How much money have you actually made off a completed game?

[Marquise*]

Nice considerations to keep in mind.

 

[Matseb2611]

@VisitorsFromDreams : I've seen that video too recently, but stuff like that is difficult to judge from just one example. I do agree with Jim Sterling that Steam has gotten really saturated as of late with low quality stuff by devs who just want to make a quick buck by releasing games which are barely functional but offer virtually nothing at all, and also that its algorithm is rubbish and that Steam needs some human input.

However, some things to keep in mind. Just because that one game did much better on Switch than on Steam doesn't mean that if you were to say go the same route then you'll be able to replicate its success. Nintendo consoles audience usually has vastly different taste in games than the Steam audience. That game is very Zelda-esque in its look and gameplay, which is likely a HUGE factor for why it did so well on the Switch but not so much on Steam where majority of gamers prefer western-style aesthetics and gameplay.
Another reason is because Switch is still quite a new console and so it doesn't have all too many games on it yet. So any new releases have better chances to be noticed... for now. But how long will that last? In a year's time, this could be drastically different.

 

[bgillisp]

@Matseb2611 sums it up well. Unless you got a game that is ready for release NOW for the switch, by the time you finish one the gold rush for the switch will most likely be over. Most of those trends only last 1 - 2 years, if you are lucky.

In fact, I heard a saying once that sums this up perfectly: "The secret to success is to find what everyone else is doing, and then try something else."

 

[jkweath]

I think that, overall, Steam is still probably the best bet for commercial RPGM gamedevs despite its many issues. It'll be up to the developers to find ways around these issues - whether that's switching up the genre a bit or having a different theme (sci-fi instead of medieval traditional JRPG for example) or putting a bit more spending and research into marketing.

Gone are the days (assuming they existed to begin with) when you could just put a game on Steam with no further action and get good exposure; I learned that the hard way and it seems many others around here have learned that as well. Developers will need to do their due diligence and either find a publisher or be willing to research how to market their game and be willing to spend quite a bit of money doing so.

 

[Matseb2611]

That's pretty much it. Every market seems to be saturated or in the process of becoming saturated. I hear mobile games market is also saturated enough that it's hard to get noticed, and probably even harder to convince people to actually buy your game due to much higher ratio of casual gamers to serious ones on there.

And a problem with places like itch.io, gamejolt, etc is that majority of the games on them are free, so when your game is commercial, you're already at a huge disadvantage, because people always prefer to go for free stuff, especially when it's in such abundance. The moment you ask even for just $1, your potential customer-base drops massively.

 

[jkweath]

I hear mobile games market is also saturated enough that it's hard to get noticed, and probably even harder to convince people to actually buy your game due to much higher ratio of casual gamers to serious ones on there.

Been meaning to mention the mobile market. What I'm about to say is from personal experience, so if anyone else has a different experience, let me know. But anyway...

Unless you have a lot of money to drop on marketing, it is a 100% waste of time to develop an RPGM game for mobile devices. Unlike Steam, when you put an app on the Google Play Store, it is instantly buried under all the other apps. You get no exposure whatsoever; Google will only give you exposure once you hit a certain threshold of purchases and positive reviews (which, of course, you can't get because no one can see your game because it's buried!)

I read that most app publishers use a PPI (pay-per-install) service to "boost" their app. Basically, you spend maybe, as an example, $1000 to get ~10,000 downloads, some positive reviews, and so on so your app actually receives exposure. I think it's technically not allowed from Google's standpoint, but everything I've read suggests it's actually common practice to do this. But, while this works for free apps with in-app purchases, it probably wouldn't work as well for anyone with a paid app--so unless you can develop a free mobile RPGM game that somehow incorporates in-app purchases (or has ads, which apparently someone did develop a plugin for that), you may as well not bother.

 

[Matseb2611]

You get no exposure whatsoever; Google will only give you exposure once you hit a certain threshold of purchases and positive reviews (which, of course, you can't get because no one can see your game because it's buried!)

You know, nowadays Steam is very similar to it, though maybe not quite as extreme. You're bound to miss a lot of good gems because the new algorithm wouldn't show you those games that haven't reached a certain threshold of number of reviews. I don't know what the exact threshold is, but it's safe to say that a game with 100 reviews will be promoted much more than one with only 10, even if the one with 10 has a better ratio of positive to negative. That makes it much harder to get noticed, because popular stuff gets even more popular and unknown stuff sinks even deeper into obscurity.

 

[jkweath]

@Matseb2611 right, and its a real shame too because it might mean people start resorting to a sort of PPI service similar to what Android app developers do. I guess none of it would be an issue if not for the massive number of games being released almost daily.

I'm not completely against the method because it does help sort out the rabble, i.e. people that just throw something together to make a quick buck, but of course it comes with the problem of also burying games that could be genuinely good l, but that the developer just doesn't have the money or skills to market their game to break that threshold.

That's why I'm of the opinion right now that any RPGM user here looking to go commercial will absolutely need to spend time finding a publisher or learning how to market and advertise their game if they want any hope of commercial success. Obviously having those skills has always been useful and somewhat needed, but it's required now more than ever due to the ever-faster expanding game market, especially the 2d RPG market.

 

[Matseb2611]

Yes, exactly. It needs a better system, because you literally have maybe a week or two after the game's release to gain as many positive reviews as possible (or any reviews for that matter, so long as you boost the total number of them and keep the overall score above 70%!) while your game is still visible among the new releases. After that, there's no way someone will find it unless you've gained enough reviews or someone stumbles onto it by accident.
So the first week since release has become much more crucial nowadays than before.

 

[hp4000]

What type of marketing does a publisher do vs. what an individual can do? Can you buy ads for your game on Steam?

 

[Plueschkatze]

The biggest difference between a publisher and yourself~
... a publisher is usually already part of the market and has a following.
... people know other games published by the publisher and might think "Oh, this one might be like those I liked!"
... publishers do have some connections that might be helpful, might it be press or other devs.
... be aware that not all publishers are good ones! Always look at what they ask from you and what they actually do for you (and want in return).
... publishers usually have more money as you, so they can invest into ads. (Facebook, webpages, twitter, whatever)
... publisher take some of the paperwork for you, which also makes it a bit harder to understand all the figures, as far as I know? (Like real salesnumbers etc? Tho that miiight vary!)
... they might have more experience with crowdfunding than you.
... they probably know a lot more about marketing than you.

You can do ads yourself. But they are costy.
You can contact press yourself, but if a publisher has a good friend on IGN or Kotaku or "that site you want to be on" it's more likely that they'll cover your game.
A publisher could have contacts to the big Youtubers or Streamers, but you can also just send them a nice, short email with a key.
You can do marketing, even some that costs you little money and might do the trick... but it is hard work. Work that ads onto everything you have to do for your game already ;3
And you can do crowdfunding on your own... but it will consume time and energy. And is a lot of work.

Also...
If you work with a publisher, expect deadlines.


I don't know if you can buy ad space on steam, tho.
I guess some of these "Square Enix Weekend-Deals" etc. are something like that, but I don't know 100%.
Other than that I'm not aware of any ads aside from the pop-up window once you start steam.

 

[jkweath]

I think @Plueschkatze pretty well explained it, I thought about trying but I've never had a publisher and don't know much about them.

I suppose the #1 thing to remember about having a publisher is that they will essentially take a sizeable portion of your game's sales in exchange for doing all the marketing for you--and since its their job to market, they'll probably do a much better job than an individual indie gamedev would.

That's not to say its always the best idea to have a publisher. They're not for everyone, and there's some pretty large indie game developers out there who self publish and do a great job of it. I've thought about finding a publisher myself, but I'm not sure where I'd even look or if a publisher would be right for me and my development style.

 

[hp4000]

Thanks for all the information!

Bottom line, no matter where you post your game, it will never be easy. But you have to persevere through all the obstacles if game development is what you really want!

I think this is something everyone should read if you want to sell your games:
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132296/postmortem_riverman_medias_.php

This is a post-mortem for the 3rd Party Nintendo WiiWare game MadStone. The game released in October 2008, and the article was posted on January 14, 2009, almost ten years ago! Even though this article is almost a decade old, many of the principles still apply! Read and learn!

 

[Marquise*]

@hp4000 I read it! I guess some things never changes but it is nice to see all lessons learned there (I do hope they are still in business and kicking; I haven't verified.)

 

[hp4000]

@hp4000 I read it! I guess some things never changes but it is nice to see all lessons learned there (I do hope they are still in business and kicking; I haven't verified.)

Yep! They're still around making mobile games! You can check them out on twitter @rivermanmedia !

 

[Kes]

@hp4000 This is getting off-topic.