How to you cover up the plot holds on your games?

Kupotepo

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The writing on the papers and the computer is fine. We can look back and laugh at what we have done.

In the execution of the games, what is the main focus of this thread?

1. If the personality of a character suddenly changes, what do you do? Do you explain it to the players? Do you stretch the gameplay in order to slow down the personality change?

2. If you find that the resolution of your story in the game's presentation does not clear enough to the players, what do you do to fix the problem? Or you prefer to keep players guessing?

3. What if you discovered Illogical events? Do you think you have an explaining session for players? But, that is surely boring. (Example: An all-powerful villain is easily defeated.) I think that can be fixed by balancing stats or spacing of villain plots. What do you think?

4. What if you forget that you give information to the characters, but your cutscenes execution like nothing happens and the characters act like ignorant? Do you do to fix that rarely bad execution? (Example: A character seemingly forgets a vital piece of information they knew earlier in the story.)

5. What if you find the contradictions after you post on the website? How do you fix this? (Example: A character's personality changes greatly between two scenes with no explanation.)

6. What if you later discover a narrative plot hole? (Example: in the early phase of your game, you said the player that the deaths came back. In the later cutscene, the players saw the zombies.)
:kaojoy:
Thank you for providing me with the cautionary tales. Thank you and I hope you have a good weekend.
 
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PixeLockeT

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That's why you plan it first so these things do not happen or at least do not happen in a jarring manner. I tend to write my ending first (so that it is clearly defined in the way I want), then beginning, then lay out major plot points, and lastly fill in between. In doing this where you can reference each major plot point as well as the destinations of the game, you'll avoid these problems altogether, or soften the chance of them happening to a degree - as long as you follow it along with your plan in mind aka always always look at your outline references (making sure you built up a sound structure to begin with).
 

Oddball

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On point 1. Charecter development is a good thing. Sure you can make a story were a charecter doesn't change, but if one does in my stories. I just go "eh." and run with it

On point 2. If that happens, I'd just tweak the end so that the unsatisfactory resolution turns in to a way players can theory craft. Use the mystery to your advantage
On point 3. I'd just turn those into a mystery
 

Kupotepo

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@PixeLockeT, yes if you keep making mistake despite planing, that is why let'play YouTubers spot mistake errors. It doesn't have to be a major problem.

It is a rare incident because it is subjective. I am impulsive despite the outline. That is a rare event for you, but not for me. Sorry for asking these unimportant and personal questions.:kaohi:

@PixeLockeT, thank you for trying to help me.
@Oddball, thank you for your advice.

I tend to write my ending first (so that it is clearly defined in the way I want), then beginning, then lay out major plot points, and lastly fill in between.
I agree with you on the specific targets of beginning and end plots. I understand now, it is like playing
traditional snakes and ladders board game. Since I understand what you mean now. Do you expand the plots between the beginning plot and the ending plot when you find inconsistency there?
 
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Oddball

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I say, try to find a balance between what i said and what @PixeLockeT said. That way, you'll have a goal and a outline, but things and charecters develop naturally. There are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches. Try to find a good balance. Here is a video that talks about these two styles (although a bit sarcasticly alot of the times)

 

Kupotepo

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Sure you can make a story were a charecter doesn't change, but if one does in my stories. I just go "eh." and run with it
You meant like the God of War series. The first series is a greek tragedy. The second series is a protagonist just kill spree mode. The third is a parody. Am I exaggerating thing?
I agree the character is maturing which is a good sign. That is your game is great.
I refer to from innocent children and the next cutscene that character becomes the assassin. Am I exaggerating thing?:kaopride:

I am still processing sorry for the slow response.

I'd just tweak the end so that the unsatisfactory resolution turns in to a way players can theory craft. Use the mystery to your advantage
Thank you for your helpful tip. More is less because it can be used as an element of surprise against the player's reaction.

On point 3. I'd just turn those into a mystery
I do not have to explain it to the player?
 
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Oddball

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I do not have to explain it to the player?
Not nessicarily. If it doesn't make sense and you want to turn it into a mystery, sprinkle clues through out the story
 

HumanNinjaToo

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I think a lot of what you mentioned in OP depends greatly on the ability of the dev/writer. I'm not sure that someone making those particular mistakes would even notice they've made the mistakes to begin with, because it seems those are mostly mistakes made due to poor writing ability. It would probably be a situation where someone else points those mistakes out to the person doing the writing or story creation.

1. Character development can happen slow, or it can happen fast. I don't think a character changing their personality in some ways is a bad thing, as long as the story context is there to support the change. Traumatic events happen that could shift a person's point-of-view, so it's not unreasonable that this type of character development would happen in a game. However, if a character begins behaving completely different, and there is no logical reason as to why, then I'd say that is a problem. I would think the writer needs to consider going back over the entire character development up to that point in order to see why they chose to implement that personality change to begin with. IMO, that issue should be addressed before the point of change, not explained away after the fact.

2. I'm a fan of endings that leave some bits up to audience interpretation. Some parts are okay to be resolved, some parts are okay to leave the audience guessing. For instance, take a look at the ending of Castaway. Most of the conflict is resolved, but they leave the characters future open for some amount of interpretation based on the last few minutes of the movie.

3. I think this one depends on your idea of what an illogical event is. In your example of a super villain being easily defeated, I think you need to look at the setup. If you've set up this villain as being a badass, and then he is taken out very easily, then that's an execution flaw right? Either the dev overhyped the character in the story, or the dev improperly executed the battle for the super villain. In this situation, I don't think it can be explained away, I think the dev needs to go back and fix the mistake.

4. For your example given, this is a failure on the part of the dev. So yeah, the dev needs to go back and fix the issue. Letting something like that slide is just lazy game making IMO.

5. This is why testplaying the crap out of a game is important. You can always update your game, so probably not a huge problem in that regard. However, you could potentially damage your reputation as a game dev if you're rushing out games without properly testing them. Having some minor issues here and there is probably not a huge deal, but needing to revamp your games story because of plotholes looks like the dev is lazy and doesn't care about their story. But that's just my opinion.

6. You have to go back and fix it. Simple as that.
 

Kupotepo

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@HumanNinjaToo, thank you for always answering my questions.

However, if a character begins behaving completely different, and there is no logical reason as to why, then I'd say that is a problem.
You brought up an interest question. Many people get this. Do you think the writer has to emotional calmness to write? So your emotion is not split over to your character. Is that true?

I'm a fan of endings that leave some bits up to audience interpretation.
Thank you understand now. Like the interpreted dance of victory aftermath.

Letting something like that slide is just lazy game making IMO.
lol, in the name of lazy game making.

However, you could potentially damage your reputation as a game dev if you're rushing out games without properly testing them.
People outside here can be piranha fishes and will eat you up. lol, I have to be careful.

the dev is lazy and doesn't care about their story.
Thank you for putting good words for me. Now, I go to the game section and write that about them. I am just kidding, but I think I will get under people's skin.
 
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HumanNinjaToo

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You brought up an interest question. Many people get this. Do you think the writer has to emotional calmness to write? So your emotion is not split over to your character. Is that true?
I think in a lot of ways, writing can be an emotional outlet, just like music or painting. So while I believe a lot of people are going to have different writing styles, and some may prefer to have an emotional calmness, I don't believe this is necessary to be a good writer. I think some artists/writers are great because they do allow their emotions to influence their works.
 

Kupotepo

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@HumanNinjaToo, I means when I feel irritate, should I write about the quiet characters? Or you think it doesn't matter. Just remember the characters personalities and free writing?

Thanks for keeping answer my concerns.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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I don't know bud, that's up to you. Do you feel you write well when irritated?
 

AfroKat

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IMO unless it's used for therapy i wouldn't be angry and writing a generally calm person. I'd remember the feelings I have no and make sure to include them to people who do get angry or have an aggressive personality.
 

woootbm

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1. If the personality of a character suddenly changes, what do you do? Do you explain it to the players? Do you stretch the gameplay in order to slow down the personality change?
I think there's 3 things I consider when doing this:
A. Does the character have enough distinguishing traits that the turn would be clear? Has the player spent enough time with this character to learn about them?
B. Is the change motivated? Has there been build up that would have foreshadowed this?
C. Have other characters comment on it. Even if A and B are in place, it might not hurt to have another character say something like "That's not like him to do that..." This runs the risk of making things too obvious, but I don't think you're going for some extremely subtle narrative, no?

2. If you find that the resolution of your story in the game's presentation does not clear enough to the players, what do you do to fix the problem? Or you prefer to keep players guessing?
Some people might actually consider this a good thing. To get people talking and draw their own conclusion. I think the important thing is that plot points are motivated, and arcs feel like they have been fully concluded, even if done so ambiguously.

3. What if you discovered Illogical events? Do you think you have an explaining session for players? But, that is surely boring. (Example: An all-powerful villain is easily defeated.) I think that can be fixed by balancing stats or spacing of villain plots. What do you think?
Unless this is a point of comedy, I would find it best to fix the logic in another draft. And it's better to have actions make sense on their own than to suddenly halt the story and bombard the player with explanations.

4. What if you forget that you give information to the characters, but your cutscenes execution like nothing happens and the characters act like ignorant? Do you do to fix that rarely bad execution? (Example: A character seemingly forgets a vital piece of information they knew earlier in the story.)
Personally I think it's best to have characters act as intelligently as possible for them. When characters have to forget things or act stupidly to progress the plot, this is frustrating for the audience (look up "Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet". People still make memes about how crappy that was)

5. What if you find the contradictions after you post on the website? How do you fix this? (Example: A character's personality changes greatly between two scenes with no explanation.)
Website? Seems related to first question. I wouldn't post something to the public unless it's ready. Get a smaller audience to look at your stuff and give feedback first, then post the fixed version. If it's too late for that... well, bite the bullet and update the build I guess.

6. What if you later discover a narrative plot hole? (Example: in the early phase of your game, you said the player that the deaths came back. In the later cutscene, the players saw the zombies.)
Similar answer to 5: fix it.

I think the takeaway here is having more proofreading. If the people who "QA" the game aren't bringing these things up, you might need new QA because apparently they are either not thorough enough or are trying to spare your feelings. Remember, the public is savage. It's much better to get ripped apart early on than have it hit live and tank.
 

Kupotepo

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@woootbm, thank you for bringing your experience here and sharing with me.
 

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