How would you make a ranged tank function?

Oddball

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So i thought the idea of a ranged tank would be a cool concept, but how would YOU make it function without being broken?

I would imagine a semi-low damage output with slowing and redirection could be one way to make it work. Or make most of it's skills support allies and all its attacks are ranged, but semi-low damage. Or maybe lots of crowd control effects? or a combination of these elements?

Again, I want to hear the communities opinion on this
 

TheoAllen

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What defines as "ranged"?
Are you using a grid position or row formation?
Or ranged is simply an "element"?
 

palatkorn

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Use the same method as the rock push game.
1. Events . made as a bullet hitting
2. Command button to move event
3. Investigate a collision event.
 

duty

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Making the assumption that yours is a game with turn-based combat. In that sense, you're looking at a range weapon themed "tank".

It could be an archer who debilitates enemies with trick shot themed skills, such as shooting the enemy's weapon or pinning them with an arrow. Perhaps a rain of suppressive fire keeps one ore more enemies from attacking.

Or it could be a caster with a lot of crowd control abilities.
 

lianderson

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Armored giant cannon that takes time to start up and reload! It naturally protects other peoples due to its ridiculous size which allows everyone to play Yugioh during the battle. This is a most important role! It is how dark magicians are made.

I hope this helped answer your question human! Good day, and good murda.
 

Saireau

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In an action game, it could be an archer 'kiting' the enemies (being chased by them, spamming AoEs that can be used while running).

In a turn-based game, however, this idea is hard to convey. The concept itself is a bit of a problem: Usually, most enemy attacks are melee attacks, so you would end up with an archer surrounded by enemies, where a ranged weapon doesn't make much sense. But maybe the character could be flying? An angel or a drone? Instead of DEF being the main stat, it could be EVA.
 

kirbwarrior

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Well, 'ranged' implies a system where there is some sort of battlefield control and you either want to be far from the enemy or against being near them. 'Tank' implies being able to take hits no issue.

I don't see anything particularly noteworthy of this. Plenty of TRPGs already do this. If it's a matter of something like rows, then you often already are a tank; The row system in a lot of games decreases damage taken and in a few prevents you from being targeted in the first place. Barret in FF7 is a great example of this since most of his weapons have Long Range built in meaning he effectively takes half physical damage.

However, 'ranged' might be something more unique. Maybe you have a weapon or style that makes you good against a particular group of enemies that can be classified as 'flying'. That just sounds like a gimmick the tank can rely on, no different than (say) a cleric/paladin that is especially good against the undead.

Off the top of my head, I like the idea of combining the traits into one; A character focused on draining spells. The basic attack would be a single target drain that can hit anyone on the map, letting you snipe weak enemies and not care about what gets near.
 

Black Pagan

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Here are some ways that I can think of building a Tanky Character with a Ranged weapon :

Buff, Health Regeneration
Example : A Buff Ability that Regenerates 10% Health every Turn, for next 5 Turns

Passive, Damage Leech
Example : Normal attacks leeches 3% of Damage passively

Trigger, Conditional Defense
Example : A Shield Ability that increases Defense by 30% for next 3 Turns. This Shield only triggers when the Character's Health falls below 75% and has a Cool-down.

On Kill Effect, Minor Heal
Example : For every Successful Kill of an Enemy, You recover 5% Health

Area Effect, Affliction
Example : Fire at all Enemies, Dealing 7% Damage over Time for next 3 Turns. During this time, Incoming Enemy Damage is reduced by 15%.
 

Oddball

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In a turn-based game, however, this idea is hard to convey
I'm using physical attacks for melee attacks, and magical attacks for ranged attacks. Been considering a grid based system, but not sure if im going to do that our not
 

Saireau

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I'm doing it the same way with melee and ranged attacks. :)

What I meant was that the idea of kiting is hard to convey, since there's no movement/positioning in RPG Maker by default. In a grid-based system, something similar to kiting would be possible, I guess. I've never seen anything like it, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun!
 

Trihan

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I think the inherent problem, as kirbwarrior pointed out, is that the two concepts are by definition disparate: a ranged character is generally so in order to *not* take hits from enemies, and a tank is generally there to take hits from enemies. If they're taking hits, there's no point in them being ranged, in other words.

There are some valid points about having a ranged character that controls the enemy via slows/disables, but then you basically have a support ranged or a crowd controlling ranged; they're still not a tank per se.

In the end, the biggest logic issue is that if a ranged character is able to be hit, people in front of them must be too, at which point they're not fulfilling the role of tank any more if they ever were at all.

This has issues of balance as well. Ranged characters are generally a bit less powerful to compensate for their inability to directly take damage. If you have a tank ranged who can be hit by melee but is still dealing less damage, they're no longer offsetting their weakness.
 

duty

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Armored giant cannon that takes time to start up and reload! It naturally protects other peoples due to its ridiculous size
I like this idea. A literal tank IS a ranged tank.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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This is a weird idea to me. Kiting is a term that generally refers to rounding up mobs to move them where you'd like, or possibly avoid the damage, etc. The idea of kiting does not translate well to turn-based gameplay I think.

Generally a tank is going to be the damage sponge, so while mostly tanks have melee attacks/skills, most tanks I've seen already have skills that draw aggro/enmity/hate from every enemy on the field. This is essentially a ranged ability.

The whole point is moot. Tanks already have ranged abilities built into their toolkits in the form of 'taunts' or whatever you may call the enmity skills. If by ranged tank you mean a tank that fires a bow, then I fail to see the 'why?'
 

Oddball

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The whole point is moot. Tanks already have ranged abilities built into their toolkits in the form of 'taunts' or whatever you may call the enmity skills. If by ranged tank you mean a tank that fires a bow, then I fail to see the 'why?'
But any damage they do is almost always melee. I suppose a ranged tank could have attacks that have a wide variety of effects on enemies like debuffs, statuses, taunts, AOE effects, ect. Or maybe things that can support allies from a long range
 

HumanNinjaToo

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I think if you are doing this, you are moving away from what a tank is, and creating the super character. I understand tanks could probably do some damage mitigation debuffs to the enemies, but IMO, if you begin expanding the tanks toolkit to include all sorts of status ailments, party buffs, and AoE then you're moving toward either the super tank or the MMORPG tank. Either way, I would think range becomes a non-issue as a tank. Tank is designed to be in the enemies face, kite the enemy AoE, etc. so that the other members don't take damage.
 

gstv87

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a "tank", in RPG terms, is a character that actively seeks engagement with the enemy, and actively puts itself in the line of fire.
it being ranged for it's offensive aspect, is of no consequence.

as long as the character has ways of affecting the way enemies acquire their targets, ways of actively changing said targets, or ways of increasing it's own capability of sustaining damage, it being ranged or melee, or its abilities of target managing being ranged or not, is of no consequence to the role of tank.

usually, tanks are short-ranged because if they were long-ranged they could easily engage the enemy at a safe distance away, while at the same time being virtually invulnerable to any enemy's attack.
basically: OP.
a tank is good at receiving damage.... if they want to inflict damage, they'll have to risk that capability of being able to receive damage with no complications.
take Heavy, for example, from TF2. He's bulky and slow, and can take in most of the damage amounts that would usually kill other classes and survive. But his weapon is very inaccurate at long range, it takes a moment to make ready, and while in use his moving speed decreases.
if you want to pick up the more damaging weapon and become an active damage dealer, you have to sacrifice even more speed, making you unable to escape those damage amounts that would otherwise leave you wounded but alive.
meaning: one rocket to the face, you can survive.... two rockets to the face? due to being unable to avoid the second one, due to being too slow, due to having the damage-dealing gun equipped? not so much.
Demoman is the opposite end. He can become a tank by equipping his shield and longsword, which grant him the ability to regenerate health. As long as he's in the thick of a melee actively scoring kills, he'll regenerate health.... but in an environment of fast-paced movement, that's hard to achieve... and, since he's melee-ranged, he's vulnerable to ranged fire.
 
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kirbwarrior

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But any damage they do is almost always melee.
Which just happens to be the way it has been done. Let's imagine a pretty typical 'tank'; You have a character that can in some manner take loads of damage and wants to be the one taking all the damage. In a grid system this is getting in the way. In a regular rpg, this usually means taunt or some hidden increased likelihood of being targeted, which can come from something like rows.

None of that needs any particular skill or ability. Ragnar in DQ4 succeeds at being a tank by wearing powerful armor and being at the front of the party.

Which means that the skills can all be about being ranged. And as you put it, all ranged attacks are is magic attacks. As others have said, you can emulate actual tanks very easily this way. You can even simply not give the character any physical (melee) attacks which is its own drawback.

I think the inherent problem, as kirbwarrior pointed out, is that the two concepts are by definition disparate: a ranged character is generally so in order to *not* take hits from enemies, and a tank is generally there to take hits from enemies.
That's funny, you saw a great point I didn't realize I had made XD
 

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