Ksi

~RTP Princess~
Restaff
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
2,089
Reaction score
1,684
First Language
English
At a glance, I wouldn't buy the game. I do like to buy RPG Maker games to help out fellow devs, and being a developer I know effort and skill when I see it. The images shown just don't make me want to play the game and make me think that there wasn't as much effort put into it as, say, Ara Fell, Skyborn, Pale Echoes, Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass, Artifact Adventure and other RPGs out there that you're competing with.

Part of that is the logo, sure - it looks messy and unconnected and just not pleasant to look at - but it's mainly the screens you've picked to represent your game. They just don't show anything interesting that I can't see by just looking at any other game that exists out there. Your most eye-catching image is the palace because it's kinda pretty and the horribly mapped square maze thing (and that jumps out for the wrong reasons).

There are issues with the screenshots you've chosen to use for your game. There is a lot of overbearing light effects/tints that make some hard to see, but the fact you're showing mainly monster battles instead of maps means it's hard to judge based on those which might have been why you went with that instead of showing the world off.

The faces aren't helping sell the illusion of consistency or quality, either. The dwarf is more simplistic in style than the cat, so they look weird in the same screenshot. Then you have the face on the skyship and comparing that to the edited Dark One face... they don't match at all and it kinda leaps out at you. Maybe you should seek someone to make custom faces for your people all in the same style (since you've made money off your other projects, it shouldn't take much to put a little back into the investment that is creating a commercial game).

I think you should reconsider what images you keep up on the page. The palace should stay, as should one or two of the battle images without the faces. Get some of the prettier maps up there - and no, obscuring light effects don't equate to pretty unless you know how to use them properly. By that I mean, used to enhance a screenshot, not cover it up. Lighting should be subtle and help enhance what is already there.

Honestly, though, when I can go download free games with much better mapping and that sell themselves better, why would I buy your game? I wouldn't. That's because you're not showing possible customers things that will grab their interest and show your game as being something different to the bland, generic fare that already exists for RPG Maker.
 
Last edited:

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
@Labyrinthine : I'd suggest hiring someone then. I got someone to do a basic title logo for $20 for my game.

As it is, I'd say I have two concerns about the game from the initial glance at the store page on Steam.

1) The logo is a slight issue, yes. You say it has a purpose, but is the player who has not bought the game going to know that? Odds are that is a big no. So go for something that looks good and appeals to the eye of someone who has not played the game, not something with deep art significance that might make sense after 40 hours of playing.

2) The screenshots bothered me a little. The facesets looked to similar to the character generator, which is usually associated with a bad game. Now I don't think it was the generator but it had a generator like style which still sends out a slightly negative vibe to people.

Now the thing to keep in mind is this: You get one shot to make an impression with a buyer. So yes, that means your store page needs to be as close to perfect as you can make it. You need your logo to be as good as it can be. The screenshots need to be the best you got to show, and that includes your best graphics. Sure, we aren't going to wow those who want graphics which match FF, but we do need to put our best foot forward with the store page, and the reason is, if buyers only see average or worse there, they will assume that was the best you had and the game will be worse than that, and will usually not buy, especially not in this market when there are 7000+ games released every year.

As for @bgillisp: The faces look a bit like the generator stuff, but I actually drew them all from the scratch. I didn't want to use one of those artists whose works you've seen in a hundred other RPG Maker games. I think you know the style. There are no self-similar parts in any of the faces I made. If you check out this section of my site http://labyronia.wixsite.com/labyroniaelements/gallery and see the very final image; do the dwarf and cat really look like they were made with the generator? I think it's mainly just because the faces are about the same size (in the square) as usual. Also, there are barely any stock graphics in the game which wouldn't have been edited in one way or the other.

I can see your point though, and I appreciate everyone's feedback. I think I just feel I'm kind of "done" with this game. As for the logo, the people who owns it knows the logo as it is anyway, now, so changing it suddenly might be a bit confusing.

About the trailer and images, I was probably thinking too much on spoiling things, therefore leaving the best stuff out of it. Mistake on my half, likely.

Also, don't get me wrong people, I've been on this business quite long now already and I can take negative criticism and learn from it. It's just that I think the logo is "good enough" for its purpose.

Unfortunately I have to rant a bit still, because of how senseless the last post after yours is...

As for @Ksi: Your post actually made me angry because of how disrespectful it was. I can assure you, this is one of the biggest RPG Maker games ever and it's not a joke. Comparing this (approx.)80-hour adventure with 65 original songs (+ all custom sound effects) and a bunch of original graphics to some 10- 15 hour RPG:s , and saying it was "less" effort is false and there's no way around it. I spent 3 years doing this game, at least 10 hours a day. The length is not artificial. Thousands of dollars went to it. How the hell is that less effort than the games you mentioned? Some of those games use RTP enemy graphics straight from the engine, unedited. All of my battlers are edited to at least some extent.

Heed this- I'm sure the games you meant are great too. Ara Fell especially looks gorgeous. But you have no base to say any one of them would be better than this. Perhaps some of them are better, some of them might be on par, and some of them might be worse. I don't know since I haven't played them so I'm not making baseless assumptions. I'm just quite sure none of them had more effort than this one. The only way to decide in general, about the quality of the games, is take an unbiased player (which obviously means no one at this thread at this point) and make 'em play through all these games. Then you'll get your answer, but it might not be what you expect, because of the following.

On the Aldorlea website, two of the reviewers said Labyronia Elements is on the very top with a number of the best games released on the site. I got the feeling they've played a loo-ot of RPG Maker games. Some of the games you mentioned can be bought from there. But I suppose They are talking out of their (well, you know), since they actually played the game through unlike you?

The only thing you were right about was the fact that I should've chosen my screenshots better. Even though, in general this game is a lot more about varying game play than pretty graphics. However as it seems, mapping is your only point of deciding the quality of the game. Writing, music, story, original gameplay etc. apparently has got nothing to do with it.

At any rate, I feel we're gotten out of subject. This thread was about advise on advertising, and I think I've heard enough now from everyone. Thank you for feedback, and no hard feelings for anyone, even though I might be a bit hot-headed at times. So, sorry if I offended any of you.
 
Last edited:

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,967
Reaction score
14,818
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@Labyrinthine : You're probably right on the logo at this point. Still something to think for the next game. And agreed, I didn't think they were generator, they just gave me a generator vibe somehow. It's tough to explain.

Still maybe you can at least update the screenshots to see if it helps with different ones? I think maybe one semi-spoiler is ok in a trailer, and most other things we think are spoilers aren't if they are out of context. Or maybe a few screenshots of the worlds I've heard you mention (not all of them, but a couple). Just a thought.
 

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
@Studio Blue
That sounds like a really nice thing, Studio Blue! :) I can send you some free keys in private conversation if you wish.
 

tati light

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
160
Reaction score
110
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Just a heads up, but Ksi and many others here are completely right. They are spot on in the problems of this game.
Even if this game is huge with 80 hours of gameplay and fantastic music, the presentation is extremely poorly done. The store page just screams at me “this is just another poor rpg maker game, move along”.

You can hate me if you wish, but if you truly care about your game, you should remake all store page, presentation including screenshots etc from scratch. If you are “done” with this game and don’t care about it anymore, just use this as experience for the next game.

People here are not offending you, they are being totally honest and wasting their time providing valuable constructive feedback (even if you think it’s rude).
 

Maple

Adventure hard!
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
83
Reaction score
78
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
This is why it's a great idea to inflate your total price. The actual price of your game (whatever you're satisfied with), should be whenever the game is supposed to be like 20% off. For example, you want players to pay $10 for the game, so you make it something like $12, so that when the 20% sale runs, people are still paying $10. This way players think they're getting a deal, and you're not operating on a loss.
This.
 

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
@Celianna said
"This is why it's a great idea to inflate your total price. The actual price of your game (whatever you're satisfied with), should be whenever the game is supposed to be like 20% off. For example, you want players to pay $10 for the game, so you make it something like $12, so that when the 20% sale runs, people are still paying $10. This way players think they're getting a deal, and you're not operating on a loss."

Now you're the one talking most sense here so far (sorry for the double post with the dot. Can't erase it.)
 
Last edited:

Dankovsky

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
200
Reaction score
152
First Language
RU
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Comparing this (approx.)80-hour adventure with 65 original songs (+ all custom sound effects) and a bunch of original graphics to some 10- 15 hour RPG:s , and saying it was "less" effort is false and there's no way around it. I spent 3 years doing this game, at least 10 hours a day. The length is not artificial. Thousands of dollars went to it. How the hell is that less effort than the games you mentioned? Some of those games use RTP enemy graphics straight from the engine, unedited. All of my battlers are edited to at least some extent.
I actually really feel you, especially for the quoted part... None of us want to be in this position and I dread it all the time - creating the big perfect game, spending several years on it and large part of your personal funds - only for nobody to play it.

The sad truth is, the players never care about 80 hrs of content, or how many years you spent making the game, or how much did you pay for the soundtrack. What they usually care about is how it looks like and how it feels like to play.

Games are not judged by effort put into them. They are judged by their look and gameplay.

So if it looks like and feels like "a standard RPG Maker game"... you should know the consumers will instantly think it's "just another of those RPG Maker worthless games" no matter how hard you actually worked on it, and they'll never even reach hour 2 of the game (of your 80 hours total!).

By the way, if it's any consolation, I actually own all of your games except one :) didn't have time to play them for long, though.

This is why it's a great idea to inflate your total price. The actual price of your game (whatever you're satisfied with), should be whenever the game is supposed to be like 20% off. For example, you want players to pay $10 for the game, so you make it something like $12, so that when the 20% sale runs, people are still paying $10. This way players think they're getting a deal, and you're not operating on a loss.
While it's not a bad idea overall, please also consider:
1) It's a very bad idea to change game price after release, especially if you increase it
2) Steam users are used to simple price brackets like 5, 10 and 20 USD. So putting some other number like 12 USD may alienate or confuse some of them (I know it sounds silly but it's actually a real subconscious thing).
 
Last edited:

Tuomo L

Oldbie
Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
2,453
Reaction score
1,375
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Okay, without even looking at your game you need to get a real website and toss Wix to trashbin. You won't have any investors or big name companies take you seriously with .wix.com at the end of your game's name in the url. Here's alternatives, the two are if you have any eye for design yourself. If not, there's lots of good online courses, many free that'll help you become better graphic designer.

Wordpress

Make a wordpress blog, it's simple and you can later puchase things to it to make you have a proper name and everything when you have the funds to do so.

Pros:

Simple to setup
You can grow it as needed

Cons:
Many of the things you want to implement will increase the overall expenses of the Wordpress site, it can get quite pricey at the end.

Squarespace

Make a Squarespace website. You can create good websites within hours.

Pros:

Extremely fast
Tons of templates for free

Cons:
Creates very "samey" sites unless you tinker around a lot
Very few SEO options


However if you either have no eye for graphic design or you want the absolute best experience

Hire website designer

Due to the rise of many of these websites, website designers nowadays work for far less than you'd think.

Pros:

Makes unique tailored experience just for you by people who know what they're doing

Cons:

It may still get a bit pricey compared to many other alternatives.
 

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
Okay, without even looking at your game you need to get a real website and toss Wix to trashbin. You won't have any investors or big name companies take you seriously with .wix.com at the end of your game's name in the url. Here's alternatives, the two are if you have any eye for design yourself. If not, there's lots of good online courses, many free that'll help you become better graphic designer.

Wordpress

Make a wordpress blog, it's simple and you can later puchase things to it to make you have a proper name and everything when you have the funds to do so.

Pros:

Simple to setup
You can grow it as needed

Cons:
Many of the things you want to implement will increase the overall expenses of the Wordpress site, it can get quite pricey at the end.

Squarespace

Make a Squarespace website. You can create good websites within hours.

Pros:

Extremely fast
Tons of templates for free

Cons:
Creates very "samey" sites unless you tinker around a lot
Very few SEO options


However if you either have no eye for graphic design or you want the absolute best experience

Hire website designer

Due to the rise of many of these websites, website designers nowadays work for far less than you'd think.

Pros:

Makes unique tailored experience just for you by people who know what they're doing

Cons:

It may still get a bit pricey compared to many other alternatives.
Unfortunately I'm very poor and in high debts. At this moment, I haven't got money to hire too much of anything. Thanks you for your advice anyway, and I'll think about the free choices.
 

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
I actually really feel you, especially for the quoted part... None of us want to be in this position and I dread it all the time - creating the big perfect game, spending several years on it and large part of your personal funds - only for nobody to play it.

The sad truth is, the players never care about 80 hrs of content, or how many years you spent making the game, or how much did you pay for the soundtrack. What they usually care about is how it looks like and how it feels like to play.

Games are not judged by effort put into them. They are judged by their look and gameplay.

So if it looks like and feels like "a standard RPG Maker game"... you should know the consumers will instantly think it's "just another of those RPG Maker worthless games" no matter how hard you actually worked on it, and they'll never even reach hour 2 of the game (of your 80 hours total!).

By the way, if it's any consolation, I actually own all of your games except one :) didn't have time to play them for long, though.


While it's not a bad idea overall, please also consider:
1) It's a very bad idea to change game price after release, especially if you increase it
2) Steam users are used to simple price brackets like 5, 10 and 20 USD. So putting some other number like 12 USD may alienate or confuse some of them (I know it sounds silly but it's actually a real subconscious thing).
Oh, nice to know. To be honest, I really don't recommend any other of my games but the remake version of the first Labyronia called "The World of Labyrinths: Labyronia" and "Labyronia Elements" which is the best game of the series. The "Labyronia RPG" maker games were the lower quality games despite the higher sales. I'm not happy at them, because of my inexperience of game making at the time. It took me three games to get a hang of proper writing, storytelling and various other stuff. That's why I call these modest games the "RPG Lite" series today. Trying to distance myself from them, to be honest.

As for the and gameplay, Labyronia Elements looks quite standard from the pictures (despite the all around editing work), but the progression is pretty unique and I'm also very happy with the gameplay in general. It also starts with a bang (instead of the good old "hero waking up from his home") to hook the player as fast as possible and could be addictive to certain kind of people because of how the skills/ elements are collected and how much there is to it.

Also, thank you for your understanding!
 
Last edited:

slimmmeiske2

Little Red Riding Hood
Global Mod
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
9,112
Reaction score
5,964
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMXP

Labyrinthine, please avoid double posting, as it is against the forum rules. You can use the "Edit" function on your posts to add additional information you've forgotten or respond to multiple people. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.


If you want to quote multiple posts, please use the multiquote button/+quote all the posts you want to reply to. Alternatively, you can @ them, like this @Labyrinthine .
 

Isabella Ava

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
635
Reaction score
756
First Language
English
Hey i actually played this The World of Labyrinths: Labyronia game a little, there are several things can be fixed. However this game actually not so bad at all, definitely quite of effort poured into it.
It's a like-able game
 

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
Hey i actually played this The World of Labyrinths: Labyronia game a little, there are several things can be fixed. However this game actually not so bad at all, definitely quite of effort poured into it.
It's a like-able game
Yah, it's the first part of the series, so it's quite a basic adventure. I'm pretty happy about it how it works out despite being a very basic RPG Maker adventure. Thank you for playing the game and hope you enjoy it : -:)
Just out of curiosity, which things would you like to see fixed? I Just wanna know how I can improve in the future if I happen to repeat some of those things.
 

atoms

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
546
Reaction score
338
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Well if your planning on using that title screen from the second page as part of your advertising I recommend changing it as I don't find it appealing even in the slightest right now, and it seems I'm not the only one.

I agree you can't judge the game by the title screen and I'm not suggesting anything negative about the game, in fact I researched further and the game itself looks more interesting to me after finding the Steam page for it, but that title screen does put me off and probably does effect the game negatively for you.

If I understood right, part of your game is split into playing as different characters in different locations and then at the end of it they come together. That does sounds interesting to me, and it sounds a likeable concept to me.

One suggestion I do have is perhaps for the title screen you could split it into showing an image representing the different worlds? Or if not, rather something with a background to it that fits the plot of the game?

I also don't have much knowledge on advertising either games in general nor RPG Maker ones. I more or less was curious to know what people were saying in here related to it, but I felt I can say this much from my first impressions of your game.
 

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
Well if your planning on using that title screen from the second page as part of your advertising I recommend changing it as I don't find it appealing even in the slightest right now, and it seems I'm not the only one.

I agree you can't judge the game by the title screen and I'm not suggesting anything negative about the game, in fact I researched further and the game itself looks more interesting to me after finding the Steam page for it, but that title screen does put me off and probably does effect the game negatively for you.

If I understood right, part of your game is split into playing as different characters in different locations and then at the end of it they come together. That does sounds interesting to me, and it sounds a likeable concept to me.

One suggestion I do have is perhaps for the title screen you could split it into showing an image representing the different worlds? Or if not, rather something with a background to it that fits the plot of the game?

I also don't have much knowledge on advertising either games in general nor RPG Maker ones. I more or less was curious to know what people were saying in here related to it, but I felt I can say this much from my first impressions of your game.
I actually had the idea of combining the world images on the title screen, but it would've have to be pretty and I couldn't afford to buy a correct kind of artist to do that because it's not cheap and I had other game expenses. At any rate, I'm pretty satisfied on the current logo, even though it seems many here disagree with me.
I also thought to use this as the title screen at first, but what do people think? Would it have been any better than the current one? The Tome of the Elements text would've just read Labyronia Elements. Now, I just use this as a book cover for a readable item in the game. In my personal opinion, I like the current logo more though.
gRPrzb6.png
 
Last edited:

atoms

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
546
Reaction score
338
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV

Yeah of course and that is a good point that you'd want it to be pretty, I think that would work best for you. I don't know if anyone in this forum might do a title screen for free though? I know about in 2008 there was an RPG Maker community where people could request custom title screens and a lot of nice ones were made but I don't think I've seen that for a long time now....

Well, I might be wrong and it's possible popular option where you advertise your game actually do like the title screen, but I have my doubts that is the case. My main issue with it is all the shapes look out of place to me with a first impression. I really prefer the default title screens in MV to it. Though, I think even with a black screen and just the logo, with a different font for Labyronia, I'd already like it better.

Edit: What about this image for 5 planets on your website?

Here
http://labyronia.wixsite.com/labyroniaelements

I already think something like that may look better.

That's only my views and opinions though. Best of luck with your games.
 
Last edited:

Labyrinthine

Artist/ Developer
Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
455
Reaction score
403
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
@atoms
Thanks for the encouragement :)
I was thinking about using the planet screen as the title background at first, but then it would've looked way too full. There's already a lot of stuff on it with the symbols and different font types, despite being quite plain in the end.
 

Latest Threads

Latest Posts

Latest Profile Posts

It is december, my dudes

badge_xmas.png
I love it when a plan comes together, and especially when Ruby decides to work with me when I decide to code. :kaopride:
Got sick and had to take a few days off work in order to get tested and make sure it wasn't the big one. Felt a lot better today and thought to myself, "Hey now, I can't get tested until tomorrow anyway, I can get so much character art done today!"
....I watched Youtube and browsed this site for hours instead.
>.>
But at least I'm doing the art now! Yaaaaay.......
1638314262144.png
Didn't wanna spam the feed by posting Denzel's spritelayer separae, but I'm real happy with how this concept is coming along so wanted to share it, innit :D
EVXA wrote on Avery's profile.
Not sure how often you take time to play the games sent to you, but if you could give my game a shout & review on steam maybe that would be amazing, only if you like the game of course, I'd love to know which games have been your favorites over the years too.

Forum statistics

Threads
117,092
Messages
1,104,508
Members
153,094
Latest member
thomas8av
Top