If an intruder came into your home

Discussion in 'General Lounge' started by Fira, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    So what do u use for defensive countermeasure? U got any family? and why not shoot at the intruder if u have no alternative weapon of access? if ur afraid of killing the intruder then why not fire at his arms, legs or any area that would eliminate the immediate threat to u or ur family if ur afraid of taking a life of another. U gotta have something though man. Cuz in todays society, if u aint packin then u better know some sort of CQC and even if u do and if u have a family, ud be putting them in great danger my friend @_@

    Poor guy got killed on duty!!!!

    What was he watching? lol
     
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  2. Alexander Amnell

    Alexander Amnell Jaded Optimist Veteran

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        You shouldn't have a gun kept at your bedside, I'd be very wary around anyone who thought of that as personal safety. That's why gun safes and pistol lock-boxes exist, I sleep with a single key on a glow in the dark lanyard at my headboard. At the cry for alarm that at least one of my dogs would choose to let out if a stranger approached in the middle of the night I could be across the room and into the safe in a matter of seconds.  the type of person who tries to anticipate danger to the degree that they expect to have to be able to arm themselves and act before a keyed safe can be open shouldn't even consider owning a firearm in my opinion. Overeager punks like that are the main causes of accidental gun violence, either because they are to keyed up to think straight or because their paranoid assurance with the firearm leads to laziness which lead to unfortunate, inexcusable accidents.
     
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  3. hian

    hian Biggest Boss Veteran

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    The irony though, is that statistically speaking, gun owners are more likely to be killed in home intrusions than non-gun owners.


    What people don't seem to consider is that most intruders are not in your house to kill you - they are there to steal your


    valuables. However, if they start thinking they aren't going to be able to do that and get away with it, many of them will ramp


    up the amount of force they're willing to do to avoid consequences (especially in places like the U.S in states with


    three-strikes rules).


    If somebody comes into your house, and you just sleep on, they're likely to leave once they have what they came for -


    However, if you alert them you might very well have an encounter on your hand, and that encounter might just as well


    end in your death as in the death of the intruder.


    While I generally don't like 4chan logic, the statement "trying is the first step to failing" rings true in this scenario,


    because failure is a true option even with a gun, and it's much easier to avoid by simply not trying in the first place.


    What's more important to you? Your things, which you can have insured? Or your life?


    Fact of the matter - you don't know who's in your house if you hear something. It could be one unarmed hungry hobo, or


    it could be 2-3 guys in a burglary ring armed with anything from 9mms to crowbars.


    You take out your pistol, and start going down the stairs.


    Maybe you shoot one of them, and then another of them shoots or hits you in the back. Now they're in a frenzy and looking


    to get rid of witnesses before leaving your place so they kill your family too as insurance.


    Now, is this a likely scenario? Not very. However, every burglary is a Schrödinger's death-trap waiting to happen,


    and it's more likely to happen if you take out your gun thinking to play the hero of the day.


    Just saying - and I'm "just saying it" as a person who's worked in the private security sector, as among other things,


    a body-guard (I'm willing to put up credentials if you find that hard to believe given the forum we're on).
     
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  4. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    So u would rather let the burglars get away and do nothing? Lucky if u dont get assaulted in the way then ur luck is pretty darn good. However, ud rather let the burglar get away with ur property and let that idiot break into more homes when u could have prevented it and prevented other ppls home being burglarized? Man, ur one of the reason why the world is today and why crime rate is high and will never stop!!! Thats not an opinion thats a fact sir XD

    EDIT:

    Also, take note that burglarizing ppls home is not just only for stealing. Theres tons of other reasons as well, murder, "RAPE" which happens alot everywhere, destroy property, to assault, and tons more that i havent thought of. But anyhow, yeah, just sit there and get assaulted while they take ur stuff and let that doood come back for more when u buy some more new stuff! U might as well askk him where he lives so u can visit the dood when u get paid and hand him ur paycheck along as bending over and give him the lube. It would save u a new window everytime he visits /salute O_O
     
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  5. Ms Littlefish

    Ms Littlefish Dangerously Caffeinated Global Mod

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    I'm perfectly cool with gun ownership and the law being on the side of the home owner to protect their home; however, when you're in that situation it's true that you don't know if it's one guy or three guys. I'd rather lose my TV and my PS4 than my life. Crime rates are extremely complex issues that go way, way deeper than the effectiveness of law enforcement or the right to bear arms. Trust me. I live in Detroit. Shooting and killing robbers will not stop robbery.
     
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  6. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    Well, if u dont stop crimes what would happen logically? does it get bigger or does it get smaller? Hmmm, I dunno Jim but I sure know that 1+1 = 2 XD
     
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  7. Ms Littlefish

    Ms Littlefish Dangerously Caffeinated Global Mod

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    Preventing the amount of crime that happens is a systematic issue of

    • poverty
    • broken homes
    • education
    • rehabilitation of first offenders
    • unemployment
    Shooting one criminal only stops that crime and never prevented it (it still happened), which is what anyone should actually care about. Also, your comment about rape and murder. The vast majority of those crimes do not happen during home invasions; they are majorly committed by people who know you and have access to you already.
     
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  8. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    U watch CNN? Well, apparently u dont. Hope u educate urself on that.

    On the other note, if the mayor of ur city decided to implement death penalties for robberies what do u think will happen to robbery? does it increase?
     
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  9. Scythuz

    Scythuz Explorer Bot *beep beep* Restaff

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    There's a massive difference between what the media shows and what actually happens in real life.
     
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  10. Goldstorm

    Goldstorm ᕕ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ᕗ Veteran

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    CNN is probably the worst place to get facts. They over exaggerate 99% of the news they report.
     
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  11. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    When I was in my teens, a group of people broke into my house while only me and one of my friends were home. They weren't looking to rob us, they were looking for my brother (long story, my brother wasn't involved in anything illegal, these guys were just a bit crazy). Had they found my brother, I'm not sure what they would have actually done to him.

    So to set the stage, it was Halloween night, and I was in one of the front two parlors of my parents house (I grew up in a large plantation house, so yeah, multiple parlors), talking to my friend about something, can't remember what. We had the lights off in the front of the house to discourage trick or treaters, since we had no candy to give out. I look into the other parlor to see two dudes in black robes and black masks, holding pistols.

    At any rate, apparently at that age, I was a bit too angry at someone jumping me in my own house to feel scared. When the first guy tackled me, I heard the "gun" he was holding hit the floor and it sounded like hollow plastic. The way he moved his hand with it, it was way too light to be real. My friend ran out the door and to the gas station nearby to call the cops, I on the other hand was stuck with one guy pinning me down, and another trying to get duct tape out to bind my feet.

    Being as that I was an angry little sheep as a teenager, and not the wise eagle I am today, when the guy holding me said "we'll let you go if you just stay sitting and stay quiet" I told them that they shouldn't let me go. When asked why I responded "Because if you let me go I'm going to kill you." After asking how I would do that, and my response of "let me go and we'll find out" they decided that the duct tape was the best option.

    I pulled my feet in to form a ball when the second guy grabbed my legs, and then extended them back out again as hard as I could, the kick knocked guy #2 over an end table with a marble chess set on it. I'm sure it must have not felt too good. It also jarred the guy holding me and he let go. I picked up a metal gallon paint can by the handle and swung it at guy #1's head and made pretty good contact.

    At this point, they noticed that my friend was gone, and ran out the front door before the police could arrive.

    About ten minutes later, my brother arrived to find me sitting on the front porch with a shotgun in my hand. Then the police arrived, and told me my friend was ok (I hadn't seen what happened to him, I was rather worried but couldn't leave the house alone in case they came back and my brother had gotten home).

    Today... I don't know what I would do. I know that I have a family now, a wife and kids, and I would do anything I could to protect them.
     
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  12. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    Yes ur right and I agree with u. Ive been through cases where media refused to air because complainants refused to be on the media. Theres millions of things that werent aired cuz victims chose not to show it. Millions of things that happens in a day as far as crimes goes and maybe only a fraction or less are shown. That is a fact! XD

    EDIT:

    Burglarizing to commit an assault. Now if ur brother was there. I hope u aint gonna let them shoot the poor guy defenseless. Other than that, if someone was to break into my home, and at the time of entry, I see his face and its noone that I know, his gonna get shot! There! I prevented whatever crime he was after. I may not know what it is but I may have just prevented my next door neighbor or the next victim from being raped, killed, robbed, assaulted, property damaged, or any other related crime from happening. Cuz once a criminal, always a criminal and its always best to stick to this theory that to risk urself and ur fellow community to believe otherwise. Thats my point. I aint standing there while 1 or how many ever is committing a crime. Sorry fellaz, aint happening here. case closed! XD
     
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  13. hian

    hian Biggest Boss Veteran

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    It's not my job to stop burglars - that's the work of law enforcement.


    If, statistically speaking, attempting to stop a burglar increases my chance of getting hurt,


    then not doing anything is preferable if I stack my life up against my property.


    My life is more important than my property.


    You're running on the unfounded assumption that attempting to do something about it won't backfire


    on you - and you're advocating taking that risk because you might lose property, despite the fact that


    any loss of property can more than likely be fixed down the line if you're still alive or unhurt whilst


    the same cannot be said if you enter into a physical altercation and get killed or permanently handicapped as a result.

    No you're not. Most home-invasions are not carried out by people looking to harm you.


    The vast majority of people entering your home uninvited are looking to get your valuables and leave


    undetected.


    The only place where your logic would make any sense is if the person entering your home is entering it


    with the express intent to harm you. These are however, statistically speaking, extremely unlikely events -


    furthermore engaging with such an individual should still be a last option that you go to when all other options


    have been exhausted (such as evasion or evacuation) because the only way you're going to get hurt to begin with


    is if you actually engage. You cannot get hurt in a fight you're not having, and every fight you do have includes


    the possibility of loss.

    If that's what I have to do to ensure my own safety - yes, why not? I can replace my property, I cannot replace my life.

    Ifs and buts - You don't know that you could have prevented it. The only thing I know is that I could try.


    Furthermore, this is a false dichotomy.


    Not putting up a fight the exact time and place when I am in the vicinity of a potentially dangerous individual


    is not the same as not doing anything at all.


    I can contact law enforcement, I can provide them with information that may lead to the apprehension of the


    perp later down the line.


    It is however not my duty to put my life on the line for other people who may or may not get hurt down the line,


    and I recent that way of thinking.


    My life is my own, as is yours. I am not a slave to the collective well-being of society, and my primary charge is


    my own health and well-being and that of the people close to me whom I care about.

    Nope. Crime is produced by social factors like poverty, neglect/abuse, and mental health issues - not by


    me, or anyone else for that matter, not wanting to play the yahoo and put our lives on the line for


    replace-able material things doing something that we already pay others to do, who do it willingly


    understanding the consequences and having both the training and legal privileges to deal with the issue (I.E law enforcement).

    No it isn't, and if you think it is, it just goes to show how little grasp you have of the concept of facts,


    and the issue we're now discussing, "sir".

    Note, if you actually read my post, you would know I didn't say this. I said that the vast majority of the times


    home invasion is predominately motivated by material gain.


    Home invasions done for other reasons such as violence or rape are statistically speaking few and far between in comparison.

    Actually, it happens relatively seldom, unless you live in a third-world country.


    (rape is most commonly committed by people you know and trust, who you willingly spend your


    company with - not home-invaders)


    Home-invasions related to sexual assault are usually committed by people with mental health issues, which


    are only a very small fraction of home-invasions.


    The ones where violence/assault is the primary motivation overlap there, but are usually carried out by criminals


    targeting other people who're involved with criminal activity.


    If you don't want mafia hit-squads, or gang-bangers breaking into your house at night to beat or kill you, not


    borrowing money from mafia, or getting involved in gang-related drug-rings is a good way to go.


    The deranged psycho breaking into your house at night to kill you is so statistically unlikely in almost


    any modern developed country that to buy a gun to protect yourself from it borders on engaging with paranoid delusion.


    This doesn't even go into the fact that these kind of "psychos" rarely pick their victims at random -


    they often stalk their victims for weeks before they take action, leaving threatening phone-calls etc.


    It also doesn't cover the fact that the most unstable of these people are very often entirely incapable of getting


    past general security measures, which means that you can keep them out of your house by simply having a reinforced


    door and windows with shutters (like my apartment for instance).


    These kind of individuals are more likely to attack you in the street, when you commute to and from work, or


    when you're on your way home after having been with friends etc. then to butt heads with your house's security


    and attack you in your own home.

    Anyhow, keep on making facile stories that in no way make an argument trying to belittle the person you're speaking to


    demonstrating your deep lack of education on the topic.


    I'll be sure to put flowers on your grave if you ever get killed in an assault that didn't need to happen


    because you provoked some thugs by overestimating your fighting chances and escalating the level of force


    when you tried to take them down.


    Fun fact - the vast majority of gun deaths in the U.S, of which we know the cause of, happen because of


    scenarios like that. They don't happen as premeditated murders, or in self-defense - they happen because


    paranoid trigger happy morons without a proper appreciation for risk management fire their guns at every


    little shadow they think might harm them, or over perceived aggression that they're hyper-sensitive to because


    they think every other person wants to kill and rape them.


    If you want to talk about people's attitude attributing to a problem - you're a poster boy for that right now,


    especially granted your last paragraph.

    Have you ever looked at actually crime statistics or taken classes in criminology? Didn't think so. I have btw.


    If you put the death penalty on robberies you'd have sheep loads of more deaths on your hands


    because people who rob due to poverty and anti-social behavioral tendencies rob no matter what the laws say,


    and when they know they're going to get the death penalty if caught, they're not going to think


    about the consequences of getting caught anymore.


    They might as well just break into houses armed with UZIs and kill everyone, because the punishment is going


    to be the same in either case - death penalty.


    Not doing this is one of the primary principles informing the creation of new criminal laws, which


    you would know if you weren't completely ignorant on this topic.


    As for the second paragraph - Not only is this factually wrong, it's an extremely socially regressive attitude.


    If it were common, it would actually make issues worse - if people jailed once for a crime


    know that they're going to get stigmatized for life, and never be trusted or viewed as ordinary


    humans again, they have absolutely no incentive what so ever to attempt to reform themselves even


    if that's what they want.


    It also ignores all the crimes a person can get caught for that we might ought to reconsider whether


    to be crimes to begin with.


    By your logic, guys caught for stealing weed and therefore branded as criminals, would find themselves


    on a very short road to worse crime because they wouldn't really have any other reasonable options now would they?


    Once a criminal always a criminal right? How would they get work? When they then turn to theft, you kill them?


    Great society and community right there. Congratulation. If that's how you feel, I'm sure you'd feel right at


    home in Iran.


    Also, you don't get to talk about risk. You think actively putting yourself in harms way on the faint


    possibility of harm is less risk than not doing so, so really man, you have no leg to stand on here.
     
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  14. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    @Hian

    Not gonna argue with ya man and do what u must but if it was meh, ur butt will definitely get shot burglarizing my home for whatever reason AND, im not gonna sit idle and watch u commit whatever u came to do. case closed! XD
     
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  15. hian

    hian Biggest Boss Veteran

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    Statistically speaking, I am in a high-risk group because I actually work in an occupation that means


    I frequently get into contact with both criminals, and mentally unstable people.


    (I wonder how comfortable you'd be sitting unarmed in a tiny van, next to an immigrant from a war-torn


    country - with ticks and bloodshot eyes mind you -


    being sent of for processing and facing deportation after having stabbed several people at the


    asylum where he was being kept)


    However, being a person who's received ample training, and who wears a vest,


    I'm probably still less at risk at work than a yahoo like you are in everyday life due to your ignorance.


    That being said, one place I am not at risk though, is in my own home -


    1.) because I live in Japan, an almost entirely gun-free society,


    2.) I live in a third floor apartment with a reinforced steel door,


    magnetic contact alarm system on all entry points, and heavy shutters for all windows.


    So no, you're once again wrong.


    Good luck with your stand-your-grown/"immah protect mah propertah" attitude though.


    I just hope you don't live with anyone who might end up having to pay the consequences for your idiocy if at some time


    you end up dead on the floor after having tried, and failed, at being a hero - but by all means - push your luck.
     
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  16. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    Really dood really? LoL U and ur cyber warrior failure. wanna speak tough but a wimp in taking action.... booooy, man u must be out of ur mind LMAO XD

    EDIT:

    If I ever become a criminal, i'd sure to rob u first cuz ur just too darrrn easy who sits there like a "adorable person" and not do jack. Man, thats as easy as they come like taking a candy from a baby. In fact, I'd be coming back every weekend and do some more shopping getting 10 finger discounts without hassle XD
     
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  17. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    Ok, chill out. This is ridiculous. Don't be a jerk
     
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  18. The Black Swordsman

    The Black Swordsman Veteran Veteran

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    Ok my bad. I aint saying no more LoL XD

    I just hope this dood gets his mind straight that they will continue to come back sooner or later if u dont take any action on it and that goes for everything. But if he aint getting my point in all of this then thats on him XD
     
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  19. hian

    hian Biggest Boss Veteran

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    I said it once and I'll say it again - You want my credentials, you can have them. Copies


    of my academic record dealing with subjects on criminology, my training credentials, and my


    work accolades/letters of reference.


    It's easy to talk big on the internet, and I'm not the one doing it though.


    Also - if you think showing restraint in a circumstance of potential violence to avoid escalation


    and further damage/collateral is wimpy, then, as another advice to you - you should seek out counseling.


    @any mods reading the thread :


    I'd also like to draw the mods attention to this exchange and the posts of this user


    on this thread in general - as this is a forum frequented by quite few young and


    impressionable people, and the shtick "The Black Swordsman" is selling here


    borders on reckless endangerment.


    The only reason I am still replying is because, as a person who works with crime,


    grew up with crime, I take this kind of discussion seriously. If mods feel that this is going


    out of hand I'll readily accept a ban or warning for not desisting the discussion, though hopefully


    there can be some other solution to the issue.
     
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  20. Alistair

    Alistair Treasure Hunter Veteran

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    Experiencing a burglary is actually one of my biggest fears.

    I read an article about a woman who defended herself from a burglar by using a sword. If I recall right, she trains medieval combat in her free time, thus the weapon.

    What am I as a teacher supposed to use as a weapon? :distrust: I don't think throwing books and pens at a burglar will scare him off.
     
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