If you have nothing nice to say... say nothing at all?

[Alkorri]

I'm curious what everyone thinks about this, so I decided to post this . As the voting opens for IGMC and you leave votes and comments for the games you like, the question arises: do you leave comments/feedback for the games you absolutely hated?

I'm not talking about the games that are simply not your thing because you have fat fingers, or about troll games. I'm talking about the titles you hated for the clumsy controls, the writing, the weak characters.

The question is, do you bother leaving negative feedback on the game/contest thread? Or say nothing at all?

I know game developers are supposed to have thick skin and learn from the feedback, but sometimes I can't help thinking, Come on, this is someone else's blood and sweat you're pissing on here. They worked hard on this. Have a heart.

I suppose you could leave 'constructive feedback', and the onus is on the developer on how they take it. Then again, with hundreds of games submitted, sometimes you just don't have the time!

 

[EternalShadow]

I either say nothing or make a 'sandwich' (good, bad, good) comment.

 

[Merlandese]

Generally speaking, I think I only leave feedback for the games that I liked, even if the feedback is negative-ish. I guess you kind of have to respect a game to some degree to take your time comment about it, merits and flaws alike. That said, a "critique sandwich" is always good. If there's one bad thing you want to point out, I'm sure you can find two good things to place it between.

 

[Dalph]

It's not that hard to give a good critique without being rude or harsh, and it shouldn't make a difference if a game is good or not, every developer deserve an honest critique instead of a fake praise.

Said this I try my best to play everything (good or bad) but time is my enemy, yes.

But let's be honest here, it's obvious that everyone play the good games first...we can't negate this.

EDIT:

PS: Indrah is playing every game of the contest (submitted here) and she gives good critiques to every single one of them.

 

[Alkorri]

Yes, I was thinking of Indrah when I posted this. She makes it a point to even leave positives and negatives for every title she plays, which I like. She didn't have to, but she did.

Time is indeed my enemy 

 

[Indrah]

Depends on the receiver. From what I've experienced some people will take away from the bashing, and some WON'T.

Try to see if they seem reasonable and not the needy/so insecure sort of dev from their post. And if they're acting like entitled whiny hos just skip 'em.

That is onyl if you feel like even giving them feedback. Under other circumstances I've played games I tore apart in streams that I did not feel the makers really should see (because I made fun of em to hell and back :I)

If they are ASKING for the feedback no matter how bad, go ahead. If not...depends.

The sandwitch idea is nice only WHEN YOU HAVE GOOD THINGS TO SAY. I've had to grit my teeth and swallow my standards partially to put at least ONE good thing on some of the bullet points I deliver as feedback for the contest. Not often, but it happened =_=

The only reason I'm doing all of them for the IGMC is becuase I said I'd do 'em. It's a pain in the royal ass I tell you when some games jsut fall under the categories "not my thing" and "just bad".

tl;dr: onyl if you feel the dev will appreciate it and it's a nice sort of dev. Some games let you see the dev0's nature a bit depending on their level of sheer fricks not given. If you feel like you have nothign good to say and you feel/know the dev is an asshat pass on em unless you want to deliver a slap in the face (hey, it's a viable scenario XD)

tl;dr tl;dr I said nothing at all over all that rant. wooo.

 

[Housekeeping]

I probably give more critiques than compliments, but I think that's because the nature of indie games is that they're going to be flawed since the development teams are so small and corners have to be cut.  I make sure to play games until the end, so I give my honest perspective of them, which includes the good and the bad.  It's a little nervewracking to criticize someone's work when you know they put in a lot of time on it and they'll possibly be offended, but you have to be honest with yourself if you want to improve.

 

[Alkorri]

I like the point that you scope out the receiver before you give feedback. It takes experience to judge which kind of devs they are however! ;D

@Housekeeping - I tried playing this particular game to the end, because usually I finish every game. But this one... OI.

 

[TerminusEst13]

The absolute cruelest thing you can do to someone is to let him pursue his dream thinking everything is fine and good when it really isn't.

Play it to the end, be fair, and don't ever involve attacks on the author...but don't hold back on the criticism. Ever.

If something is wrong, let me know if something is wrong. If I made crap, tell me that I made crap and why it's crap. There's no way I'm going to be able to improve if I don't know what's wrong.

 

[whitesphere]

I think a helpful review should include what is good and what needs to improve. The person who helped with my play testing did both.

A lot of criticisms can be honest and tactful. It's all in how the facts are phrased. Not telling what is wrong does not help the developer. But being brutal means your comments won't be heard.

I also give praise when it's deserved. That is only fair to show all sides.

 

[Matseb2611]

The critique has to be honest if the developer is to gain something out of it and to make reasonable improvements. However, it has to be delivered properly. Bashing someone's game is not going to do anyone any good. It only shows you to be rude and the dev will become very defensive of their game as opposed to taking your points on board.

I like to think that giving constructive criticism without being a dick about it is a talent in itself. One thing we have to keep in mind, no matter how angry or annoyed a game made us feel, is that our comment will be read by a real person who has feelings. It doesn't matter that it's the internet, it's still a real person reading our comments, and they tried very hard to make their game, regardless of the standard they achieved with it. If our critique is scathing and mean, it will only discourage the other person, and if anything, they'll be less likely to listen to what you've said.

Another thing to consider is that it is in our nature to concentrate on the negatives, and so it's easy to give feedback that's mostly negative. However, once you really think and look back on the game, there are plenty of positive things that can be said. We just tend to take them for granted and look them over.

 

[Ralpf]

I probably give more critiques than compliments, but I think that's because the nature of indie games is that they're going to be flawed since the development teams are so small and corners have to be cut.  I make sure to play games until the end, so I give my honest perspective of them, which includes the good and the bad.  It's a little nervewracking to criticize someone's work when you know they put in a lot of time on it and they'll possibly be offended, but you have to be honest with yourself if you want to improve.

That's my problem, I have written 3 reviews so far and 2 of them I felt bad writing them, one I even left a disclaimer at the end saying I'm not trying to be mean. I'm trying to be helpful, but there is a fine line between negative critique and bashing in a lot of peoples minds.

 

[Housekeeping]

I like the point that you scope out the receiver before you give feedback. It takes experience to judge which kind of devs they are however! ;D

@Housekeeping - I tried playing this particular game to the end, because usually I finish every game. But this one... OI.

Hey, if something's so bad that you can't possibly finish, then that's definitely worth bringing up to the developer.  Just make sure you clearly articulate what makes the game so difficult to finish and what they can do to fix it.  My post should probably be revised to say, "I make sure to play games until the end unless doing so is causing me emotional stress," haha.  In Arcem Miseria was like that for me, but I should stipulate that the added stress was from my crappy computer causing some glitches.  The good thing about these contest games is that most of them are bite-size, so I've been able to work through a few poorly-designed games.

Edit:

That's my problem, I have written 3 reviews so far and 2 of them I felt bad writing them, one I even left a disclaimer at the end saying I'm not trying to be mean. I'm trying to be helpful, but there is a fine line between negative critique and bashing in a lot of peoples minds.

Don't blame yourself for a developer's immaturity.  Like I said, it's going to be emotionally draining--for both parties involved--but the purpose of this community is to share our games and get better, so don't be afraid to criticize.  If you find someone doesn't accept your criticism reasonably, then you don't have to critique any of their work in the future; it probably won't improve much, anyway, since they're closed off to criticism.

 

[Caitlin]

First, it is all about helping someone improve, not with malice or bitterness and in order to do that, it's all about giving a review. 

GRAPHICS - This would include positives and negatives.  It is more than just saying you don't like something, but giving constructive critisim.

MUSIC/SOUND - Do you like the sounds or music? Does it fit in?

STORY/PLOT/CHARACTERS - What are your feelings? What do you think of the characters?  What do you feel was its strengths or weaknesses?  What do you feel could have been improved?

FUN FACTOR - This is an old area that I feel has been removed, needlessly.  You may or may not have liked the story, or visa versa, but you may or may not have had fun.  This is a good place to talk about your feelings.

You are just giving an opinion that is meant to help people.  So, yes, I would state my views to help.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

I try to make a point to comment on every game on this forum I play, contest or not. I try to look at it from my own eyes. If I've made something to share with people, and it is so crap no one has said anything to me, I'll be left wondering why? Was it bad? What was wrong with it? Were people just not paying attention? Maybe it was okay and I'm just not important?


The key is to say it in a way that can be helpful to them. To not just say 'bluh that was horrible!' tell them what was bad, and give them things to aim to improve on. Like everyone else said, the sandwich of good and bad is usually the nicest way to approach it. Human nature makes us pay more attention and take more stock into the things people say when they are coated with kindness. ;>


The only time I skip out completely on commenting on something, is when I don't think the person will listen to the suggestions. That can be hard to gauge, especially if you are new to leaving feedback, but overtime you'll start to see the signs of a person who cares enough to take a little advice, compared to a person whose ego is bloated so big they don't have time for your petty suggestions, and even then, compared to someone who actually doesn't give a care in the world about what they are doing.

That's my problem, I have written 3 reviews so far and 2 of them I felt bad writing them, one I even left a disclaimer at the end saying I'm not trying to be mean. I'm trying to be helpful, but there is a fine line between negative critique and bashing in a lot of peoples minds.

They've put it on the internet to be judged. As long as you are not calling them trash names, or being unreasonably cruel, you shouldn't feel bad. Everyone who posts something on the internet needs to be ready to take some judgement and evaluation. Thick skinned or not, it's the nature of sharing content with the internet.

 

[Archeia]

They've put it on the internet to be judged. As long as you are not calling them trash names, or being unreasonably cruel, you shouldn't feel bad. Everyone who posts something on the internet needs to be ready to take some judgement and evaluation. Thick skinned or not, it's the nature of sharing content with the internet.

The sad part is when you go to places like DA. Some bash you from behind even when you have tried to be technical and soft about it and even say, your critique is invalid. Thanks for not helping. I don't understand why people put please give me critiques when they actually don't want it. XD

 

[Makio-Kuta]

The sad part is when you go to places like DA. Some bash you from behind even when you have tried to be technical and soft about it and even say, your critique is invalid. Thanks for not helping. I don't understand why people put please give me critiques when they actually don't want it. XD

Yes, I hate when they flat out ask for crits and then moan or bad mouth you when you give them. (DevArt is HORRID for that) That's why it's key to start to pick up on what sort of people you are dealing with. Sometimes you can get a sense of them from the comments they make, sometimes you get it from what level of effort you actually see in their work.


There's things that are rookie level because they are a rookie, and there are things that are sloppy and rookie level because they actually don't care about what they're doing. (usually these people are just posting content to try to gain some quick compliments to boost their self-image and that is why they are the quickest to get mouthy when you don't just pat them on the head and tell them they are wonderful.)

 

[cabfe]

I try to give feedback when I test a game/demo but I can't post if I don't have anything good to say.

I don't like being negative and some games I played were (for me at least) really bad. Like there's nothing you can do for it to be better. I'm sure everyone has seen one of these at least once.

Just writing this I know I may look too hard but I'm not exactly the best public for the typical RPG Maker games.

I wasn't raised with J-RPGs and touched almost none, nor feel attracted to them. I can play them, but actually enjoying them is another thing (although I did like The Last Remnant).

There's no such thing as a universally acclaimed game. So it's better not to criticize a game I'm not the best public for.

But sometimes you find a gold nugget in the mud river. So I don't give up playing and hope to find another one each time.

Generally speaking, when I write a comment I try to balance. It's so easier to point the bad things, I feel bad if I don't say what's good in it too.

Also, even if I already knew that feedback is an important thing for the developper, since I started creating my own game I understand it even more.

Feedback is the only way to know what you did good and where you must work harder.

That's priceless.

 

[Adellie]

I think it's important to let people know if their game really sucks, so they can be realistic.

If i came across a game like that, i'd tell them that their game was very poor overall, (in the case of this contest, that it wasn't up to par); and then narrow in on one thing that's either easiest or most crucial for them to improve on. No need to give a huge list of constructive criticisms, even if it's detailed and informative, it's discouraging and their eyes will probably glaze over.

As for "sandwiching", it's fine if you actually have something to say. Just don't pretend that one thing was good when it was just good relative to other elements of the game. I'd much rather applaud them for effort and sound like an ass. :/

Only say nothing if you're about to spew some personal attack.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

It's pretty rare that there isn't at least one nice thing to say though. Maybe a character told a joke that made you chuckle, or there's an item description that was really well written. Or you liked how they did one tiny thing. I don't think I can think of many games that there was literally NOTHING that made me smile. It doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking - sometimes I think people are trying to hard to comment on things in a grand way. (or maybe I am simply... simple.) So they lose sight of the smaller things that can be commented on.


Still though, I suppose there can be cases where there is absolutely NOTHING good about what you just experienced, and when that happens, that's when you have to take a risk. You can give them constructive feedback, but there is a much higher chance you've just encountered the sort of person who isn't going to put any weight into your comments anyway.


I guess it's a matter of deciding whether or not they are worth your time to give the constructive criticism, because the arrogant ones who don't listen aren't worth it. But there are some sweet little rookies who are more than willing to take what you've said to heart and grow from it.