I think that this forum's member posts should include their pronoun

[Iron_Brew]

Every time this subject comes up people get so het up about people "dictating what pronouns/language they use to refer to people" because "people don't get to dictate their behaviour/restrict their liberties/whatever" - and it's such a confusing take. You're already referring to a person by a username they've chosen, why not use their pronouns too?

If you're objecting to a person's gender expression and not to the arbitrary name they've chosen for themselves I think that's pretty telling of what your actual problem/objection is.

Either way, it feels like this is a perfectly reasonable feature request. Even if you don't care about it, it's no effort for you if it's opt-in. If they don't add it, why not just use your signature to advertise your pronouns?

 

[ATT_Turan]

Even if you don't care about it, it's no effort for you if it's opt-in.

While I'm not militantly against the idea, I don't particularly want there to be more stuff in the profile that shows up next to posts. I think using the custom title or signature areas (which many people already do) is a good solution for this.

There doesn't need to be something else in the profile that my eyes have to scan over that isn't relevant to RPG Maker or forum usage.

 

[Tai_MT]

This topic probably deserves a thread of its own, but my quick two cents:

From personal experience, not everyone has those "IRL" friendships (one of my online friends, not myself), and sometimes those "superficial internet friendships" become "IRL friendships".

I get the point, but for me, providing an exception to the rule doesn't really disprove the rule. It's sort of like playing the lottery at that point. Even then, do you run into a "catfish" sort of issue where the person they were online isn't the person they are in real life? I'd wager most people do at some point.

Most people I befriend online stay online under the guise of our personas (side note: that doesn't stop us from having had pleasant/meaningful conversations, bouncing creative ideas off each other, etc.) - but there is exactly one friend I met online about 6 1/2 years ago, with whom I ended up getting close through conversation (just like IRL), building trust, and actually just met in person for the first time a few weeks ago, so she officially is an "IRL" friend now. As a trans person in rural Oklahoma, she is one of those people who has had no one supporting her in her real life, and so she's had to lean on internet friendships in place of "real" ones, because something is better than nothing.

I'm not saying you can't enjoy the company of people you meet and interact with online. But, having enjoyment in the company of strangers is a far cry different from actually becoming friends and getting rid of the persona you use online. In fact, this very thing happening is why I stopped accepting friend requests online in most instances, and even in video games. I can't count the amount of people who have "friended" me in online places after we had fun that one time and then quickly drop off the map and make no effort to have fun again.

It sort of puts things in perspective when you realize most "friend requests" basically fall into that category.

But, either way, I don't understand wanting to be acknowledged by random people on the internet. I don't see a "gain" in it, personally. From my perspective it looks sort of... sad? Lonely? Like the last drunk guy at the bar begging anyone and everyone to just take him home, 'cause he needs a friend.

Maybe that's not the correct perspective, but that's sort of how it feels to me most of the time.

Could you form a friendship with someone online? Yeah, probably. I just don't understand the desire to seek it out rather than have it occur naturally over the course of a long time. It's the seeking that looks and feels weird to me.

It probably also doesn't help that my definition of "friend" isn't as broad as most peoples. My definition of "friend" doesn't include the "fair weather behavior" of most friendships. That is, a friend is someone who can show up unannounced and be welcomed in without a second thought, dig through your cupboards and fridge for snacks and drinks without you caring, is someone you can call a piece of crap and they will admit to being a piece of crap (and they can do the same to you), and who will take your advice if they ask for it.

Everyone else is just kind of "fair weather" friends. Only around as long as you're fun and convenient and fill some need of theirs.

But, that's my narrow perspective. I've long since removed "fair weather friends" from my "friends group" since they're basically more headache than they're worth.

So there's just a lot of reasons people might care to forge online friendships, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be "that deep". It can be nice to make a connection with someone, whether they're standing in front of you or not, even if it's fleeting. And on occasion, they may end up standing in front of you one day and it might not be fleeting at all. It's a "to each their own" thing, really.

Humanity is all about connections. I don't hate people who desire them. I just don't understand the desire to form connections with someone through their online persona, rather than who they are as actual people.

If you make friends with their alter ego, are you still friends with them as real people? Or would you hate who they are as a real person?

Or is just the connection most important? Connection to anyone, anything, under any circumstance? Is that connection still valuable if you found out that the person you "befriended" is basically a serial killer? Or... I dunno... pick something morally reprehensible. Is a connection with someone you didn't know was morally reprehensible as valuable as one with someone who isn't?

For perspective:

I'm a lot more "forward" and "coldly logical" online. My personality here is far more abrasive than it is in real life. In real life, I'm fairly easygoing, don't really offer my opinion unless someone specifically asks me for it, and am generally kind, considerate, and caring towards everyone.

Who I am online is far different from who I am in real life. If you made friends with the me you see on these forums, would you like the "big softie" that I basically am in real life? Not if you value the parts of me you've seen here online.

We are not who we portray ourselves to be. We portray ourselves as the images we want to project to the world to garner the responses we want from others.

So, from my perspective... is the connection with the fake image of who a person is as valuable to you as a connection with the real image of who the person is?

I mean, I've seen relationships break up when people find out their significant other isn't who they thought they were. I can't imagine friendships are immune to this either.

But, that's my perspective. I like what's real. I don't like to take the chance that someone I "befriend" online will always give me their persona and never be real. Therefore, I don't understand people who are willing to settle for the persona and form a connection with the delusion.

Every time this subject comes up people get so het up about people "dictating what pronouns/language they use to refer to people" because "people don't get to dictate their behaviour/restrict their liberties/whatever" - and it's such a confusing take. You're already referring to a person by a username they've chosen, why not use their pronouns too?

Mostly because you're fighting years of ingrained behavior to make an exception for one or two people.

It's why I make the distinction. I will make the effort to get those pronouns right for PEOPLE I CARE ABOUT. I'm not going to get it right for everyone on the planet and be forced into silly conversations where I have to ask. Especially if I'm only ever going to talk to that person one time in my life. Or what-have-you.

I am not going to extend the same "I care about you" to random people online or in real life that I extend to friends and family. I'm just not. It's silly to expect that of people in the first place.

Pronouns are basically "generalizations". It's a little difficult to tell people, "You need to constantly acknowledge the exception to the rule, every single time you state the rule". Especially when that gets exhausting and frustrating.

Put simply... it essentially strains the social contract most of us live under and abide by.

You are Random NPC #854167398. Until you become my friend or something. Then you become a supporting character. You get a name, a backstory, and the respect due to you. This is basically how all people are in real life. Everyone not in their friend circle is a random mook that takes up space, or a statistic in service to a cause. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you're objecting to a person's gender expression and not to the arbitrary name they've chosen for themselves I think that's pretty telling of what your actual problem/objection is.

I think this is patently false. A name isn't tied to physical characteristics. A person learns your name, or briefly uses it because they just got the information. They can easily forget it tomorrow and not care.

Meanwhile, the pronouns have historically been tied to physical characteristics for millennia. Harder to break a broad generalization that works nearly 100% of the time than to just use someone's name.

Heck, most people can't even be bothered to remember your name in the same conversation.

Also, the forums are easy. You can just scroll up and hit the "at" symbol and then just type the persons' name. Or hit "quote" and never learn their name. Nobody really has to learn anyone's name here. They only use it to "at" people and that's it. Which, is basically just to reply to them. The system is basically automated and requires no effort.

Remembering the pronouns (or looking up the pronouns) of all 161,541 members of the forums sounds exceptionally daunting, doesn't it?

Either way, it feels like this is a perfectly reasonable feature request. Even if you don't care about it, it's no effort for you if it's opt-in. If they don't add it, why not just use your signature to advertise your pronouns?

I agree, it's a decently reasonable feature request. If someone wants to express their gender, I don't mind at all. So long as I'm not required to use those pronouns and those pronouns aren't used to instigate political discussions (sort of like what we're getting here), I see no issue with it.

It's probably not going to happen though, because these talks almost always turn political.

Now, it does beg the question:

If you are allowed to put your pronouns in there... and people aren't REQUIRED to use them... what's the point of having them? If they ARE required to use them... doesn't that effectively turn it from something "optional" into "mandatory"? Doesn't it have much larger and wider implications for the community? Could Reports be made to moderators at that point of "being disrespected" and we have actionable bans as a result?

I mean... I don't want the forums to turn into Reddit and Twitter.

I see no issue with wanting to advertise your pronouns. I see an issue with forcing the userbase to use those pronouns. At that point, you've turned the forums into a hostile political zone.

I mean... we're here to talk about game design and RPG Maker, right? I don't see the merit in utilizing the forums for political discussions of any kind. There are other websites for that.

So, if it's optional and it's not mandatory for anyone to use the ones you select... it's fine by me. I see absolutely zero issue with it what-so-ever, so long as that's all the further it goes.

Once you start "enforcement" of those pronouns though... well, now you start stepping into Reddit and Twitter territory where everyone just turned the website into a political echo chamber and chased out anyone with dissenting opinion.

 

[TheAM-Dol]

I often write walls of text, and right now, you're making me blush with this one...

do you run into a "catfish" sort of issue where the person they were online isn't the person they are in real life?

I used tinder extensively for a year, can confirm, more fish than human. Also the fish are oddly obsessed with crypto...I wonder how that crypto scam is doing now?

We portray ourselves as the images we want to project to the world to garner the responses we want from others.

Been awhile since I read a psych textbook, but isn't it social mirroring? We often adjust our personality based on the group we are with. That's how mobs form.

most people can't even be bothered to remember your name in the same conversation.

I spent a year with a group of students and still only remembered maybe 5 out of the 100 students names. I just assigned numbers, I knew them better by their number.

Remembering the pronouns (or looking up the pronouns) of all 161,541 members of the forums sounds exceptionally daunting, doesn't it?

To be fair here, if you're already scrolling up to double check the user name, the the proposed pronoun in the side bar is just as far away as the user name. So you'd effectively be doing the same thing as before, but now just scrolling up to check the pronoun, not the user name.

I'm not taking any side here, just offering some commentary

 

[Tai_MT]

I often write walls of text, and right now, you're making me blush with this one...

Ah, you must be new here. You should see my post history I probably have 10 or 12 novels worth of text floating around on these forums

I used tinder extensively for a year, can confirm, more fish than human. Also the fish are oddly obsessed with crypto...I wonder how that crypto scam is doing now?

Only tinder? Ha ha, I found there to be lots of catfishing on Steam and Xbox Live as well. Not even just catfishing their genders either. Catfishing ideologies is a huge one.

Been awhile since I read a psych textbook, but isn't it social mirroring? We often adjust our personality based on the group we are with. That's how mobs form.

No idea. I only ever took the one semester of Psychology and one of Sociology back in high school. Didn't get much out of it. Some of it made sense, but a lot of it was easily demonstrably proven false just by people I knew in school at the time.

It's probably more apt to say that people adjust themselves to live life in the way that provides them the most pleasure with the least pain. Some opt to just "fall in line", others opt to "do their own thing, because it's far less annoying and tedious to do so".

Most of us, online, however, tend to craft personas of who we would like to be. Projecting who we want to be. There's no consequence for being anyone we want online. We can be as kind or rude as we like and there's really no consequence for it. It's a form of validation seeking. Some people are far kinder online because they want a lot of people to like them. Some people are far less kind online because they're seeking validation from "making the people dance". Or, rather, just interact with them and keep them trapped with them for as long as possible.

I spent a year with a group of students and still only remembered maybe 5 out of the 100 students names. I just assigned numbers, I knew them better by their number.

I spent 13 years working for state government with hundreds of people and only learned the names of:
1. My supervisor.
2. The teammate I interacted with.
3. The gal who ran the coffee shop downstairs.
4. The other teammate I interacted with.
5. The two or three gals who liked to come over and yell at our division for making mistakes.

So... hundreds of people and I knew the names of like... 6?

I didn't even learn the names of the 300+ people I trained in those years. They didn't rate "learning their names".

I didn't start taking "learning names" seriously until I became a Supervisor. Then, I learned everyone's names. Out of "professional courtesy". When I left the Supervisor job, I went back to "learn nobody's name". So, I know the names of:

1. My current team of 12 coworkers (and I still stumble at their names frequently, despite it being a year).
2. The name of my boss.
3. The name of my boss's boss.
4. The 5 other people outside our division I need to interact with on a daily basis because I need something from them.
5. The one sweet old lady who calls in nearly every day with questions. She's wonderful.

To be fair here, if you're already scrolling up to double check the user name, the the proposed pronoun in the side bar is just as far away as the user name. So you'd effectively be doing the same thing as before, but now just scrolling up to check the pronoun, not the user name.

I mean... IF you do that. I tend to just let the "auto fill" do the work for me when I at someone, ha ha. I don't even really look at that sidebar all that much. I'm not even sure if I'm the only one who basically ignores that sidebar or not.

But, it does present problems when you're talking to someone else about a user. "So and so said X, he was right". Do you go scroll to their profile and last topic you saw them to get their pronouns before using them? Seems like a hassle to me.

I'm also just not fond of having to look up someone's pronouns constantly before making any post where I'm talking to them or about them. It's a lot of extra work.

You might actually notice that my speech is structured in such a way that I never have to use someone's pronouns. It's easier to just never use pronouns, ever, than it is to attempt to remember the pronouns every individual wants to use.

Basically, I took the "most efficient" way out. Remember everyone's pronouns? Heck no! Too much work! NOBODY gets pronouns now! You are all "hey you!" or your screen name.

Deal with it.

I'm not taking any side here, just offering some commentary

 

[ScorchedGround]

Firstly, my rational thinking:

If it's an opt-in option, then why not?
The people that would like to use it can do so and all the others can just go about their business as usual. I don't see the great harm this could do. Unless of course especially superficial people decide to take someone's proclaimed pronouns or lack thereof to make some sort of characterization.

---

As for my personal opinion;

I didn't even consider an option like this.
When talking to people, I usually go about it like that:

- Generally, I will just refer to them by username, it's the most straightforward and convenient way

- If I directly interact with someone, I just use "you".

- If I "know" the person, meaning I interacted with them on multiple occasions and/or over a long time, then I may look at their profile to check their gender and adress them by their genders' pronouns occasionally. This mostly applies to longer threads like discussions and feedback.

- If I don't know the person OR the person has not made their gender public, I just go back to they/them (I try my best, sometimes I birdbrain however and default to he/him or she/her based on my perception though)

This has worked pretty well in the past.
So I personally am indifferent to that option and don't see any particular need for it.
But again, the option might be nice for some and why not let them have it?

---

If an option like that is added however, please make sure that we can input pronounsq ourselves so that I can finally become the attack helicopter I always wanted to be.

 

[tammie]

Hey @Tai_MT Here's the problem with your view. Maybe you don't understand why some people want their identity be validated. But many people do. And I am one of them.

 

[IvanForever]

So there's just a lot of reasons people might care to forge online friendships, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be "that deep". It can be nice to make a connection with someone, whether they're standing in front of you or not, even if it's fleeting. And on occasion, they may end up standing in front of you one day and it might not be fleeting at all.

I just want to comment briefly(?) on this, and then be out. You brought up something important and interesting

I don't like society's idea that there is a difference between online and "real" life; the idea that there are "strangers," even. I also don't like the idea that you shouldn't be real on the Internet; the idea that online connections are "not as important" as "real" ones like family etc.

This is also why I say "in-person friends" or "local friends" instead of "IRL friends," as the latter can imply that "real" friends are more real (which isn't necessarily always the case) or that there are two worlds (online and offline, which isn't necessarily true either).

It's quite the opposite for me and many of my friends; we have a lot of good "real" friends locally, but we also have a lot of so-called "online" friends too. However, the friends met through the Internet have much deeper connection. I consider the friends I met online, for only less than one or two years, as my close friends (even if I haven't met most of them), while people I know in person for over a decade is nowhere even close to that. And I just know in a deep way that these "online" friends are lifelong connections, even if I hardly "know" things about them (what they do for work, who their family is, etc... these "trivial" things).

I find myself lying more often in "real" life to fit societal perceptions and such, while I am more honest with my thoughts online. So I am more "fake" in person, while I am real online. People can show more of their true inner selves on the Internet; while in "real" life fit a societal politeness thing and "appear nice." (for example)

There's also human intuition. It's very easy for me to almost instantly know which people are being a persona online, which people are being real online, and so on. However, it doesn't affect me on whether I want to socialize with them; every connection, even "bad ones," can serve their purpose and add something to the table. I keep all of my friends (even if I don't talk to them) regardless of online or in person because you never know if a "pointless online connection" turns out to offer something wonderful for you years later, completely by surprise; if I had not kept them on my online friends list, it probably wouldn't have happened. Life can be full of beautiful surprises if one opens their heart to it.

I also don't like our society's idea of these "staying safe," "privacy," and "anonymity" things, especially when the Internet is being seen as something "different" from "real" life. They are not two "different" things or worlds for me. I believe avoiding "danger" is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.

 

[gstv87]

- If I directly interact with someone, I just use "you".

- If I "know" the person, meaning I interacted with them on multiple occasions and/or over a long time, then I may look at their profile to check their gender and adress them by their genders' pronouns occasionally. This mostly applies to longer threads like discussions and feedback.

- If I don't know the person OR the person has not made their gender public, I just go back to they/them (I try my best, sometimes I birdbrain however and default to he/him or she/her based on my perception though)

and here is where I ask the question: *what* is the overwhelmingly impending reason that prevents people to use *THIS* as the one guideline otherwise known as "common sense"?

pronouns only matter when the person in question is NOT in the conversation, NOR in the immediate vicinity.
when you talk to someone directly, you use "YOU!"
the only exception where you should observe some particular form of addressing, is before people with social titles such as "doctor", "judge", "senator", etc... and even those vary from country to country, so there is not A way to address people.

do I have to bring out the big gun of common sense?
I have it, it's right here, just standing by.

 

[Tai_MT]

@ts50 Everyone wants validation. Doesn't really make you special. I just don't understand the need to seek it from strangers on the internet.

I've always found it disconcerting that people don't find value in themselves and have to find that value from others. They don't seek validation from within, but instead seek it from without.

You are, primarily who you are. The sum of your experiences, opinions, personality, and friends you keep. That's who you are as a person. Anything else is superficial. A tertiary characteristic of who you are as a person.

We all want validation to some degree or another. Validation from strangers on the internet always just seems sort of "sad" to me. People who neither know you, nor care about you. If you disappeared tomorrow, people who wouldn't even know you were gone or even miss you.

Why is it important to get validation from strangers? From people you don't even care about?

Just reeks of narcissism to me. The desire for EVERYONE to love that person, whether they're right or wrong.

Love is conditional. So is "liking" someone. It's all conditional. So, why waste time and effort trying to get people who don't know you and don't care about you to "like" you and to "validate" you?

No matter who you are, it is unhealthy from a psychological standpoint to seek your validation from strangers. It means your entire outlook on yourself is enslaved to the opinions of others. It means you cannot take joy and comfort from anything except when people tell you exactly what you want to hear. It means you can never be comfortable in your own skin.

Do you accept who and what you are? If yes, then that's all that is important. Are you comfortable being who you are? If yes, then what more validation do you need? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of you. It only matters that you can accept yourself, flaws and all, and be proud of who you are and what you've personally accomplished.

That's it. That's all. It's no more complicated than that.

So, yes, I view people seeking validation from random strangers on the internet to be "nonsensical" and "sad". I don't understand it, nor do I understand anyone who WANTS to live their life like that.

I am me. You are you. Who you are makes you special without anything else needing to be added or anyone else acknowledging it.

You are human. You have human experiences. Good ones and bad ones. You have days where you feel on top of the world and days where it feels like the world is conspiring against you. You have fits of rage and depression and long periods of complete and total joy.

You are human. Nothing more, nothing less.

Unless, of course, you're an alien or something. I don't want to assume, but if you are an alien, then you're also special for being an alien.

No experience you have is unique to our species, but it is unique to you. Nobody will care about you as much as you care about yourself. Nobody will fight as hard for you as you will for yourself. Nobody will acknowledge how far you've come better than yourself.

And hey, you have come pretty far. From wherever you started. You've come pretty far. Think about that for a moment. What were your thoughts and ideas and opinions 5 years ago? 10 years ago? I'd wager they were different. Maybe less refined. Maybe more childish. They've matured and evolved over time with you. You've come a long way. A very long way. Nobody knows how far you've come except you.

Isn't that validation worth holding onto? Worth seeking?

So, no, I don't understand people who need to seek their validation through random strangers. Such validation is nearly meaningless and always fleeting. It isn't born from perspective, it is born just through "societal expectation". The reflex of someone thanking you. Giving you the hollow words that are meaningless. Input A, output B. Mechanical in nature.

I don't ascribe to living like that. To being trapped like that. I don't understand anyone who is willing to delude themselves into living in a fake reality like that. I can't understand them.

How can a bird free from the cage ever understand why the birds trapped in their cage are happy with being trapped?

 

[gstv87]

@Tai_MT you may never know the details, but that same point you just made to ts50, was already brought up to her, somewhere else.
that same exact point.
that's all I'll say.

 

[Tai_MT]

@gstv87 was I the one who made that point? I only ask, because it's not the first time I've made this exact point on these forums.

If not, now I'm curious who else on these forums delves deep into human psychology, philosophy, and theories on personal fulfillment. There might be room for an epic debate on the subjects somewhere else with them That could be fun.

 

[gstv87]

@Tai_MT you just did, just now. I also did, two days ago.

 

[TheAM-Dol]

I also don't like our society's idea of these "staying safe," "privacy," and "anonymity" things

See, I was following you up until you put privacy in quotes...

I guess I'm taking somewhat of a side in this discussion now: I've been a long, long time privacy advocate (RIP TekSyndicate)
I feel like some of the responses for privacy protection in this thread sort of misrepresent it, making it more as a stance on privacy to protect yourself from individuals, when in reality, privacy is so much more than that.
To me, the individual is not what I want to protect myself from. Most of the heinous acts of derranged individuals act towards publicly facing figures (not that I am saying that's a good thing, it shouldn't happen period). I can't speak for everyone here, but I can imagine at least 99% of us do not have the public presence here that would warrant someone seeking us out. The way I see it is if 4Chan can track down the location of a flag that has practically zero markings to denote its location, then really, anyone who is determined to track you down, can do it. However, the side effect of protecting our privacy from other entities will naturally result in protecting ourselves from the individual as well.

Privacy really is more of a matter of protecting our lives from corporations and the government. And I know it all sounds tin-foil-hat, but I would hope events like Cambridge Analytica and the recent Facebook whistle blower would have shown people that our data is not safe and can and will be used to weaponize the mob; all of us: me and you; we can all be easily manipulated to sway our vote, to sway our habits, to sway our opinions. It's just a matter of having a map of what is important to you, then using that information to "tickle" you into the right direction by using your emotions, especially eliciting outrage.
Someone earlier in this thread had mentioned something a long the lines of "well I'm just 1 in thousands of trans people, so it's not like they would know who I am" seemed to miss the point of profiling. You are correct: if that was all the information we had to go on, it would be tough to know who that person is, but they already gave us a lot of information. We know they are a trans, we know they use RPG Maker, and we know they are actively using the RPG Maker forums. I wonder if the user name on the forum has been used on other websites? If so, can those websites tell us more about them? Do you see how profiling works? Inocuous bits of information, on their own, may not be valuable. But, each little data point narrows the field down more and more until we are able to pin point it within a very scary, and extremely small margin of error because how many people in the world have the exact same interests as you at the same age using the same websites with the same orientation?
And again, if you are someone who thinks, "Well not my government." I'll stay vague here, but let me just remind you that long held establish rights were effectively swept away. Whether it's something you agree with or not, is not really the point here. The point is that they can and will, given enough power to sweep rights away, it's really just a matter of when do they try to sweep away something you care about?
Data harvesting has been used extensively in an unnamed Asian country to control and manipulate the thoughts and ideas of their people. With a personal monitoring device in everyone's pocket, and CCTV on ever street corner, they can and will find out who you are and destroy your life until you cooperate or die. So, if you ever wanted to see the extreme of what "rights being swept away" looks like, you can investigate further.

Even still, corporations and governments are not my biggest fear when it comes to privacy. It's the mob.
Unfortunately we seem to exist in an atmosphere of unforgiveness and outcast. Having certain opinions can easily lead to an individual wanting to hunt you do out of a mob of people who disagree. Most likely the mob may just shame you for your opinion and black list you, but in the worst case, the mob can ruin your life. The mob doesn't care about justice, the mob treats all as guilty until proven guilty. As someone who was falsely accused and had 2 years of my life ruined, arguably more than that as I still am dealing with consequences of it to this date, I fear the mob and what lies can do. People who can tie your online opinion back to your real life can destroy you and you won't even get a chance to understand what is happening. There are opinions I have that I will take with myself to the grave because I dare not even attempt to have a conversation about them as any nuance in my opinion would swiftly be erased and I would quickly be branded and outcast. The point is that I do my best to keep my online life and offline life separate for a reason, and this is why privacy is important. Does it pertain much to the main topic of this thread? Only partially, but I hope the importance of privacy at the very least won't be questioned in this thread any more.

Anyways, how's that @Tai_MT for a wall of text?

 

[tammie]

@ts50 Everyone wants validation. Doesn't really make you special. I just don't understand the need to seek it from strangers on the internet.

I've always found it disconcerting that people don't find value in themselves and have to find that value from others. They don't seek validation from within, but instead seek it from without.

You are, primarily who you are. The sum of your experiences, opinions, personality, and friends you keep. That's who you are as a person. Anything else is superficial. A tertiary characteristic of who you are as a person.

We all want validation to some degree or another. Validation from strangers on the internet always just seems sort of "sad" to me. People who neither know you, nor care about you. If you disappeared tomorrow, people who wouldn't even know you were gone or even miss you.

Why is it important to get validation from strangers? From people you don't even care about?

Just reeks of narcissism to me. The desire for EVERYONE to love that person, whether they're right or wrong.

Love is conditional. So is "liking" someone. It's all conditional. So, why waste time and effort trying to get people who don't know you and don't care about you to "like" you and to "validate" you?

No matter who you are, it is unhealthy from a psychological standpoint to seek your validation from strangers. It means your entire outlook on yourself is enslaved to the opinions of others. It means you cannot take joy and comfort from anything except when people tell you exactly what you want to hear. It means you can never be comfortable in your own skin.

Do you accept who and what you are? If yes, then that's all that is important. Are you comfortable being who you are? If yes, then what more validation do you need? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of you. It only matters that you can accept yourself, flaws and all, and be proud of who you are and what you've personally accomplished.

That's it. That's all. It's no more complicated than that.

So, yes, I view people seeking validation from random strangers on the internet to be "nonsensical" and "sad". I don't understand it, nor do I understand anyone who WANTS to live their life like that.

I am me. You are you. Who you are makes you special without anything else needing to be added or anyone else acknowledging it.

You are human. You have human experiences. Good ones and bad ones. You have days where you feel on top of the world and days where it feels like the world is conspiring against you. You have fits of rage and depression and long periods of complete and total joy.

You are human. Nothing more, nothing less.

Unless, of course, you're an alien or something. I don't want to assume, but if you are an alien, then you're also special for being an alien.

No experience you have is unique to our species, but it is unique to you. Nobody will care about you as much as you care about yourself. Nobody will fight as hard for you as you will for yourself. Nobody will acknowledge how far you've come better than yourself.

And hey, you have come pretty far. From wherever you started. You've come pretty far. Think about that for a moment. What were your thoughts and ideas and opinions 5 years ago? 10 years ago? I'd wager they were different. Maybe less refined. Maybe more childish. They've matured and evolved over time with you. You've come a long way. A very long way. Nobody knows how far you've come except you.

Isn't that validation worth holding onto? Worth seeking?

So, no, I don't understand people who need to seek their validation through random strangers. Such validation is nearly meaningless and always fleeting. It isn't born from perspective, it is born just through "societal expectation". The reflex of someone thanking you. Giving you the hollow words that are meaningless. Input A, output B. Mechanical in nature.

I don't ascribe to living like that. To being trapped like that. I don't understand anyone who is willing to delude themselves into living in a fake reality like that. I can't understand them.

How can a bird free from the cage ever understand why the birds trapped in their cage are happy with being trapped?

There are people on the internet who would care if I disappeared. Let me give you an actual example, yes? I played an MMO with lots of people and I joined a "guild." I had a few real good friends there. Then one day I disappeared, so to speak. That is, I disappeared from the game.

Some real bad stuff happened IRL, like really bad, but I'm not going to talk about it. Suffice it to say that when I was finally able to get back, between three and four years later, I had messages from literally over a dozen people spread out over several months, panicked messages asking where I had been? I responded to them all, but at least half of them had not said anything for at least a year or two and have not replied back to me.

Perhaps you don't have any friends online who would care about you. But do not place that norm on others.

 

[Archeia]

Hey everyone, I understand the need for pronouns since it makes communication easier and makes some users comfortable. But I would like to request for users to put it in their About Me section for the time being.

 

[Sword_of_Dusk]

By your logic, we'd have to remove the gender option too, because gender is an excellent way to profile someone online, right? No, that's entirely unnecessary because it is not required to set a gender. Gender can be left blank. It is exactly the same with personal pronouns.

Let me make something perfectly clear: I do not care if it were made an option. I've given reasons why I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but that's all I've done, and I certainly wouldn't complain if the option gets added. You can take your indignation elsewhere, because I'm not gonna sit here and be opposition just to do it. I'm not even the only one who was on the side of "nah". I'm legitimately sorry if I offended you, but please don't make this into something it's not.

 

[IvanForever]

@TheAM-Dol I will be brief with you and I'm out, as in my experience, not really worth the time explaining further if you didn't already understood my first post. And since you are pushing the "importance of privacy" thing, and kept on shoving "real-world facts and examples" onto me; projecting your "facts" and life story onto me. In short, this is a mindset and "attitude" of life. It bothers me it's a norm of our society to "live in fear" and be like "people are out there to hurt you, so protect yourself. Privacy is important!!" I find this ridiculous. So much focus on this "protect yourself" thing and, to me, not a good use of energy. It's a mentality.

These are only beliefs, and you can basically only experience facts that are within your beliefs. I have suffered a lot in my life, had my life ruined possibly worse than you, and I did not choose to succumb to beliefs and believing "facts" like that. It's a choice, and I am not giving up my conscious living in place of this illusion known as "safety" and "security."

 

[TheAM-Dol]

had my life ruined possibly worse than you

Come on man, it's not a competition.

 

[Archeia]

I'm sorry for cutting this thread short but this is getting heated.