i want to use VE and YEP at the same time... Any ideas?

[Mega Man Volnutt]

Victor's Engine and YEP does not like each other (And I understand that) but is there a way to keep both of them together? I wanna use "Tech Points" by VE and Battle Advantage by him as well while still having most of YEP's scripts implemented. 

 

[deathsia]

Perhaps you can ask one of them to make a compatibility patch?

 

[Shaz]

Because they are two "engines" they are going to be doing a lot of overlapping, and there are a lot of opportunities for conflict.  I'm not sure if Victor has designed his MV plugins based on the Ace scripts, but they had a reputation for having compatibility issues.


If you want the majority of YEP with only a few of Victor's plugins, I think the best way to go would be to get someone to remove the dependence on his engine from those two plugins.  This is likely to be a decent sized task, so it might be a while before you get any takers.  If you REALLY want/need it and you don't get a response within a week or so, you might consider commissioning (paying) someone to do it.

 

[Mega Man Volnutt]

Hmm, maybe I'll ask Victor. He seems to be more active than Yanfly if I'm correct. 

 

[deathsia]

I also use victor's plugins but I'm cautious as to which ones I use and I ALWAYS place them below yanfly's.


Also yanfly is busting out ALOT of plugins that do many of the things other plugins already do.


Of course Yanfly can't think of EVERYTHING and there are other plugins I use along with his. The key is knowing or at the very least making an educated guess which ones will conflict and which ones won't.

 

[Victor Sant]

"VE" and "YEP" are too board. It's kinda hard to test each of my 30+ plugins with each of the 70+ plugins (and for a proper test each of them need to be tested individually, just jamming 70+ plugins together is not the best way to debug things...)


If you can find out wich plugins exaclty are conflicting with each other, I can take a look to see what can be done.


But throwing 70+ plugins on me and hoping that I will test each of them is kinda unrealistic.

 I'm not sure if Victor has designed his MV plugins based on the Ace scripts, but they had a reputation for having compatibility issues.

Every time i see this, I can't stop thinking about how baseless rumors can become "alive"...


This reputation was totally baseless. Other than the animated battle vs. yanfly battle engine ace (because you know, using two battle engines together will never work, unless they were bult for that) there were no "incompatibility with engines". Yes there were case where a specific script was incompatible with another, but those were a case by case. Any script/plugin can be incompatible with others that changes the same things.

I think the best way to go would be to get someone to remove the dependence on his engine from those two plugins.

We are at 2016, and people still think that the Basic Module still have anything to do with the compatibility?


The 'engine' don't cause any compatibility issues by itself, hell, it only alias two functions (and I have bad news for you, if your plugin is incompatible because of this, your plugin is also incompatible with YEP, because this change is very similar to the ones Yanfly made on his plugins)


All the other part of the code are original code and most of them are under my namespace.


Most of people just see one or two plugins not working together and spread "All victor's plugins have bad compatibility".


So please people, if you don't know what you are talking about, stop spreading this nonsense rumors about "the victor's plugins have compatibility issues". If there is a incompatibility, it's a case by case, and this happens with every single plugin developer. Thank you!

 

[deathsia]

"VE" and "YEP" are too board. It's kinda hard to test each of my 30+ plugins with each of the 70+ plugins (and for a proper test each of them need to be tested individually, just jamming 70+ plugins together is not the best way to debug things...)


If you can find out wich plugins exaclty are conflicting with each other, I can take a look to see what can be done.


But throwing 70+ plugins on me and hoping that I will test each of them is kinda unrealistic.


Every time i see this, I can't stop thinking about how baseless rumors can become "true" when spread...


This reputation was totally baseless. Other than the animated battle vs. yanfly battle engine ace there were no "incompatibility with engines". Yes there were case where a specific script was incompatible with another, but those were a case by case. Any script/plugin can be incompatible with others that changes the same things.


We are at 2016, and people still think that the Basic Module still have anything to do with the compatibility?


The 'engine' don't cause any compatibility issues by itself, hell, it only alias two functions (and I have bad news for you, if your plugin is incompatible because of this, your plugin is also incompatible with YEP, because this change is very similar to the ones Yanfly made on his plugins)


All the other part of the code are original code and most of them are under my namespace.


Most of people just see one or two plugins not working together and spread "All victor's plugins have bad compatibility".


So please people, if you don't know what you are talking about, stop spreading this nonsense rumors about "the victor's plugins have compatibility issues". If there is a incompatibility, it's a case by case, and this happens with every single plugin developer. Thank you!

I used your scripts in Ace with Yanfly's all the time and saw very few compatibility issues Victor.


The only ones that seemed to throw a fuss are as you said the animated battle vs. yanfly battle engine ace situation.


I have yet to see a conflict in MV with the plugins I'm using of yours along with Yanfly's.


Hell, I think given javascript's versatility as I've seen, I think conflicts will be even less often even if two plugins overwrite the same method but I could be wrong.

 

[Shaz]

I'm only repeating what I've seen & heard many times


I didn't say anything about compatibility of basic module.  I assumed that it would be required for most of your scripts, so if a script is going to be taken out of your engine and merged with another engine, someone would need to see what dependencies on your engine it has, and make sure those things still function after separating it from your engine.

 

[deathsia]

Well the one thing you may not know Shaz is that Victor and Yanfly's scripts did similar things but each offered unique features that creators wanted both of in their games.


For example:


In Ace: Victor's animated battler's plugin offered a much larger variety of and higher quality frames for battler SV sprites but Yanfly's system offered the ability to create complex and often awesome skill sequences. The problem was that these two scripts overwrote similar methods so users wanting their HD combat sprites AND the ability to use complex skill sequences would often ask for compatibility patches.

 

[Victor Sant]

I'm only repeating what I've seen & heard many times

I know, but you shouldn't repeat things if you don't know if they are true by yourself.


This is why those stories become so alive. 

 

[Shaz]

there wouldn't be so many requests for compatibility fixes if there weren't some element of truth to it

 

[deathsia]

there wouldn't be so many requests for compatibility fixes if there weren't some element of truth to it

(Edited due to me stepping out of line as a normal user)


Just let it go for peats sake...>.>

 

[Shiroi Akuma]

I use both of them without any problems. D:

The first questions would be, which plugins exactly are you using and what's your plugin load order? 

 

[Victor Sant]

there wouldn't be so many requests for compatibility fixes if there weren't some element of truth to it

But there are "so many request" people just claim that. From the MV plugins, I had about 4 compatibilit, and none of them "caused by the engine". They were cause by specific plugins, like happens with everyone (different from this "special case of incompatibility" as you and many others tries to paint).


Again: There are specific plugins that are incompatible with other specific plugins (wich happens all the time, with everyone). Not a "VE is incompatible with YEP" or "VE have reputation for having compatibility issues".


So again... please, don't spread rumors about what you don't know of. You can keep your speculations to yourself. Thank You.

 

[Shaz]

I'm talking about issues with Ace scripts, which is why I said I didn't know whether you'd based your MV scripts on the Ace ones or redesigned them.

 

[Victor Sant]

I'm talking about issues with Ace scripts, which is why I said I didn't know whether you'd based your MV scripts on the Ace ones or redesigned them.

They are totally based on my VXa scripts (most of them were straight up conversion). And even on VXa there weren't as half of the issues people claims (other than several people complaing about the same issues)


But you as a staff member should be a little more careful with what you say.


As a staff member your word have more weight, and people assume them as truth, even when they don't are.


My reputation is already bad enough for a staff member of the forum to harm it more spreading something that is not true.


For the topic. One thing that @Shiroi Akuma mentioned is relevant: The order of the plugins. Generally speaking you should place my plugins bellow the YF core ones. Why? Because the core overwrites some functions, specially the battle related ones. But if there is some issues, change their order. Sometimes this solve the issue.

 

[deathsia]

They are totally based on my VXa scripts (most of them were straight up conversion). And even on VXa there weren't as half of the issues people claims (other than several people complaining about the same issues)


But you as a staff member should be a little more careful with what you say.


As a staff member your word have more weight, and people assume them as truth, even when they don't are.


My reputation is already bad enough for a staff member of the forum to harm it more spreading something that is not true.

Okay this boarders on denial...>.>


I stood up for you at first victor but come on, yes your scripts didn't conflict as badly or as often as some may think but they DID conflict. I however don't think this is your fault. Your script design was merely similar to Yanfly's and you both overwrote the same methods, even with my limited scripting knowledge, I know this leads to conflicts.


Many of the issues could have been solved by your providing a compatibility patch for your most popular scripts that were most often requested to be used in combination with Yanfly's but you disappeared without a trace.


Hell, I wasn't even aware you were making MV plugins until I checked the MV master script list.

 

[Victor Sant]

I stood up for you at first victor but come on, yes your scripts didn't conflict as badly or as often as some may think but they DID conflict. I however don't think this is your fault. Your script design was merely similar to Yanfly's and you both overwrote the same methods, even with my limited scripting knowledge, I know this leads to conflicts.

This happens all the time. For example YF scripts also conflict with many others scripts (sometimes more than mine), but no one claims that it has 'compatibility issues', why? Because people assumes that the YF scripts are the default ones, and the fault of the issue is on the other script.


Most of the issues of the issues that people claim are based around the Animated battle and YF battle engine core. It's a two way road. BOTH of them don't works together, but then MY script is the one with issues? And worse, because of that ALL MY ENGINE have bad compatibility?


Like I said, isolated cases of incompatibility exist. but this "All Victor scripts have reputation for having compatibility issues" is just a lie.


Something that could be true is "VE Animated Battle have compatibility issues with YEA battle scripts", this is true, now generalizing all my script to have issues with scripts made by everyone eles?

Many of the issues could have been solved by your providing a compatibility patch for your most popular scripts that were most often requested to be used in combination with Yanfly's but you disappeared without a trace.

For that i will quote Yanfly himself:

NOTE: I'll only provide support for my own plugins and code that I, myself, have provided. This isn't because I disrespect other plugin makers or anything of the sort. If I did, I wouldn't go so far as to maximize compatibility with my plugins when possible. The reason behind is because of my lack of time, and I'd like to put my undivided attention to errors caused by my own plugins.

Also i DID have a patch for YF plugins at the begining, but some of updates of the YF engine rendered those patches useless (just check the demonstration video of the VE Animated Battle, and you will see that it using the YEA battle engine). Sorry but I won't keep track of someone else script updates to have to update the patch.


But yes, it is probably MY fault, and fault of MY scripts for all those incompatibilities.

 

[deathsia]

Well the best step to take imo then would be to create stand alone versions of your plugins.


Basically a version of the script that offers similar features to the original but requiring advanced coding knowledge due to the open compatibility of being standalone.


I won't pretend to know how coding works to a professional degree but.


For a metaphorical example:


Your stand alone version of "Battle advantage" would require the user to edit the core JS files of the game's engine and add supplemental lines of code so it works in the background along with yanfly's. Sure, this isn't very "user friendly" but at the very least it provides the option to still use your plugins with yanfly's where conflicts arise.

 

[Iavra]

"Stand Alone" is easier said than done. As soon as you need to modify an existing function (which is basically everything apart from creating an entirely new scene), you risk incompatibilities with other plugins. You can try to be only as intrusive, as you need to be, but even then there are certain scenarios that can't work or only work, if plugins are placed in a specific order.


Also, you can't expect other plugins to do the same. Example: Yanfly tends to flood existing prototypes with new functions, that are in no way made unique by prepending an id or something. For a new plugin, it's basically impossible to know the names of all functions introduced by 70+ plugins, so you either risk to overwrite them (or have them overwrite yours) or write your plugin in a different way.


/edit: Suggesting to edit the core files is something i would NEVER do. Removing or deactivating a plugin should remove all of its traces (for new savefiles, since sometimes you need to store information) and base changes easily get forgotten.