How much of this script can I delete without breakage?

[Violet]

So honestly, I don't know where this question belongs. I don't want a whole new script; I want to know how to turn off lines of an existing script without breaking it.


The problem is that the existing script I do want relies on another one that I don't want. So my question is which lines of Yanfly's Save Engine I could turn off without breaking the Yanfly New Game + script that relies on it, so that I can get rid of as many of the Save Engine's changes as possible. I want to make it as much as possible like the default RM save functionality, just with the ability to use New Game +. I'd prefer to use these particular scripts, to be sure that it's compatible with the other Yanfly scripts I'm using.


I mean, it really doesn't have to be perfect-- if the answer is like, "Well, you can turn off this one thing but you're stuck with the rest," or "This is easy to get rid of but the rest is too complicated," then I'll just make the easy changes and leave it at that. It's vital for me to get New Game + to run, and the rest is just cosmetic preference. But if it turns out that it's pretty easy to delete most of the Save Engine and just leave a thing or two that makes the New Game + script depend on it, then that's the ideal for me. Can anybody help me out with this?


Again, I'm sorry if this isn't the place to post this question. I'm new to this forum and its sprawling tree of nested subforums, and for some reason the structure of it makes my head spin. if there's a more appropriate place to ask for people to help me tweak an existing script that isn't my own, rather than write a new one, I couldn't find it. But not from lack of trying.

 

[Shaz]

tbh I'd just look for a New Game + script that's not part of Yanfly's suite, if you don't want to use Yanfly's other scripts.  I know there are others out there.

 

[Violet]

I do want to use several of Yanfly's other scripts, though-- in fact, enough of my game is built around them that it's not really negotiable at this point.

 

[Kes]

I think what was meant was that if you don't want the Save Engine functionality, then look for another Game+ script, not ditch all the Yanfly scripts that you are using.


As Yanfly's scripts are so popular, I think you will find that most scripts will be compatible with them.  The only exceptions that I can think of are Victor Sant's scripts, and I don't think he does a Game+ script anyway.

 

[Violet]

Hmm okay. I've heard so much about compatibility issues, it made it sound like you couldn't combine two things together without just breaking it all. Like, every support/bug thread talks so much about how a lot of the bugs are compatibility issues, it made me think everything would crash if I so much as poked it sideways. Or worse, mess up something non-obvious that I wouldn't realize was coming from the scripts. But I can try, if you think it's likely it'll work fine, without introducing some insidious bug that I wouldn't find until halfway through the game when everyone's faces turn into Hi-Potions... ;D

 

[Shaz]

Which would be easier to fix ... a compatibility problem because you added a script that doesn't work with Yanfly's, or a problem you introduced yourself by deleting a heap of stuff from Yanfly's scripts?


Worst case scenario - if you have compatibility issues and you post asking for help with them, and nobody can help you (allowing enough time for people to look into it), then you remove the extra script.

 

[Andar]

Just for your info - you cannot simply delete lines n a script and expect it to work at all after that. You would have to rewrite parts of the script to disable those lines first - and if you had enough programing knowledge to do that, you wouldn't have asked in the first place.


Because a rewrite like thatt is usually much more work than a compatibility fix, which is why it was suggested to look for another script.

 

[Violet]

Which would be easier to fix ... a compatibility problem because you added a script that doesn't work with Yanfly's, or a problem you introduced yourself by deleting a heap of stuff from Yanfly's scripts?

That is a question worth asking. Because, actually, I would have thought it would be the latter? Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to think that the answer should have been obvious, and the one you're implying isn't the obvious one to me at all.


(Here's why I would have thought the latter would be easier: Everything I've heard about compatibility problems makes it sound like they happen because of stuff that happens under RPGMaker's hood where we don't know what is in there. Therefore, a compatibility problem wouldn't be something that was easy to understand. Whereas if I caused a bug by deleting some lines, it would probably be something simple like "see, what you didn't understand is that this thing is using that other thing, so you didn't actually get all the parts out that expected other parts," which sounds to me like an easy fix for anyone who knows how it works. I think that if I had to rely on myself to fix it, I would have an easier time fixing a mistake I introduced, just by comparing it with the original to see what I had altered. Can you explain why it isn't that way? This isn't an argument; this is me asking why it would be so.)


Of course, regardless of which is easier, I wouldn't want to introduce a problem either way. Which is why I came here and asked, instead of just doing something I wasn't sure about. That way there wouldn't be any problems to fix at all. Because:
 

Worst case scenario - if you have compatibility issues and you post asking for help with them, and nobody can help you (allowing enough time for people to look into it), then you remove the extra script.

I was under the impression that nobody would help with script compatibility issues, because every help thread on scripts that I've looked at is like "well, it's just a compatibility thing," and they leave it at that and there's no more help. So my impression is that if you have a script compatibility problem, you are SOL. (In which case, does it even matter which is easier to fix? Why would someone coming in to this from the outside think it mattered to compare them, if they knew they wouldn't be able to fix either?)

Just for your info - you cannot simply delete lines n a script and expect it to work at all after that. You would have to rewrite parts of the script to disable those lines first - and if you had enough programing knowledge to do that, you wouldn't have asked in the first place.

Well... actually, that's an overstatement. The whole script is not that complicated, just some parts of it. There are at least some lines where I do understand what they are doing by looking at them, and they can be easily taken out, and I did. And there may be more. I don't understand the whole thing, no, which is why I asked instead of (as Shaz put it) just going and deleting a heap of stuff that I didn't understand. I do have enough programming knowledge to know that some of what I was asking for could be removed without writing any code. And it's fine that nobody wants to; of course you're not obliged to do anything; but... what you said, that you can't just delete any of it without having to rewrite stuff, isn't really accurate.


I'm not trying to argue that you guys should help me, by the way. It's already clear that compatibility isn't as big of a deal as I was given to think it was, and so I'll look for another script. My point in my last post (and this one) was not, "you should help me"; my point was to make the community aware that the sheer amount of disclaimer piled on disclaimer is a discouragement for people to even try mixing scripts. If I'm getting the impression that I should never do something, and that thing is the correct answer to my problem, then... it seems like there is misinformation going around, in the form of really strong disclaimers that make things sound more extreme than they are. So I'm just trying to make you aware of what isn't obvious to someone new.

 

[Andar]

the problem with compatibility patches is simply that the person writing them need to understand both scripts to find the parts where they interfere with each other.


This was a lot more problematic in the distant past, before some standards were established and before the backtracer script was written (a script that will list all scripts involved in an error instead of the default error message which only give the last line number).

 

[Shaz]

Note that most of what I am saying here is my response to your particular issue in this thread.  Whether I would suggest finding a new script or modifying an existing one depends entirely on the scripts involved and the reason for adding/modifying.  So my suggestions below should not be read as a general response for all situations.


You're right - I'm implying it would be easier to fix a compatibility issue caused by adding a script than by modifying one.  Compatibility issues usually aren't caused by behind-the-scenes stuff that we don't know about (I'm thinking you mean the engine itself and not the scripts, here).  They are caused by two different scripts that do different things to the same "part" of the game, and what each one does conflicts with the other.  There are probably actually several kinds of compatibility issues, but they always come down to multiple scripts not playing together nicely.


If you add a different script that does NewGame+ and it causes problems, the solution is to remove the script.  It puts you back where you were, but you're not left with something broken that you have to figure out how to fix.  If you use a script that has NewGame+ and a lot of other stuff that you don't want, and you start deleting lines left, right and centre, if it causes problems it's harder to resolve - you have to remember what you deleted, decide whether it could be the cause of the issue, and put it back in the right place, making sure not to make any mistakes.  If you comment it out rather than delete it, at least you've still got the original line in the correct place, but you still have to figure out if it should be there or not.  And of course, you could just delete the script altogether and re-add an unmodified version, which puts you back where you were as well.


I think the best approach to using scripts is to find a script that most closely does what you want (ie - a script that does JUST NewGame+ without a heap of other stuff) and see if it works with the scripts you're using.  The more simple the script, the less the chance of compatibility issues, and if you do have any, it's likely going to be easier to locate and resolve them.


As far as being on your own with compatibility issues, I don't really know.  Maybe you see a lot that say "compatibility issues" and no solutions because people insist on putting so many unnecessary scripts into their games without thinking about that ahead of time, and there are so many people posting about compatibility issues.  Those people probably recognize them for what they are, and state as much, but don't have the skills to provide any help. There aren't many scripters here, and we'd prefer to solve simpler problems, or those relating to things we're familiar with.  Thing is - you won't know if you don't try, and if you do try and get no help, then you can still remove the script and go with something else.  In either case, you're going to need help from someone, so it's not a bad idea to try the easier options first.  I would personally prefer to fix a compatibility issue between one of Yanfly's scripts and another simple script that does one single thing, than to try and hack apart one of Yanfly's scripts that does a whole heap of stuff, to make it only do a single thing.

 

[Violet]

Knowing that is half the battle. No, more like 90% of the battle. Everything I read made it sound much harder.