How old should a new Hero be?

[Ksi]

There's nothing wrong with people heading out into the world in their teens. Hell, if the story demands it, a child could be a decent hero providing they are dealt with appropriately.

I've used all ages - from 7 year olds to teens (young and older) to middle-aged heroes and even an old woman in one case. Age doesn't matter as long as the character fits into the story and is fleshed out enough to be seen to have real reasons for their journey.

 

[sabao]

Everything in context. As Archeia has essentially pointed out, age is just a number. Cultures across the world are different, and personal experiences vary per individual. Certain circumstances force children to grow up, because they have no other choice. Some children are just inherently more perceptive about certain things, and there's no denying there are children that are more sensible/mature than some adults.

I don't buy into the '13-15 year olds can't...' mindset because crap does happen. All the time. Events affecting an individual will naturally derive a reaction from said person, so when a proper motivation is applied then (almost) any character regardless of age would still make sense. They won't be nearly as experienced or even competent at what they do as an older person might be, but there's no law saying they can't try.

I believe RPGs are journies of personal and interpersonal growth. As far as theories go, I believe that apart from core demographics (meaning the age range authors believe most likely will play/watch their stuff, which you may also consider when picking how old your cast should be), younger characters have a more malleable sense of self. They haven't figured out their place in the world yet or who they are quite yet. I suppose a blank slate like that would be attractive (or easier) to write for a long-form plot that RPGs are usually made of.

 

[Eschaton]

OP:  "All I can say in answer is that cliches BECAME cliches because they work for the majority of people. Not all people, but the majority."

You are mistaken, sir.  A trope is a literary element that is accepted and expected to be seen again by a reader/audience/player.  A cliche is a trope.  It's a trope that has been done to death and people are tired of seeing.

Again, the more you know...

And knowing is half the battle

G. I. JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOE

 

[Kes]

I think that several ideas have become mixed up with each other, so I'm going to separate out a couple of them.

Yes, it is true that in past cultures and a few present-day cultures, you became an adult at 13 - in the sense that you had to take on certain very specific roles and responsibilities.  However, you would have been trained up with the expectation of meeting those roles and responsibilities.  To have it thrust upon you unprepared at 13 is an entirely different thing.

Next, we do not experience other cultures and times unmediated.  They are always perceived and interpreted through the prism of our own culture and experiences - something that cultural anthropologists are very aware of.  Therefore we need to note that some things will inevitably colour our view of what was/is done.  I, for example, with the knowledge of what it does to a person to be forced to become a child-soldier (many instances of this in the world today) would be very uncomfortable with a 13 year old forced by circumstances to become a fighter.  I suspect I am not the only one.

Plausibility: sorry, but even a fit 13 year old will not have the body bulk to heave around big swords, shields and armour.  In medieval times you didn't become a full knight until you were 21 - and look at the shape of the armour from that time to understand how much upper body strength was required.  I know RPGs do not go down the realism route, which is why I used the word plausibility.  Furthermore, the brain is still growing, synapses are still being formed etc., up until about 18.  This has a direct impact on cognitive functions and emotional balance.  You would be asking your hero to do things that no 13 year old could plausibly (that word again) do. 

I think the point about cliché has already been made, so I won't repeat it, just endorse it.

 

[Cadh20000]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. My game idea was just ONE EXAMPLE, intended to be ONE AMONG MANY as people gave their own examples to support their own viewpoints.

For those who want to make more of it, I never claimed the rough concept wasn't cliche, it is the details that make it good or bad though. A well done cliche can still be entertaining. If you don't believe this, then just don't play it. Nobody is forcing you.

I'll try to address the points that people keep bringing up one more time, but all at once this time instead of spreading it out as people ask. Not that it is likely to be noticed past the next post though.

Spoiler

Killing is a last resort reserved for bosses who WON'T surrender or retreat, or the main character if the badguys get a hold of him.

The only swords used in the game are lightweight fencing foils, not heavier swords. Most (though not all) weaponry is upgraded sports, and chemistry lab, equipment. 

There is no heavy metal armor at all.

As to the story: Apprenticeships routinely began during what we would now consider to be early childhood. The STORY itself takes place in the modern world, but revolves around an unusual APPRENTICESHIP and the consequences thereof.

He has basically shown a talent for magic by successfully casting an (apprentice-level) spell with only book-study, no actual guidance. The badguys want him as THEIR apprentice, he has refused them. So instead he has, as his master, the newly awakened magical artifact that was only intended as a teaching TOOL, not a teacher in its own right. The badguys don't want him being raised in such a way that would result in him becoming a future competitor for their group and want him dead instead.

 

[Archeia]

Plausibility: sorry, but even a fit 13 year old will not have the body bulk to heave around big swords, shields and armour.  In medieval times you didn't become a full knight until you were 21 - and look at the shape of the armour from that time to understand how much upper body strength was required.  I know RPGs do not go down the realism route, which is why I used the word plausibility.  Furthermore, the brain is still growing, synapses are still being formed etc., up until about 18.  This has a direct impact on cognitive functions and emotional balance.  You would be asking your hero to do things that no 13 year old could plausibly (that word again) do. 

They start at the age of 7 to become knights. That's a lot of time to bulk up.

But hey, this is why we make fantasy RPGs if that -isn't plausible-.

Also, since we went there, which armor are we talking about? Since I'm pretty sure that armor shape revolved depending on maneuverability and some such and not exactly about your muscle strength. They went through various revisions before settling with the Milan Armor in Renaissance. And even before, I don't recall seeing armors catering only to a specific body type. Armors were rare since tailoring an armor to the Knight's needs is actually super expensive, so a lot of times their equipment is incomplete (Like people barely have helmets). And sword and shield usage is actually super dependent. I can see a 13 year old being able to do it based on the training we had for our massive Troy play.

And if we're going with poverty stricken countries, I'm sure as hell that Mindanao didn't need an armor to fight back against the Spaniards/American/Japanese and their guns. They utilized the environment instead. So at least there's still that route.

 

[Eschaton]

Again, it's your game.  You're appealing to whatever demographic you want to appeal to. 

Bishounen in their teens to early twenties with spiky hair and impractical armor and phallic swords (and it's always a dayum sword) appeal to a certain demographic. 

Hairy, muscly, testosterone-poisoned, badasses with beards, eye-patches, giant axes, peg-legs, wenches on each arm, monster alcohol tolerance, and deep, gravelly voices that came from gargling Scotch (or sujamma) and the crushed glass bottle they came in and chain-smoking since they were eight seem appeal to a different demographic.

In the end, you make what you want.  But, you put you and yours out for criticism.  We are critiquing you.  Please don't get upset.

 

[Cadh20000]

Well, I thought I was just giving it as an example of a young hero, if I was (intentionally) asking for feeback on it in particular I would have given a lot more detail as to what the world he is in, and and the circumstances he is dealing with, are like.

 

[SOC]

Typically, the age that is most reasonable story-wise for the target audience to relate to for the game you're making

 

[Omnimental]

Assuming from your description that he's not a trained fighter, I'd avoid putting him into any situations where he's involved in combat with older humans.  Especially if they're in the same "style" of combat as him.  Until he's got a bit of experience under his belt (or a partner or two), having him avoid fights is a more believable scenario than him challenging and beating adults who know how to fight.

But hey, it's your world.  As long as the story is internally coherent, go for it.  There's plenty of videogames with child protagonists, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[Julius Lionheart]

Depends on the story and in your character's capabilities.

For example, your hero can be older enough(18 - 25) if he/she is a member of the army, or another organization the exists in your world.

If your hero is an apprentice, 14-17 will do. But make sure that your hero doesn't work alone. Man, even Phineas and Ferb have their friends to back 'em up.

But if your hero has this 'dark past', 25+ could do. Since being the young guy with a dark past is overused(in my opinion) in many stories for years in indie game community...

'tis just my opinion.

 

[Archeia]

There's also the famous Secondary Belief started by J.R.R. Tolkien.  On his essay "On Fairy-Stories" he discusses the fairy-story as a literary form

To quote:

Tolkien says that, in order for the narrative to work, the reader must believe that what he reads is true within the secondary reality of the fictional world. By focusing on creating an internally consistent fictional world, the author makes secondary belief possible. Tolkien argues that suspension of disbelief is only necessary when the work has failed to create secondary belief. From that point the spell is broken, and the reader ceases to be immersed in the story and must make a conscious effort to suspend disbelief or else give up on it entirely.

So if you can make it that in your universe that it is a normal thing, then it would've been a lot more convincing. Nobody is bringing up of point of Fictional World rules and such as much, which is the point of Fantasy RPGs most of the time.

 

[Ksi]

One thing I want to point out is that people complain about 14 and 15 year olds going out on journeys and how unrealistic it is when compared to 'real life.'

My brother left home at 14. Sure, he was a little brat for doing so, but he did it non-the-less. He had a hard time and learned a lot of big lessons about dealing with things that he wasn't then completely prepared for, but he eventually overcame those 'boss battles' with a bit of 'grinding'.

He's not the only teen or youth to leave home at a young age and battle their way into adulthood by themselves, and he probably won't be the last. So saying it's unrealistic for people that young to go out there and do battle in the world is just stupid. Perhaps they aren't slaying demons intent on taking over the world, but they are battling their own demons that are intent on destroying their world. Oh wait, same thing, different face.

I'd also like to point out that a good story teller can justify anything in their own world.

A seven year old with the power to destroy the cosmos? Perhaps an ancient demon is trapped in his body. Perhaps he is the son of a god/dess and has access to other-worldly powers because of it. Perhaps he fell in a magical well when a baby and absorbed it into his soul, slowly using it up as time goes by. Perhaps he has no idea how to access it, even in dire need, but still holds it inside. Perhaps it only comes out while he sleeps.

A twelve year old able to battle on equal footing with soldiers double her age? Maybe she's been trained since childhood, focusing on her strong points and working to perfect her few abilities. Maybe hers is a clan that absorbs the memory and skills of those they defeat. Maybe she was born under a lucky star and bumbles her way through battles with pure blind luck. Maybe she can read minds and knows where the enemy will move next. Maybe she fell in a cauldron filled with a potion of strength when a child and has since retained that strength.

>.>

<.<

I've said it more than once but I'll say it again - it doesn't matter how cliche a story is as long as the details are new. A rebellious teenage princess who runs away from home to aid the main character on his quest? Maybe she's cursed to become a flower when she sneezes and the hero has to keep running around finding her. Even worse if she has allergies. Maybe she is down-to-earth and always carries her own weight, being level-headed and reliable, always noticing the traps and sardonically pointing out the cliches and tropes that pop up from time to time, lampshading them. Perhaps she is really a he, and he wanted to escape an upcoming marriage by taking one last adventure, so pretended to be a girl when meeting the hero for the first time - who thought he was gonna hook up with the pretty princess at the end of the game~

They start at the age of 7 to become knights. That's a lot of time to bulk up.

But hey, this is why we make fantasy RPGs if that -isn't plausible-.

Also, since we went there, which armor are we talking about? Since I'm pretty sure that armor shape revolved depending on maneuverability and some such and not exactly about your muscle strength. They went through various revisions before settling with the Milan Armor in Renaissance. And even before, I don't recall seeing armors catering only to a specific body type. Armors were rare since tailoring an armor to the Knight's needs is actually super expensive, so a lot of times their equipment is incomplete (Like people barely have helmets). And sword and shield usage is actually super dependent. I can see a 13 year old being able to do it based on the training we had for our massive Troy play.

And if we're going with poverty stricken countries, I'm sure as hell that Mindanao didn't need an armor to fight back against the Spaniards/American/Japanese and their guns. They utilized the environment instead. So at least there's still that route.

Yeah, this is why Leather armour is such an early-game staple in most RPGs - it's more accurate for people to have worn cured leathers and hide en masse for armour than actual metal plating and the like. A lot of it was tailor-made for a specific person (usually nobles, important people and higher-up knights), not churned out by the bucket-load for every Tom, Dick and Harry to try on. Hence why in traditional RPGs it's so costly, scarce and end-game gear. There may not be much Traditional RPGs get right, but there was some thought put into item cost, availability and the like~

Also, armour wasn't as rigid as most people think. Truly well-tailored armour like those knights wore, were very easy to move in and non-restrictive because, well, when you're swinging big-ass swords around you don't want to be hampered in any way with your back-swing and movement. Heavy, yes. Hot, yes. Restrictive? Not so much when made well.

 

[Cozzer]

I guess the real problem is not that the main characters go "to the adventure!" when they're 14, but that in most of these stories they suddenly become more competent than every adult, to the point that by the end they're the only ones who can save the city/the kingdom/the world.

 

[gvduck10]

Every pokemon trainer has been around that age.... so I say, go for it

Also, look at Suikoden characters, they run the gamut from VERY OLD to very young, so go with whatever works, so long as it makes sense. (An 11-year old taking on multiple adults, for instance, is NOT reasonable, unless he's got some serious training or some really special powers!)

 

[Berylstone]

"How old is an appropriate age for the hero of a RPG involving fighting other humans as well as monsters?"

I would say the real answer to this is that there is no real answer.

Typically I think players prefer to play as a hero who resembles their own age.  I am sure there are exceptions.  But I would doubt many mature adults would prefer to play as a small child and vice versa.  So I would suggest the safest course is to simply allow the player to choose their own age. 

Of course this may not be possible though if your game follows a strict narrative.  And if that is the case, you are going to have to roll the dice and hope your hero's character appeals to the player.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

As others have said already it really depends on if your story fits the context. That said I don't believe that a thirteen or so year old child should be a great fighter in a story, as others have also said. Even in cultures where you are considered an adult at that time, in no culture are elite soldiers thirteen (peasant choke points and child soldiers w guns do not count as elite) so to have a battle heavy game with a thirteen year old in it is unfeasible, cognitive function/ muscle memory are simply not developed enough at that point for such activities, let alone the differences in size and muscle mass which is passable with proper training,however that training requires the cognitive abilities developed around eighteen. I'd say 17-22 is usually the best age to start in a narrative involving a lot of battling for an inexperienced character that learns along the way and 26+ if you have an experienced protagonist that knows what they are about already. Again, younger protagonists can be done, they just need certain considerations first. In my game the most important character to the narrative is about 10 but she does not participate in battle regularly and when she does she's not a fighter.

 

[Tsukihime]

I'd like to see more people becoming heroes after retiring. Lol.


But these days you can retire in your 30's, so that's a bit different.

 

[Allerka]

I think it depends heavily on the setting. Are their lives short and brutal, sheer necessity forcing children to grow up early, or are things relatively comfortable, long lives allowing them to stretch things out? Additionally, I think it also depends greatly on what exactly the characters will be doing. For example, in Game of Thrones (the books), someone like Jon Snow is only 14, but he joins a psuedo-military unit anyway, although he's put through training for a while, and not expected to do anything approaching real combat for a couple years still. Conversely, in the US, you're not really considered a full-fledged adult until you're 21, but even then your psychological development might not be fully completed (and now we hear stories about psychologists saying you might not be fully mature until you're 30!).

Think about the setting of your story. What kind of lives are people living? Is survival a daily struggle, or an afterthought? What is your character doing? Are they doing reasonable things or something you'd only expect a vastly older person to do? It's perfectly plausible to have a 13-year old character, as long as what they do and how they act is within reason. A 15-year old kid wielding a six-foot sword and slaying dragons while wise-cracking about it is going to seem absurd, but a 14-year old boy joining a militia and being a squire while having doubts about his purpose in life and dealing with a bully will be perfectly acceptable.

 

[CRogers]

When I was playing RPG games when I was 13 I could have easily believed a 13 year old could save the world. Now that I'm almost two decades older, it seems strange to even consider. Not that I am necessarily right now, just clarifying perspective.

I don't think 11-13 is too young by any means, but it certainly makes a lot of storylines harder to believe. From what you have written for your story, the age range could work, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be some blowback. Even if you are setting it in a world where the age range makes sense, under conditions that make sense, you still might have people who just go '13? Nope, can't get into it'.

One thing I will add that, in general, I have a big problem with characters who are aged really young but have no reason to be so. This is especially easy to notice in some animes and JRPG. They'll say a character is 14, but he'll have the mannerisms/body of someone much older.