How NOT to run a Indie company...

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by JtheDuelist, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    After today's actions, ATeam (the creators of Unison League) have shown us all how NOT to run a Indie game company- the amount of backlash they have received from this decision is absolutely insane, and I have to agree.

    Since I suck at explaining things, I'll let these quotes from Reddit explain the situation at hand:
    Note from me: these SSR tickets they are going to give in compensation have been notorious for years of being flat-out terrible to begin with.


    You can read more about their decision here (if you can get past all the "403 Forbidden" errors the site has been giving since the announcement): https://forum.a-tm.co.jp/forum/unis...important-sword-oratoria-sr-or-higher-tickets
    Tens of thousands of fans are deciding to quit the game if ATeam actually puts this into action, and many more already have quit.

    Moral of this story: Don't be like ATeam.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  2. Archeia

    Archeia Level 99 Demi-fiend Staff Member Developer

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    This does not really tell us much especially if we don't play Unison league. I think it will be beneficial to edit your post so it doesn't look like you're trying to incite drama/boycotting.
     
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  3. mlogan

    mlogan Global Moderators Global Mod

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    It might help if you explain a bit more. Knowing nothing about this game and what tickets mean, the only thing I get from it is a company trying to fix a problem and compensate its members, which does not seem like a bad thing. I realize that it is probably more complicated than that, but without any context of meaning, I don't see the issue.

    edit: ninja'd
     
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  4. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    #4
  5. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    more than "how to not run an indie company" this looks like a case of "why to do proper beta testing before release"
    it's not the company's fault that the rate of items was too high, it's the coding team's!
    when seen as a whole, looks like the promotion was solid, except for that excess of items.
     
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  6. Churro

    Churro Veteran Veteran

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    Even if some people will hate me now:
    If someone is so stupid enough to spend a lot of money for a digital nonexistant content(with no additional gameplay) it's his own fault...
    I say nothing about buying a loot box from time to time - BUT by buying this stuff you support the developers to do actions like ATeam.
    My advice: Dont by ever loot boxes, tickets or any In-Game money and all will be happy :wub (ok the devs not XD)
     
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  7. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    Then there were the 2 months of bugs PRIOR to the collab, where spawns were false advertisement (featured gear that could not be obtained were in the spawns' advertisements anyway), group missions were completely gone for two full weeks (we only got a single gem for this error, when normally these group missions would have given 14~17 gems in that two week timespan), PvP matches were completely off-balance (they always had been, but that case was more so than usual)- just to name a few we have had in a two-month timespan.
    Also, this game already had this collab in Japan before the rest of the world, they had similar spawn results, but they didn't do this to their Japanese player base at all.
     
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  8. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    I don't see how else they could have handled the original problem.
    They had to get rid of the mass of overpowered items, or they would loose the players that paid regular price for similiar items. And that would hurt the company more, because it would be their top payers.

    so whatever the solution, there had to be a down-powering of those players, and that would always cause protest.
    and contrary to the opinion posted by one user, it would have been impossible for them to correct that first day - you need a large statistical base to even detect such problems, then you have to go through coding and testing a fix while the financial department decides on what to offer for compensation.

    The only question that no one caan answer and that has any real bearing is if the compensation is adequate or not.
    As said above there will always be people who protest even the tiniest amount taken from their accounts, so that is not something that can be decided on based on some internet rants - 90% of people who disagree post about it, but only 10% of the people who are satisfied. Those numbers have been proven time and time again in statistics, and you need to keep them in mind when reading about such cases.
     
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  9. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    @Andar Except Google and their support team themselves have told the people that, by law, the devs are not allowed to do recall spawned gear so long as Google Play Store is hosting the game, as this person's screenshot revealed: .
    Also, the ENTIRE player base is complaining with zero satisfaction- the free-to-play players are complaining, the light spenders are complaining, even the "whales" (aka the big spenders) are complaining that their ticket spawned stuff will be taken away- yeah, zero satisfaction is showing up here...
     
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  10. Zalerinian

    Zalerinian Jack of all Errors Veteran

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    Alright, well let me ask you this, if there's a problem with what everyone else has been saying, what should an indie company - a company who by definition doesn't have a giant bank account to allow themselves to make a mistake that costs them money - do in the event of this level of crisis, @JtheDuelist ?


    EDIT: Wait... This is what the company posted as for what they were doing:
    [​IMG]

    1. They're fixing the issue so more tickets from the event aren't broken
    2. The gear received from these broken tickets is being recalled - it will be removed from your account
    3. (2b) If you used an item you got from the broken ticket in, essentially, a crafting recipe, you will get back all other items and gold that were in said recipe.
    4. For every 5 broken "SR Tickets" you got, you get 1 "SSR Ticket" (which probably means Super Super Rare instead of Super Rare (SR), or equivalent)
    So honestly... what are you losing here? They're admitting they made a mistake and I see no problem with their solution. They're not removing the items from your account and saying, "Oops, sorry, that sucks, deal with it", it's, "Well crap, we messed up, but you're not going to lose anything because of it. In fact, have some stuff because we messed up!"


    So really, where's all the outrage and drama coming from...?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  11. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    Reply to #1- They fixed the tickets this morning, so doing more than that is unnecessary excess.
    Reply to #2- As I showed in a previous screenshot, if the developers DO recall the gear (even if they do compensation), they broke the laws/rules as set by the app stores that host the app, which can lead to them losing more money via lawsuits than loss of paying players.
    Reply to #3/2b- Players have limited item storage, and many have spent several full inventories worth of upgrade materials to upgrade the collab gear- limited storage in this matter means players aren't receiving/can't receive their FULL supply of returned materials.
    Reply to #4- They didn't say if these compensation tickets will be collab SSR Tickets that will pull collab or the notoriously bad standard SSR Tickets that only spawn everyday, non-special SSRs. So we'll still have to wait and see on that.
     
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  12. Archeia

    Archeia Level 99 Demi-fiend Staff Member Developer

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    Isn't the outrage too premature then? I thought the entire issue is that the gears are already recalled but that didn't seem to be the case.
     
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  13. JtheDuelist

    JtheDuelist Just a dev who actually got a game finished Veteran

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    They fixed the tickets this morning THEN put out the notice about the gear recall AFTER the tickets had been fixed- wouldn't it be wiser to just let the gear that is already in people's inventories stay, especially given the fact that the paid players are just going to regain the PvP advantage within a few days when the next big spawns hit and are ones that free-to-play players can't do, which is always the case in this game.
     
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  14. Zalerinian

    Zalerinian Jack of all Errors Veteran

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    That's a half-baked solution... It's like a company keeping quite a security breach, or even what Apple did with slowing down iPhones. The problem was fixed in Apple's eyes, so they stopped there. Whoops


    I won't accept this argument until I am able to read the specific license agreement/terms provided by Google for developers on the platform in regards to this type of issue. It would be different if they were just removing the items and not returning anything, but that is not the case here.

    Storage limitations posed by this issue are something that they will need to address, but that's not enough to spark a public outcry like you seem to be looking for. The type of SSR ticket that they choose to reimburse you with is also up to their discretion, but take care and reread that sentence... the type of SSR ticket that they choose to reimburse you with. They are giving you something for free as an apology, and you're here being upset because you want more than
    1. What you already had to begin with (You didn't lose anything, remember)
    2. Something they're giving to you for free because they made a mistake.

    The event was bugged, presumably from launch on January 18th, and was fixed the morning of January 22nd (4 days, worst case scenario). The event continues on until the first of February, which means there are 9 more days where the issues have been fixed, which means plenty of time to get the tickets that have been fixed.

    As mentioned by Archeia, it's still a bit early to be raging about anything. Your argument of
    is also a half-baked solution. See my first point again about a security breach, or Apple's pending lawsuits over the slowdown issue. You don't solve an issue and then pretend it's gone for good, and that's not what they're doing. They solved the issue, they're being upfront about it, and they have outlined their path forward. If you choose to discontinue playing the game, don't do it because you think it'll leave them bleeding. They may be indie, but they still have an ecosystem of over 8 million people to keep balanced and entertained.
     
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  15. xdan

    xdan Veteran Veteran

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    You know, the solution I'd have gone for here is a bit sutile and kind of evil: release a small expansion to the game with new rare gear so good that it shifts the meta and leaves the previous items outdated and unefficient in comparison. I know of some companies that actually do this.

    Btw many of you have said you don't get the problem. Imagine if, in the lottery, lots of people get a million prize. Then, the company decides that, since that's too much money to give away, they are cancelling the validity of the tickets and exchanging them for tickets that are worth a lot less. Of course people would get mad- it's actually illegal, in fact.
     
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  16. barnzie8

    barnzie8 Veteran Veteran

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  17. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    nothing ever anywhere is really "free to play". the real meaning of that word sequence is always "someone else pays for you playing".
    And if a gme does not get enough of "someone else" to pay, then it will stop working and its servers will be shut down as proof that it never was really free.

    That is where any player has to make a choice. And simply demanding "it has to be free", no matter what the situation, will only result in the game being shut down if there is not enough paying for the servers to continue to run.

    No, there are never perfect situaation when money is involved - but you can't have the game servers running without someone paying for those servers, and for development of the software running on them.
    The players can decide if the payment options are something they can live with, and as a result the company providing the game has to decide if the money they get is enough to continue providing that service or to shut down the game.

    That is something everyone should keep in mind when talking about "free to play"
     
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