How powerful should jrpgs let the hero party become?

[jonthefox]

At a certain point in the game, presumably right before the player has the option of entering the "final dungeon", the player can now do a bunch of side quests, find the best items, grind levels, etc. - essentially, maximize their power.

The question becomes - how powerful do you like the hero party to be able to become? Do you like the possibility for the hero party to become absurdly powerful, one-shotting all but perhaps the rare superboss? Or do you think the game is better served when yes, the party can grow in power, but as long as you're playing the game, the enemies will always scale to a level that the party must take seriously?

AND, does your point of view change when you're the develop vs. when you're the player? Do you enjoy becoming absurdly powerful as a player, and then offer the same option when designing your games, or do you take more pleasure in designing a game where the player will always feel challenged? Or vice versa, do you enjoy always being challenged, but want to give your players the option to feel uber powerful, if they so please?

Interested in your thoughts on this topic!

 

[bgillisp]

As powerful as needed for it to feel fun. I've played some games that horded everything worse than the gold in Fort Knox as it felt like they were too afraid you'd break the balance at all so they handed out rewards like a miser.

 

[Featherbrain]

Depends on the overall "scale" and tone of the game. Is this an epic story where the heroes are fighting a god-like, world-threatening boss? Set max player abilities accordingly; if they're fighting a god, they ought to be able to become god-like themselves. If it's a more low-scale, realistic, or gritty story, it might be better if the characters can't become too overpowered compared to their overall surroundings.

 

[Mythmaker19]

I remember playing games like FFVII where I got all the best materia in the game and beat Sephiroth in a matter of a few turns. While it was satisfying to feel that powerful, I wouldn't want to do it again because it also took a good chunk of the fun out of it. I believe that the characters should be able to become very strong, but I also believe that giving the player too much power actually takes away from the overall experience.

 

[Dororo]

We speak of relative power, so.

In DQIII, that to me represent the most balanced JRPG ever, the very large number of entries in the bestiary make you feel challenged even for the post-post-post-game quests.
Some of those quests require for you to fight the uberboss again under round limits, so you should become more powerfull than you are again and again.
Also, introducing collectables, even wasting monsters isn't irrelevant, you must chacth all such gold medals and the night/day cycle introduce variety. Is quite an "endless game".

The game that did the worst service in that field was Final Fantasy Tactics. That got no escalation at all and the moment you're aware of the best build you simply grind. Most map battles will become easy just after one quarter of the game. That's an issue of collecting JP and resources that doesn't escalate with the game, making early grinding incredibly benefictual.
You feel "overpowered" too early.

 

[Ahuramazda]

I personally love big numbers and allow my player to farm/grind as much as they want, but my game also has a difficulty slider in it that if the game doesn't feel hard enough a player can make it more difficult...

At max difficulty the STARTING enemies can still possibly kill a player who would have 10000 HP and 1000 of every stat because of the way I have my formula's set up and how difficulty scaling works.

I was trying to go for a game that was balanced but allowed a player to determine how they wanted to play. If they don't want to grind and become god-like they can play the game as normal and should never need to use the difficulty option. If a player wants to be a speed runner for the game, they can make it easier. If they want a challenge (and it IS challenging) jack the difficulty up to max and prepare for some rage inducing battles.

In the long run I think it is how you want your players to feel when playing the game. If you want to keep numbers smaller and very restricted then go for it, but just remember that no matter how you design the game someone is always going to be turned off by it. (Numbers are too small, numbers are too big, ect.)

Balance it the way you feel is right for your design, people will like it or not. In the end all that matters is if you felt you did your best on design and balance and that you (as the creator) are happy with the project.

 

[KakonComp]

You could give the player the option of having the final boss grow in power after certain thresholds are met, but unless players knew ahead of time, or could set whether or not the boss got more powerful as the player did, you'd probably have a lot of peeved players.

I don't normally care, or make the final stuff difficult in more ways than just pure damage, something that would still possibly get the best of players, maybe status effects, or using their own overpoweredness against them via counters and the like.

I do like the possibility of my characters being overpowered, though it usually makes little sense from a story perspective to be able to cheese the remaining enemies. Sometimes the story lends credence to being overpowered, however.

 

[zzmmorgan]

If you have the enemies level along with the player then things will sort of balance out even if the player gets seriously powerful gear. Judicious use of immortal flags can also help make sure the player can't kill the big bosses in the first round
It's a challenge to try to make it so a casual player has the ability to kill the endgame boss yet keep that same fight from being boring and over with far too quickly for a more hard core player. That's where creativity comes in as you come up with ways to match the player against the bosses appropriately. Some extra logic to look for gear that a casual player would be unlikely to have is one way to even things out a bit so the tougher gear nets a tougher boss....

 

[CraneSoft]

I'd say as powerful as the game allows, but at the same time don't make the hero party invincible, as most of the fun starts to get thrown out the window when the player realizes the enemy are simply incapable of killing them. There are plenty of games where you can grind yourself be a walking death machine but can still die from a stray bullet or playing recklessly, which is how they can still be fun no matter how overpowered a player becomes.

 

[Wavelength]

I don't necessarily have a lot to say here, but I really enjoy it when I can develop my party to absurdly, almost infinitely, powerful levels in the post-game. It gives me a justification to hang around and keep playing an RPG that I enjoy after I've played through the entire story (because I rarely like to start a second playthrough of an RPG, even ones with a NG+ mode).