I want to make a Kingdom Hearts fan game. Is that ok to do?

LuckyLeafGames

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
I want to make a Kingdom Hearts fan game, with characters from Final Fantasy but instead of Disney worlds it would be Don Bluth worlds (The Land Before Time, All Dogs go to Heaven, The Secret of Nimh, An American Tale, Anastasia). Is it legal to do so and let it be playable to people if I completed it?

I already have an idea for a story, just want to know the general consensus on fan games and copy-written material over here.
 

Kes

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
22,299
Reaction score
11,713
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
If it is copyright material, don't do it. Simple as that. It's illegal and will cause a lot of hassle. Do a quick search for 'copyright' in this forum and in 'Commercial RPGMaker Discussion' and you will see all the arguments against it. Those arguments apply to free games as well as commercial ones. Also note that some things, like names for example, could well be trademarked, and trademark law is even more vigorously enforced than copyright.

However, if your characters are inspired by characters in other games, then you should be fine. So, different names, different sprites, different character art (if you're using it), some different characteristics. You will have made those characters your own.
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
31,434
Reaction score
7,713
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
direct fangames using the original names (no matter which one) are all illegal due to trademark infringment - you simply can't use the name of a registered franchise for your own works. And that is completely independent of the copyright matters mentioned by Kes.

If you give your game your own name and only say "inspired by XYZ" without using that other name, then you have a chance of avoiding all the legal problems on this...
 

LuckyLeafGames

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
That bad huh? I thought fan games were ok as long as no profit is made. Could have sworn I've seen fan games on here before.
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
31,434
Reaction score
7,713
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@LuckyLeafGames
You have - Copyright/Trademark law is a civil law, which means that only the IP holder can initiate action, and some of them tolerate fangames.
That doesn't change the fact that fangames are breaking those laws, it only means that the person holding the rights hasn't ask them to take them down.
And as long as a fangame does not contain rips, we allow them to stand here as well until the IP holder asks us to take them down (anything else would be a logistical nightmare anyway, which is one reason why copyright is a civil law to begin with).
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,528
Reaction score
14,261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Also note that Square is notorious for giving C and D to fan games to get them removed (I think the last fan game I know of using their work lasted 1.5 days on the net), and Disney is even more notorious for going after them. Using work by both is just asking them to come after you.

Probably for the best to make your own work instead, or ask both parties for permission.
 

walkinthru

Final Boss?
Veteran
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
32
Reaction score
13
First Language
english
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I'm actually glad this board came up, I mean I ran into a fan game or two on this forum so I didn't think it was considered that big a deal. So let me get it straight. It's overall illegal but the forums won't enforce anything unless the ip holder asks for it to be removed or the game has straight rips. Now that begs the question on what is considered a rip. For example I'm working on a "yu-gi-oh" fan game and I'm using monsters that exist in the series but the sprites are made by someone I hired. Considering that things here and there are from the series but the art is made by me am I still allowed to post my "fan game" on this forum?
 

LuckyLeafGames

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
Well see heres where it gets tricky. Theoretically, if I did this, (which I may not due to the replies I'm getting), the title wouldn't use a trademark. Also, there would be no Disney movie characters, it would be a bunch of characters from old movies made in the 80's and 90's which have been forgotten about by many. Don Bluth seems like a nice guy, I don't think he'd mind if I made a game using some of his beloved characters (heck, even he's made a game in the past called "Dragon's Lair"). Although I suppose since he does have a website it would be possible to inquire for permission.

And if Square Enix is really that strict with fan games, I suppose I'd have to maybe not include the Final Fantasy characters or at least include a bare minimum. I would love to make my own work with my own original story, the problem is I've never finished a game fully and I figured doing a fan game would make it easier to finish. Who knows, though.

I just sent an email to the Don Bluth website for the heck of it. Doesn't hurt to try and at least I'll know for sure whether or not to attempt it.
 
Last edited:

Ms Littlefish

Dangerously Caffeinated
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
Messages
6,417
Reaction score
8,104
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@walkinthru If the sprites and artwork are made by someone else, they are not rips. Rips, in the way the word is commonly used, refers to materials that are directly lifted from their source material.
 

walkinthru

Final Boss?
Veteran
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
32
Reaction score
13
First Language
english
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Ms Littlefish alright then considering that "everything" in my game is made by someone I hired and the game is non-commercial. Am I allowed to post my "fangame"
 

JosephSeraph

White Mage
Restaff
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
1,186
Reaction score
1,444
First Language
Portuguese
Also note that Square is notorious for giving C and D to fan games to get them removed (I think the last fan game I know of using their work lasted 1.5 days on the net), and Disney is even more notorious for going after them. Using work by both is just asking them to come after you.

Probably for the best to make your own work instead, or ask both parties for permission.
Actually I know plenty of fangames using their works that are extremely popular and have been on the net for years... some more than a decade, and some close to two decades. It is, in fact, completely illegal to create fangames. Did you know it is also 100% illegal to create fanart? That which the majority of beginning internet artists is forced to do for their artwork to be noticed? Merely creating art using copyrighted characters is completely illegal, selling it is a step further, yet you see it everywhere from anime conventions to literally every art site on the internet.

Did you also know that in Japan, there are huge, extremely popular conventions that sell comics and games based on trademarked stuff? Yeah, they sell fangames and fan comics there, and the companies turn a blind eye to all of this because it benefits them -- by spreading their IP and more importantly, allowing beginner talent to thrive, which then proceeds to become part of the industry.

While fangames are a bit different on the west, the only ones that actually do get a Cease & Desist are mostly extremely ambitious projects that have been years in the making or rom hacks. That's because pursuing a case like this is actually expensive, and I don't think any companies would want to go to court because john doe has made a game with the Final Fantasy name on RPG Maker. Even fi that game is insanely popular like Final Fantasy: Blackmoon Prophecy.

Just avoid using any trademarked titles as your game's title and you're pretty much 99% safe. If the worst happens, change names around and voilá, immune to legalities : P

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT If you're not doing a fangame because you love the source material or for study purposes, rather because it is "easier", I urge you to check your priorities straight, you should, in this case, create a 100% original game :p
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,528
Reaction score
14,261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@JosephSeraph : There's always exceptions. The one I was referring to was a game reported by a gaming site, and it was gone the next day. Basically, the moment the game's famous enough to be reported on, a C and D is probably coming within a day or two.

Also you are forgetting that in some countries, the company HAS to sue the fangame, or risk losing all rights to the trademark (or is it copywrite. I forget which it is). So in that case, they have no choice but to pursue legal action, no matter the cost to attacking John Doe's fangame.

It all comes down to the law in various parts of the world. That being said, you *probably* could make a game using the same idea but with none of the names. After all, look at how many Diablo clones there were once Diablo was released (same with Starcraft and Warcraft)?

However, I am going to end this with a cavet. We are *not* lawyers. I suggest getting official legal advice on this matter from someone who knows international law and how it works in this case if you do decide to pursue the fangame.
 

LuckyLeafGames

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
To be clear, I'm not interested in doing a fan game just because it's "easier". I genuinely love the source material I'd be inspired by.
 

BrandedTales

StoryTeller
Veteran
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
203
Reaction score
116
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
This may go a little off-topic, but based on some of the comments I can't help myself. I would chime in one more reason to target an original work.

I don't think a fangame is any easier, in all honesty. You save yourself some trouble because the characters are created, and you just have to be true to them... But you still have to come up with an original story, made doubly hard by the fact that you can't tweak a character detail to make your story fit if necessary.

You are also carrying the burden of fighting the rest of the public's preconceived notions of those characters, and doing justice to them. Even if we've both watched All Dogs Go to Heaven a hundred times, how you interpret what Charlie is going to do in a unique situation and what I interpret are likely going to be two different things.

The only real "easier" that a fangame brings is instant brand recognition, letting you capitalize on that brand's fame.... Which you might not want to do on a first game, since by their nature, first games are our worst games. (So if it isn't the Magnum opus of fan games, you may have sabotaged your repeat fans).

All that said, make what you love and if you love the content go for it... But the audience you may be making it for may be yourself (and if you are fine with that, power to you!)
 

Basileus

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
311
Reaction score
446
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
@bgillisp is correct, and the USA is one of those countries where companies holding the rights to an IP need to pursue action because you cannot selectively enforce and failure to defend means losing the rights. Either the company goes after John Q. Public's one-man-studio fan game, or they can't stop a rival studio from infringing that IP later on.

And yes, all forms of copyright infringement such as Fan Art, Fan Fiction, Fan Games, etc. are illegal and Cease and Desist orders can be issued at any time to have that content removed with the threat of legal action. When the Internet was a lot smaller than it is today it was actually very risky for a site to even host content with infringing IPs and sites used to get shut down. These days that stuff is so prolific that no one could hope to stamp out everything, so precedent is that "small" IP infringements like Disney art on DeviantArt get overlooked unless someone important finds out or it's being sold commercially without rights. Sort of like old-time military officers in movies not strictly enforcing regulations with plausible deniability ("Put that booze away before I'm forced to notice it"). As long as the company holding the IP can make a reasonable claim that they were unaware the infringing image/fiction/game existed then they maintain rights as long as they take action once it has been brought to their attention.

So making Final Fantasy fan art is fine, but if it gets noticed too much and someone sends it to SquareEnix, then SquareEnix would be forced to issue a C&D and pull the content or else they risk losing IP rights to that material. And if they lie and say they didn't know about it but are ordered to turn over their emails then they can add perjury charges to their problems. So it's way easier to just go after the little guy if they step out of line.

Also worth noting is that Don Bluth very likely does not hold the rights to any of the characters in those movies anymore. The rights to those movies are probably owned by Warner Bros. or Universal or Disney. Just because Disney didn't publish it back in the day doesn't mean that they didn't buy it after the fact. And I know for a fact that those 3 absolutely do go after people for copyright and trademark violations.

Japan's massive "doujin" events like Comiket where tons of trademark infringing stuff is sold is only possible because Japan's IP law is massively less strict. And the fact that most anime and manga artists at the major studios all got their start doing fan works of popular characters means that the actual artists of the characters being copied strongly defend the right to make said fan works since it builds the future generations of artists. The anime/manga companies in Japan actually wind up being big players in lobbying against strict less since they value the symbiotic relationship with their works and fan works.

(fun fact: this was usually in the form of hentai, so the creators of many modern classic anime and manga got their start making pornographic material)

I can't recommend making a fan game since there are issues, even if most people wouldn't encounter them due to the vastness of the web. But if you were to be one of the unlucky ones to have your project noticed by the wrong people I'd hate for all of your work to get slapped with a C&D. It's really better to just make an original game. Make a character that is nearly identical if you want those exact character traits. It's not like any of the characters in the Don Bluth movies and Final Fantasy are even truly original in the first place anyway. As the saying goes "All that can be said has been said. There is nothing new under the sun."
 

LuckyLeafGames

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
60
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
I've thought about it and even attempted to sprite Littlefoot from The Land Before Time...and failed miserably. The fact that I can't manage to sprite a dinosaur is problematic enough for me to consider doing something original and possibly even just use the RTP character generator and pre-made sample maps for my first little game. No way I would be able to even sprite all the characters and worlds I'd need for my little pipe dream project. Ah, well I guess I have some thinking to do.
 

BrandedTales

StoryTeller
Veteran
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
203
Reaction score
116
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
@LuckyLeafGames

I think that's a great place to start, but don't lose heart! The thing I do to keep things in perspective for me is watch the credit roll of the game I ultimately want to make.

There are dozens (if not hundreds) of people involved, and it took them multiple years. And most of them probably aren't on their first game. Just know each completed game builds skills and relationships to get you ready to make that opus... And who knows, maybe copyright laws will have changed (not likely, but you never know)
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy'
Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
14,682
Reaction score
3,003
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Also note that Square is notorious for giving C and D to fan games to get them removed (I think the last fan game I know of using their work lasted 1.5 days on the net), and Disney is even more notorious for going after them. Using work by both is just asking them to come after you.

Probably for the best to make your own work instead, or ask both parties for permission.
I personally had a friend who is just trying to make a game based on a disney franchise for learning purposes, the only posts about it yet are progress ones and it wasn't yet posted into different sites (the only place I know progress of it was on facebook) and yet Disney caught wind of it, and they immediately sent a CnD order to this friend of mine.

BTW, here is some info about Square on this matter.

http://na.square-enix.com/us/documents/materialusagepolicy

Though it probably wouldn't help you because you're trying to do a KH fan game and that page listed KH as one of those games where the listed rules don't apply and actions will be determined by their Japan Office.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Posts

Latest Profile Posts

Don't forget, aspiring writers: Personality isn't what your characters do, it is WHY they do it.
Hello! I would like to know if there are any pluggings or any way to customize how battles look?
I was thinking that when you start the battle for it to appear the eyes of your characters and opponents sorta like Ace Attorney.
Sadly I don't know how that would be possible so I would be needing help! If you can help me in any way I would really apreciate it!
The biggest debate we need to complete on which is better, Waffles or Pancakes?
rux
How is it going? :D
Day 9 of giveaways! 8 prizes today :D

Forum statistics

Threads
106,047
Messages
1,018,539
Members
137,834
Latest member
EverNoir
Top