I think that this forum's member posts should include their pronoun

[A_Higher_Plane]

Pronouns are identifying information, opinions aren't. Unless you were like on /baph/ on 8ch back in the day, you can't track someone down with, or validate already existing information by cross-referencing what they think about color palettes and combat mechanics. You CAN do that with pronouns however.

Can you elaborate on this? I STILL don't see how pronouns are linked to finding your private information like your credit card number or your phone number. Also this:

I'm really not sure how pronouns can be used to track you down. There are thousands if not millions of transguys in the world. I'm not seeing how me revealing that I am one is equivalent to me posting my address or credit card. Also believe me, the stuff I've learned about people here from their opinions is unbelievable.

Yeah, but then you'd have subgroups of different factions saying, "Oh, well this user didn't fill out the pronouns, so that means they're an ultranationalist superfascist," or, "That user has the pronouns filled out, which means they're a cryptomarxist fellow traveler." It might sound silly to you, but I've seen that happen in many communities.

But we can ALREADY fill out the gender in your RM Web Forums profile. Where does this cause problems?

@HOLYMOTHER I think that you're being a bit silly here.

I don't understand why this became such a big discussion in my thread here.

 

[DrBuni]

I wouldn't mind it, as long as it is optional.

 

[HOLYMOTHER]

@HOLYMOTHER I think that you're being a bit silly here.

Sorry you feel that way, Y. When information is harvested from the state itself, such as when businesses are registered, all it can take is a google search to link phone numbers to addresses and individuals to their relatives.

I've been in some spooky scenes, full of people who didn't think twice about going after their enemies' children, parents, siblings etc. And all over little slights the victims might not have even recognized to be insulting.

There's nothing silly about it, because privacy isn't just about protecting you. It's about protecting the people you care for. And it's little things like pronouns, genders, ages and nationalities that make the difference.

 

[123edc]

*walks in* ... i mean, if someone realy wanted to be adressed as [whatever] he can easyly put it into his username [what]ever ... i mean ... don't make it more complicated, than it has to be

 

[TheAM-Dol]

Yeah, but then you'd have subgroups of different factions saying, "Oh, well this user didn't fill out the pronouns, so that means they're an ultranationalist superfascist," or, "That user has the pronouns filled out, which means they're a cryptomarxist fellow traveler."

Leave all information fields default. Do like me. No avatars. Default pictures, very basic info. Auto-generated user name. Then people will just assume you're lazy or just a fly-by-night account.
I'll create a revolution. All users with default info, we'll ban together. Any user who uses avatars is clearly a Neo-Vorbalist, Wup-wing extremist, Bidrump supporter.

Spoiler

(I'm clearly making a joke, thus the gibberish names)

123edc clearly understands.

 

[Ratatattat]

Yeah, but then you'd have subgroups of different factions saying, "Oh, well this user didn't fill out the pronouns, so that means they're an ultranationalist superfascist," or, "That user has the pronouns filled out, which means they're a cryptomarxist fellow traveler." It might sound silly to you, but I've seen that happen in many communities.

That's... utterly absurd.

In general, I don't really care either way, but I will say that 1) I've also wondered before why this isn't a thing (and struggled to find where pronouns are displayed the first couple times I went looking), and 2) I don't see the issue. We already put pronouns on our profiles, or not. I really find it extremely absurd how many people seem to be against the idea of displaying that very same information in the forums. Seriously, if not to use when referring to someone in forum posts, why does the option even exist?

No part of this says anyone has to fill it out. Just that if you do, it would display here so people don't have to go searching for it to refer to you (like me in the beginning, lol).

But that said, again, it's not a super big deal to me. I have no problem just saying "the OP" or "they/them/their". I just can't wrap my head around the objection here lol.

EDIT: @Sword_of_Dusk - But in that case, Hex is choosing to reveal that. He's going to reveal that somehow anyway. How does that, or the option of showing pronouns in forum info boxes, affect you at all? You can still choose to not disclose your info. That's what I'm not getting the issue with.

And @WaywardMartian - That's your own experience with the forums, but if others want to make it more personal in certain ways then I don't see how that impacts your ability to continue having the same experience, by just not entering your own info.

 

[Shaz]

People call me "he" all the time. Who cares? If I care about what people call me, I will take steps to make it easier for them to know and get it right. If others care about what people call them, they should do the same. But I'd see requiring people to provide this information as an invasion of privacy. A reasonable amount of anonymity online is nice.

On a completely unrelated note, could you please edit your signature to adhere to the forum rules? That's quite a whopper you've got there

6. Do NOT have a signature larger than 800x220 pixels. You may use spoilers to keep your signature smaller than this. Spoiler tags are included in the final size of the signature.

 

[WaywardMartian]

@Ratatattat No, I get that, other people might want it. The way the OP has it phrased is a 'we should do this' rather than an opt-in so the answer was 'no way, random internet person who wants my personal details'.

 

[Ratatattat]

@Ratatattat No, I get that, other people might want it. The way the OP has it phrased is a 'we should do this' rather than an opt-in so the answer was 'no way, random internet person who wants my personal details'.

The way I interpreted it was that there "should" be a line in the info box to the left of posts that display the pronoun the poster has entered on their profile, just like the language they used as a similar example. And if none is given, then I imagine it would just be blank.

I don't know, maybe OP meant something different? I just feel that people are reading too much into this proposal that isn't there. Like, I thought it was just a simple "we already have a place to put this information if we choose, so we might as well display it in this more useful place, too".

 

[KawaiiKid]

 

[Tai_MT]

Honestly? I don't mind if people want to advertise their pronouns. I'll draw the line at REQUIRING me to use them. I don't know any of you well enough to go out of my way enough to do that. I just don't and I just won't. Call me whatever you like. We're not friends. We're acquaintances at best and you are afforded the proper amount of respect "someone I barely know" gets.

On these forums, to me, you are:

1. A username.
2. If I even read your username, because I identify you by your post and don't really even care to learn what your username is most of the time. I pay enough attention to know that the same person is addressing me as in previous comments and that's about it.
3. If I interact with you frequently enough and have enough "good experiences" with you, I will remember your username. I can count on one hand the amount of usernames on these forums I remember, and I've been here quite a while.

Put simply... we're all basically anonymous to each other. We don't REALLY care what each other are up to most of the time, if at all.

So, my vote for pronouns is "I don't care as long as it doesn't inconvenience me or start nonsensical political crap."

If you want to be called Xir, Xim, whatever, that's fine by me. Just don't expect me to adhere to it, because I don't even know what gender most of you are, nor do I even care what gender most of you are. If I say "he" and get it wrong, correct me, and MAYBE I'll remember. I doubt it though. I'll likely remember it for the duration of the conversation you and I are having, and then forget after a couple days pass.

As the song (I Love My Computer) from Bad Religion goes, "Because to you I'm just a number and a clever screen name."

BTW... my terrible, awful, and horrible opinion incoming:

I don't understand people who want random strangers on the internet to acknowledge them in some way. I never will. It's weird to me to think there are people seeking superficial friendships online with the personas we adopt under anonymity, rather than adopting real life friendships with people who don't put up a front.

 

[Ratatattat]

I don't understand people who want random strangers on the internet to acknowledge them in some way. I never will. It's weird to me to think there are people seeking superficial friendships online with the personas we adopt under anonymity, rather than adopting real life friendships with people who don't put up a front.

This topic probably deserves a thread of its own, but my quick two cents:

From personal experience, not everyone has those "IRL" friendships (one of my online friends, not myself), and sometimes those "superficial internet friendships" become "IRL friendships". Most people I befriend online stay online under the guise of our personas (side note: that doesn't stop us from having had pleasant/meaningful conversations, bouncing creative ideas off each other, etc.) - but there is exactly one friend I met online about 6 1/2 years ago, with whom I ended up getting close through conversation (just like IRL), building trust, and actually just met in person for the first time a few weeks ago, so she officially is an "IRL" friend now. As a trans person in rural Oklahoma, she is one of those people who has had no one supporting her in her real life, and so she's had to lean on internet friendships in place of "real" ones, because something is better than nothing.

So there's just a lot of reasons people might care to forge online friendships, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be "that deep". It can be nice to make a connection with someone, whether they're standing in front of you or not, even if it's fleeting. And on occasion, they may end up standing in front of you one day and it might not be fleeting at all. It's a "to each their own" thing, really.

 

[Gunmetal_Dreams]

True. But there's no need to advertise such things. It's unnecessary.

Agreed. And cool Profile pic BTW.

 

[tammie]

@A_Higher_Plane I 100% agree with this idea. A few thoughts on what some members have said:

• "I might not want to reveal my pronouns."
  • That's fine, we should just have an option like "prefer not to say" or something similar.
• "We can already guess this from someone's gender in their bio."
  • However, a spot for personal pronouns would be even more clear than a gender marker, and would result in far less unintentional misuse of pronouns.

But yeah, I think a dedicated spot for personal pronouns would be fantastic. Especially if we could have it appear by members' posts, in the spot that also lists messages, reaction, first language, and primary engine, etc., since it would make it easier in conversations.

 

[Zeireth]

That totally sounds like twitter xD

Yeah let's not make the RPG Maker forums more like Twitter and Facebook please.

 

[Finnuval]

Having it optional, sure
Having it required, nope.

These things should never be a requirement one way or the other for a myriad of reasons (some already listed) but always a possibility.

That's my two cents anyway

 

[deus69xxx]

Oh just a few things from me, the OP:

• As someone has pointed out, how can it infringe someone's privacy if they have a pronoun? As they have said, what they write gives a lot more intimate information about them than the pronoun every could.
• Having a pronoun would make it easier to say things like he/him, she/her, and they.
• The field could be optional so you won't have to fill out if you don't want to.
• I think that you can include your gender already in a person's bio here in the RPG Maker Web Forums, optionally.

that is your answer. "they" is not a specifically owned pronoun, regardless of if anyone wants to be referred to by it, it's very specifically referring to a particular someone regardless of sex. i just use they in almost all instances, regardless, because it's is in all instances 100% accurate.

 

[tammie]

Having it optional, sure
Having it required, nope.

These things should never be a requirement one way or the other for a myriad of reasons (some already listed) but always a possibility.

That's my two cents anyway

Definitely agreed. But even the gender slot is currently optional too, so it makes perfect sense to have the pronoun slot be optional.

It's not so much infringing on privacy as it is giving up a bit of information about yourself that can be used to form a profile. It's probably minor, but if you don't know if I use she/her, he/him, they/them or something else, it's less info to peg my identity with. Of course, there's something to consider regarding this . . .

Then why on earth do you put your gender as Male? If you're so concerned about hiding your profile, then just leave the spot blank.

I don't see personal pronouns as giving any real possibility of forming a real-life profile.

 

[Sword_of_Dusk]

Then why on earth do you put your gender as Male? If you're so concerned about hiding your profile, then just leave the spot blank.

I don't see personal pronouns as giving any real possibility of forming a real-life profile.

I was using myself in my example because it was simple to do. Just because I show mine doesn't mean that applies to everyone else.

As for your second thing, it's been gone over already. Go read what was posted.

 

[tammie]

I was using myself in my example because it was simple to do. Just because I show mine doesn't mean that applies to everyone else.

As for your second thing, it's been gone over already. Go read what was posted.

By your logic, we'd have to remove the gender option too, because gender is an excellent way to profile someone online, right? No, that's entirely unnecessary because it is not required to set a gender. Gender can be left blank. It is exactly the same with personal pronouns.