I want to talk about plugin CONFLICTS!

RyanYe

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I have created a game demo during the Labour day vacation:
demo youtube link

I have spent over 30% time on dealing with plugin conflicts.
Am i the only one who want to make suggestion to the officials that how to solve this problem once and for all?
so here comes my suggestion:
1, Officials spend some time on checking the most widely used plugins about their conflicts with each other and list them in order to save the time on checking.
2, The game please do not crash/freeze at ANY circumstances regardless how the plugin is written. for example, if i write GALV.xxxx in the script calls, please do not crash, just give me a warning level pop ups "Galv is not defined"
3, Alternatively, give the devs a place to report conflicts and collect all the reported conflicts in ONE place, like as following:
plugin_A: conflicted with plugin_B and plugin_C, game will crash. conflicted with plugin_D, plugin_A will have no effect. plugin order sensitive with plugin_E, should be above or below....
4, HELP the plugin creator to fix the conflicts.

All my suggestions are based on one purpose only: to let more dev spend less time on dealing with the conflicts.
what do you say?
 
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Andar

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nice dreams, but unfortunately completely unrealistic.

no one wants to cause problems, but the work you propose is simply too much for any hundred programmers to handle.

just do the math: to simply test for a conflict between any two plugins means you have to make tests of quadruple the number of plugins, and that multiplies again in case of three plugins involved.
there are hundreds of plugins out there - for example if you list 300 plugins, then there are 90000 possible combinations of two plugins of that list, 27.000.000 possible combinations of three plugins and so on.
simply testing every combination to list possible conflicts will never work.
 

RyanYe

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nice dreams, but unfortunately completely unrealistic.

no one wants to cause problems, but the work you propose is simply too much for any hundred programmers to handle.

just do the math: to simply test for a conflict between any two plugins means you have to make tests of quadruple the number of plugins, and that multiplies again in case of three plugins involved.
there are hundreds of plugins out there - for example if you list 300 plugins, then there are 90000 possible combinations of two plugins of that list, 27.000.000 possible combinations of three plugins and so on.
simply testing every combination to list possible conflicts will never work.
good math
so perhaps we can build up a place to list all the existed known conflicts?
 

TheouAegis

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That's why some people chose the short way, to pay a programmer so that he will solve your problem in few days. Much better compare to spend so many of yours precious time into solve the plugins conflict yourself, right?
 

Drakkonis

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I feel most plugin conflicts would be a result of either:
1: Bad plugin code. Stuff like not aliasing functions they don't need to completely replace, using a global variable when they don't need one, using a global variable with a generic name that another plugin might use, etc.
2: Two (or more) plugins that are trying to do the same thing and causing problems for whatever reason.

The first can be fixed by educating the plugin dev(s) in question. Could simply be newbie mistakes.
The second would likely require a compatibility patch in one plugin to accommodate the others... and that requires contacting one or all devs in question, and requires that they care enough or have the time to mess with it. Or simply don't try to use two plugins to do the same thing, depending on what ALL the plugins in question are trying to do.

Either that, or attempt to modify the plugins to work the way you need them to, if they're not obfuscated. Requires being handy with code though.
 

TheoAllen

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we can build up a place to list all the existed known conflicts?
You can start one by making a blog or something. And start to contribute.
 

Shaz

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@RyanYe please change the coloured text in those two locations in your first post to something other than red (or blue). Those colours are reserved for mods and admins only. Thanks.

On the subject of your post ...

Even good coders can make plugins that are incompatible, even though there is nothing wrong with their individual plugins.

Let's take XP for example - the engine with the most cumbersome core scripts.

I want to add a new menu option for a journal. So I write my script and I override the method that builds the menu and the one that processes the menu option. Someone else wants to add a new menu option for a crafting system. So they write their script and they override the method that builds the menu and the one that processes the menu option. Because of the way the core script is written, these just can't be aliased. The only option for the person who wants to use both scripts is to add them both, and get someone to write a compatibility patch specifically to make those work together.

As a programmer who is reasonably good at making scripts and plugins, I can state with no hesitation that there is no amount of money that someone could offer me to do your #1 and #2 suggestions. It would be the most awful, soul-draining programming task I could possibly imagine.
 

TheoAllen

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Actually, the second request can be as easy as putting script call in try-catch just like how they do it in the damage formula (when the formula fails, it just throws zero), however, doing so would be extremely unhelpful because you don't know what is wrong. It just stop working.
 

ShadowDragon

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sometimes alias a function wont work if you need to rewrite a function,
if another aliased, it should be below or above yours.

the idea is nice, but it is impossible, you can hold on the category list
YEP and CGMV holds, for a reference, when combine, place the plugin
with that function inside those category and not elsewhere.

untill now, it works perfectly fine on my end, but for example,
my Menu Customizer plugin wont work with YEP_ItemCore, because
it is not built to work like that.

it has function that make ItemCore not needed, but if you want to use
YEP_..... that require YEP_ItemCore, than you have a problem :)
 

ATT_Turan

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No offense, but this thread just shows a general lack of understanding about how things work.
I have created a game demo during the Labour day vacation:
demo youtube link

I have spent over 30% time on dealing with plugin conflicts.
Granted, I do not know what plugins you're using, but that seems tremendous to me. I've been working on my main project for a few years, and I have a pretty sizable list of plugins, and I have only ever had one conflict that I had to troubleshoot. My initial thoughts are that you're likely throwing too many plugins in, or installing them without thoroughly reading the instructions on how and where to place them.
Am i the only one who want to make suggestion to the officials that how to solve this problem once and for all?
so here comes my suggestion:
1, Officials spend some time on checking the most widely used plugins about their conflicts with each other and list them in order to save the time on checking.
Your use of the word "officials" is weird - to whom are you referring? If you mean Degica employees, they have nothing to do with the creation of user-made plugins. If you wanted that to be a part of their job, you would have to pay more for RPG Maker or add a subscription or something.
2, The game please do not crash/freeze at ANY circumstances regardless how the plugin is written. for example, if i write GALV.xxxx in the script calls, please do not crash, just give me a warning level pop ups "Galv is not defined"
This is not how computer programming works. It also doesn't make any logical sense...if programmers could simply make programs never crash or freeze under ANY circumstances, don't you think everything would be written that way? And no software in the world would ever crash or freeze? Oy...
 

Trihan

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The problem with asking for a centralised location for all problems to be logged is that someone has to *do* that work, and plugin programmers are individual entities who rarely collaborate. If you want a site that lists those problems, nobody is stopping you from making or commissioning one.
 

Kyuukon

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Yeah. Like some said above. In this case it's easier to just "patch" a compatibility problem on the go rather than do X checks whenever you want to write a new plugin/function.
 

CraneSoft

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Unfortunately, like others said, although the OP simply wants a way for less-experienced devs to be aware of conflicting plugins, this is borderline impossible simply because of the following reasons:

No one is responsible for plugins/conflict issues outside their own project, and individual developers have no obligation to disclose conflict issues that likely only applies to them and no one else.

As a dev, you don't care about other dev's conflict issues, and certainly no other dev cares about your conflict issues either. Now ask yourself, can you expect them to all go to one place, report their findings, and then have someone manage those findings in a readable, searchable format without any monetary gain? You pretty much get your answer there. You can make a website that lists the problems, just keep in mind that it will not benefit YOU, or any of the people that decide to contribute out of goodwill.

TLDR: There is no free lunch in this world, it is the dev's responsibility to simply hire a competent programmer (The ultimate solution for all their problems) if they think they are spending too much time fixing their own conflict issues.
 
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siguren

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Reducing contention also benefits plugin authors.
Resolving conflicts can be a daunting task.

It's ideal, but it requires trust and respect between plugin authors.
I would be willing to cooperate if other plugin authors have asked me to help resolve the conflict.

It's possible if we can create something like an alliance that works together to avoid conflict.
If anyone agrees with this idea and wants to cooperate, please let me know.
I think it could work if there are at least three plugin authors who agree with this idea.
 

Shaz

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Most plugin authors will help you resolve conflicts with their own plugins to a certain extent. And most plugin authors try to make their plugins in a way that minimizes the likelihood of conflicts. But I doubt you'd find many (any?) who would want to spend their time looking after other people's plugin conflicts that have nothing to do with their own plugins. That is when you go to the forum and ask for help. People might be willing to help with a "I have a problem with these 3 plugins". But not with "find every plugin that exists out there and put in your own time to test every possible combination of plugins and every bit of functionality they provide to see if there are any conflicts".
 

Thefirelion

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To keep it short: All or most plugins / scripts (in the case of Ruby) will always or almost always conflict because it is humanly impossible for 100℅ of the writers to come together and agree on how they should write their next.
In addition, plugins / scripts writters will always make their codes in their own way and to the extent of their knowledge, they can be advised, however, someone with greater knowledge will always can contribute to advise you to improve your code, to optimize it or to tell you that something is not necessary do or should be done.
 
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Bandito

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3, Alternatively, give the devs a place to report conflicts and collect all the reported conflicts in ONE place, like as following:
plugin_A: conflicted with plugin_B and plugin_C, game will crash. conflicted with plugin_D, plugin_A will have no effect. plugin order sensitive with plugin_E, should be above or below....
4, HELP the plugin creator to fix the conflicts.

All my suggestions are based on one purpose only: to let more dev spend less time on dealing with the conflicts.
what do you say?
For 3 and 4 I would just use websites like GitHub since anyone can use for free, and it is easy to use too (If you don't want to use the terminal, just drag and drop). For a non-plugin creator they can just make an account and easily report the issues, which the author of the plugin can keep track of.
 

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