have in reality 80%-90% of that accomplished through free and $0.1 bundle keys.

Indeed, what's the point of putting together sales, discount sales (the bulk of it at 90% off), bundle sales and free giveaways? Yeah, none. It's, exactly, pointless. Which perfectly describes Steamspy.

I wonder if there's a way to know what percentage of a game's owners got the game for free or from a cheap bundle? Would certainly explain some of the high numbers I've seen for some games.

Also, I suppose that there is another way to gauge a Steam game's success outside of using SteamSpy, and that's looking at the game's reviews, specifically the number of reviews. It's definitely not an accurate estimator, but I'd say a game with 100 reviews (positive or not) probably sold many more copies than a game with 10 reviews. I think Steam points out too that, when it says how many reviews a game has, that number is from people who paid for the game. Steam labels reviews from people who got the game for free, I could be wrong but I don't think they count free reviews in the review count.

 

[VisitorsFromDreams]

I see a lot of positivity towards steam in this thread but speaking to a lot of other indie devs I hear a lot more negative than I do about steam in its current state.

This recent video by Jim Sterling regarding the game Blossom Tales is a good example (and one of many many examples)

The reality is that Steam is oversaturated with hundreds of games released on it every week at this point in time and its only getting worse. Its all well and good to say that with the right marketing you can get your game seen by people but at this point even thats harder than ever. Recommendations arent as helpful as you would think. (I get recommended a lot of RPG Maker games through steams algorthym and they are ALL generally softcore porn games or lazy looking asset flips, thats despite the fact the only RPG maker games I own on steam are Ara Fell, LiEat, LISA, Hylics, One Shot, Soma Spirits and Suits: A Business RPG. Tell me why the steam algorythm is recommending me cheap garbage rtp porn games based on my purchase history outside of the fact they share the rpgmaker tag? It can only because those soft core porn games are the biggest sellers with the rpgmaker tag right?) The whole system is a mess. I know a lot of people hope that RPG Maker one day supports some sort of console publishing, the appstore was a nice idea but its not where the audience for these games are generally, I don't think anyone is going to really be able to make a career out of making RPG Maker games (outside of ******* and crowdfunding) unless the engine allows for publishing to other platforms in the future.

That said, I have only released one game to date and I got over $100 in donations on itch.io despite the fact I released it for free. The type of game you make and the sort of audience it attracts obviously has some bearing on things.