I can't draw...or so I've been told... [not a pitty party lol]

Finnuval

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So some of you may know me most of you don't so here is a small introduction on what you need to know to understand where I am comming from :

I am 41yo, have been drawing since I could hold a pen (I'll even joke that I probably was already grawing in my mom's womb) I have done so as a hobby but also in a more proffesional capacity (long long ago when ppl still liked ugly stuff lol).

To give some perspective, here is a part of a piece I am currently working on :
Canon.png


Anyway, the thing is over the years I have learned things, different techniques, improved, got stuck in a rut, seen trends come and go, seen the rise of digital art, changed my style (a number of tyimes lol), etc. etc.

The one thing that however has always been a constant is, as the title says, I have been told I can't draw (or more elegantly put 'you suck and your art sucks more').

Now I am not going to claim that my art is perfect, far from it. Nor am I going to claim that it's without flaws (there are way to many to even mention haha) or any of that stuff..
BUT... I will claim I can draw. I will even claim that I am pretty decent at it. You might like it or not that's up to you and that is fine.

The point is however that there will always be ppl that will tell me I can't draw. I have learned to easily deal with this as I am happy with wath I do when i am doing it and am usually (somewhat and not always) content with the result.

So anyones opinions, though everyone has the right to have one, are just that - an opinion ( Ofcourse good feedback I'll take and thank you for but that's not what I'm talking about so...yeah) And as such hold no value compared to my own judgement on my own work .But I am not going to let such an opinion bring me down.

Now the reasons I am making this thread is simple :

I have encountered many a person on this forum who struggles with their own art, feeling insecure and inadequate. Now your own demons I can't slay ofcourse, that's up to you guys. However I do want to share the simple fact that there are always (and always will be) ppl who will say your art isn't cutting it - but it doesn;t mean they are right nor that it has anything to do with your art.

For that reason alone you should always value the feedback you get but never let anyone tell you you can't draw and get down because of it.

I would love for other artsy types on here to share their experience/view on this matter aswell and show your level and if YOU have been told the same... Not just visual art either - anyone can chip in.

Anyway that's enough of me (I already talk to much as is lol)
 

ScorchedGround

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lol you ca'nt draw ma n you sux Xd
wAtcH mE dRaW thEse maGnificientd stickmans hehe

You know I'm all for expressing your opinions, but if you don't have anything to say beyond "haha this sucks" you should probably keep it to yourself instead.
People that go around insulting other people's lifework without any arguments or evidence to back them up are truly pitiful. Especially if said people don't even know what they are talking about and pretend to be some kind of expert or authority on the matter.

Oh and by the way, I think the cannon looks amazing, I especially like the shading and the details.
 

Dororo

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I was a comic artist for a couple of years, also teaching to kids.
Guess what? I'm TERRIBLE at drawing.
The reason I've begun is quite comical: I was in love with a girl that was in love with my best pal, a natural gifted artist. So, I've started drawing from scratch using just DETERMINATION as a guide, to compete with my friend. Every single day and night, always drawing. Now, the girl wasn't anything good at all, and my friend is no more.
My skill is terrible, I mean, I really suck at human figures. Really. Anyway, it was easy to cheat kids...
Since once I found I'm really good at abstract art. In the attempt to come with a "manga" style out of nowhere (pre-internet era), I wasn't aware I was teachin my body pure artistic gestures. I don't even sketch it, it flow from my hand so naturally! So, I devised something called "dark liberty" and stuck with it. It does have a very relaxing effect on my soul. I've also shifted to writing, were it look I was gifted since the start XD.
Life is so strange and ironic you can't predict what you'll get in the end. Other people surely doesn't know.
 

ScorchedGround

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Another thing I would like to touch on that came to my mind;

Any form of art is highly subjective. That is a well known and established fact.
You know, "Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder".

Which basically means, who are you to tell other people their art sucks?
Maybe it's their style? Even if it's not and they are still learning, what is so problematic with that? Isn't learning one of humanitys trademarks?

Sadly, it seems as though ignorance is also one of humanitys trademarks.

You can generally see and feel when people put passion, love and thought into their work.
Anything else should not really matter when it comes to art (that obviously includes any form of art really).

So if you make the best stickman of your lifetime, I will be there to compliment on it.
cheers.
 
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MrKiwi

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I'll be honest right away, I don't overall like your drawing, but its nothing about it being bad, its just not my taste. Can't believe you had such a harsh career... :kaoeh: So glad you kept pushing on.

My case is the opposite, people always told I was so good at drawing, that definetly raised my ego a lot back then... Fun thing, you may think that being always praised and supported is good, however, just like bad critics, when there's no backup arguments it means nothing to the artist. Instead of "your draw sucks" I got "wow you're so good", the thing is... why is it good?

This made me get stuck for years, and making me doubt if I should change something on my style; "What if its not good after the change?" "What should I change?" Not blaming anyone in particular, they definetly had good intentions, however its weird how meaningless empty critics can be... the lack of feedback can be a tough enemy.

I had a friend that was a natural at drawing (at the time she made really jealous xd) she didn't practice as much as did, but whenever she drew something... it was a freaking masterpiece! (at least from my past-self perspective) Whenever I asked her for tips she just answered: "I don't know, I just grabbed a pencil..."

As time went on, I started drawing less everyday to the point I went on hiatus. I hated my style, I found it ugly, undetailed, disproportionate and many other things... I saw others works and couldn't avoid thinking: "Why can't I draw like them?" I started drawing with references sometimes, but that just made me hate more my hand because they didn't look a like with the originals.

At some point I started drawing again like I used to in highschool, but with one major difference, secretly. I didn't want anyone to see my draws, I didn't want to get empty praised, or make people think I'm good again... (yes, I was afraid of getting good critics) Nowdays I keep drawing like this, no one close to me, knows I draw. I rarely share some of my works (And I think I mostly do it here) Right now I'm happy with my draws, despite changing the style from month to month, but still don't feel comfortable with sharing it...

Again, I don't care about bad critics, if its helpful I'll take it, if its not, I pass from it. But good critics really scare me... :kaosigh:

Me aside; for anyone who struggles with their own work, if you don't have talent, at least have fun with what you're doing, show your passion not your skill! Every, note, line, sketch, draft, and whatever, has its own beauty and meaning FOR YOU! So don't throw everything away.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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Art is subjective. Any dolt who says any piece of art 'sucks' is just an ignorant turd.

I think the cannon looks great BTW.
 

Tamina

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Another thing I would like to touch on that came to my mind;

Any form of art is highly subjective. That is a well known and established fact.
You know, "Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder".

Which basically means, who are you to tell other people their art sucks?
Maybe it's their style? Even if it's not and they are still learning, what is so problematic with that? Isn't learning one of humanitys trademarks?

Sadly, ignorance is also one of humanitys trademarks.

You can generally see and feel when people put passion, love and thought into their work.
Anything else should not really matter when it comes to art (that obviously includes any form of art really).

So if you make the best stickman of your lifetime, I will be there to compliment on it.
cheers.

I think there is a difference between "skill" and "content", they are not the same. Skill means the artists knowledge in design, value, shapes, as well as their ability to accomplish desired result, which is does have objective measurements.

Content is more subjective, it has more to do with style and theme, and for the most part it's just viewers preference.

Most of the time though, comment like "this person can't draw" usually has more to do with skills, if it has more to do with preferences then the comment would be "I don't like this art".

Your skill has nothing to do with how much money you can make from art. Very frequently an artist relies on marketing and popular content to make money, not necessarily skills. A well known artist with tons of followers may make way more money than someone with good skill but rarely post content in public.

When it comes to skills, gonna remember that someone else will have better skills, always. So by comparison the one with less skill will look like they can't draw. whether you should bothered with it really depend on your goal.

It's impossible to beat everyone else in the world in terms of skills, just take note of where to improve then eventually you will improve and get there. As you improve you will eventually notice more and more people start praising your skill and less people tell you that you can't draw.

As far as your art goes(in terms of skills, not content), I think it would be a good idea to put your work right beside a professional work and compare them, to see how you can do better.
 
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Tamina

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My case is the opposite, people always told I was so good at drawing, that definetly raised my ego a lot back then... Fun thing, you may think that being always praised and supported is good, however, just like bad critics, when there's no backup arguments it means nothing to the artist. Instead of "your draw sucks" I got "wow you're so good", the thing is... why is it good?

This made me get stuck for years, and making me doubt if I should change something on my style; "What if its not good after the change?" "What should I change?" Not blaming anyone in particular, they definetly had good intentions, however its weird how meaningless empty critics can be... the lack of feedback can be a tough enemy.

I had a friend that was a natural at drawing (at the time she made really jealous xd) she didn't practice as much as did, but whenever she drew something... it was a freaking masterpiece! (at least from my past-self perspective) Whenever I asked her for tips she just answered: "I don't know, I just grabbed a pencil..."
The reason why most people can't explain what makes a piece of art good is because they haven't being trained with "art knowledge", such as design theory, how shapes works, how value and color works. When they see a piece of art, the first thing that they see is content and skill level. In general they will just say "this is good" if content is what they like and skill level is above them, but nothing more.

However, an artist with knowledge in color, design, values, shapes and such will be able to nail down exactly what makes an illustration good, and their attention won't be dragged away with personal preference stuff like style or content. These people will be able to give you a more specific feedbacks.

In other words, if you need feedbacks, ask professional artists ideally with more experience than you. Don't ask your friends or neighbors unless they have the background :p

I've seen "talented" people that draw really well without much training from time to time. I believe these people simply have better observation skills, and they are able to produce good result easily. For most people using tons of references is the way to go.
 

Finnuval

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ut if you don't have anything to say beyond "haha this sucks" you should probably keep it to yourself instead.
That is something I fully agree withn on nearly every topis in existance lol

Life is so strange and ironic you can't predict what you'll get in the end. Other people surely doesn't know.
very true :D

So if you make the best stickman of your lifetime, I will be there to compliment on it.
cheers.
a sentiment I fully agree with and share.

I'll be honest right away, I don't overall like your drawing, but its nothing about it being bad, its just not my taste
And you are welcome to have it lol We all have different tastes and so we should :)
I agree that exclusively good critque is just as bad as unbased bad critique.

Art is subjective. Any dolt who says any piece of art 'sucks' is just an ignorant turd.
agreed :)

I think there is a difference between "skill" and "content", they are not the same. Skill means the artists knowledge in design, value, shapes, as well as their ability to accomplish desired result, which is does have objective measurements.

Content is more subjective, it has more to do with style and theme, and for the most part it's just viewers preference.
This is true, however the point is that ppl that shout "your art suck" are not basing this on skill at all. Like Is aid good feedback or feedback like @MrKiwi's I do not like this is nothing wrong with and can only help.
The point I also tried to make is that regardless of what anyone says (beyond true constructive criticism) should never cause selfdoubt and even constroctive criticism shouldnt lead to that.

It's impossible to beat everyone else in the world in terms of skills
And equally true is : There is no pleasing everyone in the world :D

The reason why most people can't explain what makes a piece of art good is because they haven't being trained with "art knowledge"
Here I'll have to disagree with you in the sense that this only applies to wether something is 'technically sound' or not but in reality doesnt determine the value at all in many cases nor does it speak to wether or not a work will catch the viewer. There are to many other factor that come into making a work of art 'good' .

Thanks all for the replies :D
 

MushroomCake28

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Who said that you can't draw? Let me show them the wrath of Canada!

I know that there will always be those who just criticize other people works, and there will always be haters. I know it feels bad when you meet one, and it makes you feel bad even though you know that they are spitting absolute BS. I'm quite sensitive when it comes to my work too, so yeah... it sucks.

As for the subject of subjectivity of art, I will partially agree and disagree to that. Art is subjective to an extend, but there is an objective part too. I will say it's probably like 80% subjective and 20% objective. If you take a great painting very well done, I doubt there will people that say it's ugly. Some may say that's it's beautiful but not quite a masterpiece like other people say, but it still illustrate the point that there's a certain correlation with the objectivity of a work.
 

Finnuval

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Who said that you can't draw? Let me show them the wrath of Canada!
Lol!


I will say it's probably like 80% subjective and 20% objective
I fully agree with this with the adding that ppl tend to give their 'opinion' which is not the same as true 'critisism' in so far as that opinions are usually based on feeling, preference etc. And true critisism is based on skill and technically being sound etc..
 

MushroomCake28

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Yeah. Anyways, no one can say you can't draw after you made that cute little monkey!
 

ScorchedGround

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Your thread actually motivated me to do some art of my own.
I could finally realise my deepest stickman dreams.
(Warning; extremely beautiful art incoming, not for the feint-hearted)

As you can see, he waves at you and is an overall great guy.
He is also sorrounded by a mysterious yellow aura of great power.
This picture took me about 2 hours to finish.
TheVeryBestStickman.png

Ehh... sorry for derailing this thread a little bit, I was just feeling funny for some reason.
 

Tamina

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Here I'll have to disagree with you in the sense that this only applies to wether something is 'technically sound' or not but in reality doesnt determine the value at all in many cases nor does it speak to wether or not a work will catch the viewer. There are to many other factor that come into making a work of art 'good' .
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding because of how the term "good"(without context) is used. "Good" is a broad term and it can mean many things. It needs context to meant anything.

It can mean painting skill: knowledge in design theories, values, colors and how to apply them.

It can mean content: say if you just want to draw funny comic with stickman and successful at making the viewers laugh, the content can be considered "good" at least to those who laughed.

And term "value" can also mean many things.

It can mean money: There are commission that was sold for $10 on deviant art and there are art that's sold for 400 millions.

It can also mean value to the creator or their friends. For example a painting done by my mom probably worth more than a piece that cost 1 million in my mind because it's done by my mom.

I see all 4 things completely separated and never once consider them the same thing.

A "valuable" piece of painting may not have tons of skills involved. A piece by Mark Rothko can sell for millions, but skill wise it's just blocks of paints. A popular web comic artist can produce a stickman comic and get 40k followers.

I did not say the term "good" can only apply to skills, it can apply to different aspects in art and in general I would be specific when I try to describe something is good or not.

But for people that isn't trained for art knowledge, they won't have the ability to judge whether the skill is good if they don't have the skills themselves. They can only talk about preferences and content which they can judge. That doesn't mean the "actual value" of an art decreased, it only meant that they don't have the ability to talk about that specific subject.

Art is subjective to an extend, but there is an objective part too. I will say it's probably like 80% subjective and 20% objective.
I don't quite agree. The entire reason why it seems "subjective" because no metric were set in an discussion. There are many, many, many metrics to measure whether something is good(not just art). If you don't set them then you will get 100 different opinions on what makes something good. 1 will say this art A good because it has good color, another one will say art B is good because it's NSFW, someone else will say art C is good because it's abstract, then it goes on and on.

Now if you set the topic of discussion to "which art has good color" then suddenly art A become "good" because metric has been set. Setting the standard is what makes "subjective point of view" objective.
 
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i've always struggled with mapping. asked for input, and was told it looked indistinguishable from an RTP, in-editor map. made me sigh.0001-CamfordCourtMap-ex.png
 
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Kupotepo

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Is someone here in the website you are referring to or you talk about the people around you? I hope it is not your neighbors.
Again, even you are saying yes. I still do not know that person is.

Yeah, I think your arts are great. I tried to do digital arts, but currently I think I will stretch too thin if I tried to draw on the computer. I like to draw on the paper because it is easy to control the pencil.

Again if something is brother you, this place is welcome to you if you do want to speak to someone privately.
 

lianderson

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Good job mortal.

This one did not read beyond the picture for there were too many letters and this one's eyes are required for the interlocking gaze of this demon that has been summoned so it does not tear down the dark lord's apartment via claws that can easily tear support beams. Our intelligence of emotion was enough to infer that you seek validation for your actions?

You have been validated!

Continue on human, but do not allow this validation to sate your artistic appetite. You must feed it with the impossible validation of yourself via your impossible self inflicted goals. Only in constant failure shall you receive perfection.

Happy existence human, and may you never lose your hunger for improvement.
 

CraneSoft

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I view it from a "twisted" perspective of sorts, since an artist is a type of creature that can never stop changing and improving, and are almost always looking at the art of someone that is better than their own (or to put it frankly, a professional level where most could NEVER hope to even reach), I treat it as a comedic self-deprecating joke (even some pros do that believe it or not) more than anything because from the perspective of a standard artist, I am a mere mortal, looking at the gorgeous creations by the professional "gods", compared to them, I obviously can't draw for shet. :p This type of inferiority insecurity is perfectly normal because we always compare ourselves to those who are superior as a natural instinct. You can never be good enough because simply being good isn't enough to survive in the artistic world.:kaoswt2:

I have only drawn for less than 5 years (as a talentless shmuck no less), a number where noob doesn't begin to describe in this field. I told others (the few who knew my art) my art suck since well that's a fact for people who barely draw in his life, and had personally experienced PTSD not being told by other people that I suck (not sure if people are just being nice or simple didn't care), but from self-realization that my art does indeed suck(how the heck did I produce this abomination?! style) MORE than I imagined.

As for criticisms along the lines of "You can't draw and your art sucks", I personally find them amusing if they can't tell me exactly why they think so, and guess what? Most of the time they really can't because it's either 1)You don't draw what I liked so it sucks! or 2) art is (mostly) subjective and people who can't draw usually can't provide unbiased, constructive feedback, similar to a game review by "journalists" that doesn't actually contain real substance, in which case it is better to treat such as internet noise and move on. Overall though, connecting with other (better) artists and learning their strats is wayyy more important than trying to get feedback from nobodies. People who improve fast are usually people that are great at analyzing and reproducing art than actually being talented.

P.S. Frank opinion from me here, that cannon is actually well drawn, but is far from professional levels in terms of shading and texture which is not strictly necessary in a niche indie game industry. What matters more is style and consistency with the rest of your stuff. :)
 
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And back. Trying to work online with no internet for 1.5 days was...interesting. I felt like a character in a old Sierra game trying to find internet due to all the hoops I had to jump through just to get online for work.
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