If you have nothing nice to say... say nothing at all?

xeroborn

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I started out trying to review every game i played. But then i hit a run of games i just didnt like, obnoxious tile hunts, bad platforming, insanely complicated battle systems, that sort of thing and i guess i chose just not to write anything about them. I dont know anything about the games or the people that made them and i just didnt feel like being so negative.
 

Adellie

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It's pretty rare that there isn't at least one nice thing to say though. Maybe a character told a joke that made you chuckle, or there's an item description that was really well written. Or you liked how they did one tiny thing. I don't think I can think of many games that there was literally NOTHING that made me smile. It doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking - sometimes I think people are trying to hard to comment on things in a grand way. (or maybe I am simply... simple.) So they lose sight of the smaller things that can be commented on.
Yeah that makes sense.  :)  I think we often avoid those small things is because we're trying to give an overall picture.
 

Cabygon

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I'd probably see it as if you have something to say, even if it's bad, that means there's some sort of urge/feeling to want to help said game/developer. You cared enough to leave a comment, even if it's scathing critique. I wouldn't say devs should be thick skinned, we're still people after all, and such comments can sting, but it is a growing process and we come out the better for it.

*insert long monologue* read bold for TLDR.

I'm going to just go out on a limb here and make an example out of our game.

If not for some lovely people (you know who you are if you read this, we love you long time.) that posted initially bad reviews (and it was really sweet of them to actually edit their reviews after giving the game another chance on their own configured buttons), I wouldn't have realized that hey dude, no one can see our darn configuration button. (It goes something like this, one person says it, okay maybe they're blind, we'll just tell them where it is. Two people say it, uhh guys, I think we might have a problem? Three people say it. OMG! GAIS WE HAVE A PROBLEM, FIX IT NOW.) Whelp, thanks to that we were able to touch it up if only a little bit just a mere twenty mins before the final submission the other day.

What they said, probably helped solve at least 80% of the complaints about the config, in the sense people have now noticed said button and aren't ripping our heads off for it and are actually enjoying the game. And now in a version that we're working on >_> it's available... EVERYWHERE (instead of just the main and level select menus) in a pause menu that we've finally implemented (yay!). Will have nothing left to say if people don't notice it this time XD.

I must say we've been pretty lucky in terms of the comments left behind for us most for most of the part. Alot of it has been constructive and fired us up (I mean it's even fine when a comment hurls an insult at a feature or something, we just make light of it and go "Oh yeah? We'll fix that. See how you like it now!")  to cut our break short (we had wanted to crash, burn, relax and play for the whole week lol) that we started getting back into the swing of things the day after the submission. I've looked around in other projects and have noticed some haven't been so lucky yet but eventually, as long as they worked hard on it, they're bound to catch someone's eye. It's easy to tell when effort has been put into a project or not, and those are the ones that deserve every bit of critique good or bad so that they can improve/know that someone actually played their game.

Bottom line is, people cared enough to leave critique that can improve your game, that's golden free advise. At least you can tackle the problem now, rather than in an actual fully published finalized release.

The only time I'd say don't comment is when you have personal issues with the developer themselves then that just turns into a personal attack/harassment thing. Deep inside, I would think even if it's a bad remark, I'm sure every developer wants to know, because at least something said is better than silence (then that becomes like an unspoken statement which makes the developer think, is my game really that crappy that no one at all is going to comment?).

The other time I'd say to not leave a comment is when you have the ulterior motive of flashing your own game around. It just makes you look horribly shallow as a person/developer. I've been seeing some people do that in almost every other project page amongst anything that's trending/high on votes, and it's just really really sad. There's even one that leaves a bad/unconstructive/sandwiched 1 liner every. single. time. then flashes their own game. There is a GIANT LIST of games. We know how to find your game if we want to play it. (If you read this, do you honestly think, other developers/fans would want to give a fig about your project when you're going around to every other project and just being the equivalent of a very loud chihuahua(just analogy here, I love dogs) barking look at me, all these others are terrible! Think beyond this competition, with this kind of behavior, just what are you trying to tell people about yourself as a creator?)

However, it's good that they bothered to comment on the project he was advertising on in desperation of hey play my game! But there are other and better ways to do that in a not so annoying manner as opposed to another that went around just linking his game with no comment at all <- this one received more scathing remarks for general a**holery.

Finally, almost every game has it's own golden moments (cause let's face it, there are some made with no ****s given). So while you might have mostly bad to say. I'm quite sure there'd be at least something good to talk about, as people have mentioned above like a joke that made you laugh. It could even be the art if the game itself was terrible. Or the music, or sound effects. There's always something to talk about, unless say it was a pixel. A very magically uninteresting teeny tiny speck of a pixel on a giant canvas which is the player character, there's absolutely nothing to say about the lack of effort there.

End Monologue =X

Edit: Ermergerd. I didn't realize that was sooooo long 0_0
 
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Makio-Kuta

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The other time I'd say to not leave a comment is when you have the ulterior motive of flashing your own game around. It just makes you look horribly shallow as a person/developer. I've been seeing some people do that in almost every other project page amongst anything that's trending/high on votes, and it's just really really sad. There's even one that leaves a bad/unconstructive/sandwiched 1 liner every. single. time. then flashes their own game. (If you read this, do you honestly think, other developers/fans would want to give a fig about your project when you're going around to every other project and just being the equivalent of a very loud chihuahua(just analogy here, I love dogs) barking look at me, all these others are terrible! Think beyond this competition, with this kind of behavior, just what are you trying to tell people about yourself as a creator?)
This times 20million. That is just unclassy to the max.
 

xeroborn

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One other thing i noticed, especially in this contest, is the wide range of genres. There are some, like puzzle games or visual novels, that arent my thing. If i say i dont like it then that doesnt mean i think its inherently bad, its just not my kind of game.
 

DavidGil

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Think this is a good place to say what I've wanted for the past few days, even though it's not directly related to the thread:

Basically, while I think the criticism's fine as long as it's honest and it's not given with the sole thought of tearing someone else down, I think it's best to take into account whether a game has been made by one developer or a team.

While one person can still put out a good project, a team that's organised and such can obviously get more done than one person can.

Not saying people aren't taking it into account, but just saying . . . I must admit it's been one of my fears with the contest itself actually. I don't even know if there's one winner out of the solo devs and one for the teams, which is what would be fair in my mind. Not that I've got a horse in this race anyway, with having no entry.

Granted, I think the contest should have been entered more for the fun of it rather than anything else.
 

Cinnamon

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I think any feedback is useful, as long as it's not simply rude/biased as in "ugh this game sucks everything is so lame". Or when someone (I'm looking at my close friend here) gives overall negative feedback without being able to specify which bit they didn't like. e.g. "The whole delivery is wrong, you're not creating a good atmosphere." "Okay, what do you think we should change? Music? Graphics?" "I don't know but it's just bad. Change it." "Is there anything in specific that stuck out as bad?" "Don't ask me, it's your game!" < my weekly conversation with him/her (#anonymous), haha.
 
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Makio-Kuta

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I think any feedback is useful, as long as it's not simply rude/biased as in "ugh this game sucks everything is so lame". Or when someone (I'm looking at my close friend here) gives overall negative feedback without being able to specify which bit they didn't like. e.g. "The whole delivery is wrong, you're not creating a good atmosphere." "Okay, what do you think we should change? Music? Graphics?" "I don't know but it's just bad. Change it." "Is there anything in specific that stuck out as bad?" "Don't ask me, it's your game!" < my weekly conversation with him/her (#anonymous), haha.
Haha ohh... yes that is frustrating. It's not always easy to peg down exactly what the problem is, but it's a pain when someone makes a habit out of it. "You need to fix this, but I can't tell you what is wrong!" (especially more annoying when you yourself don't see anything wrong with it. "I cannot fix it myself if it is not broken.")
 

Galenmereth

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I think that if you're critiquing someone's work, but you cannot come up with anything constructive to say, then yeah: silence might be better for some people. But it very much depends on the creator(s). I'm from the school of brutally honest criticism--but constructive, if at all possible--like I mentioned in my recent blog post. But I've been honest and given constructive criticism, and then subsequently been burned by it, many times before. People will respond with defenses similar to "you could've just said you don't like it instead of explaining all the things you think I should've done differently", and I know that they misunderstand my intent, but it's not always possible to explain this given the circumstances. It can actually be really taxing on a person to review something and be constructive, which is why I'm always thankful when people write (or record) criticism for my work, no matter how good or bad it is, because I know how much effort and energy is involved :) I'm very conscious about the fact that everything requires time and energy out of people's lives: even criticism that ends up negative is still energy allotted to my work, and the least I can do is take it to heart (whether I agree and want to act on it is a separate thing entirely) and thank them for their time.

This is also why I'm so far behind on writing reviews for a lot of your games: I've not been in the mindset to do it properly yet, and then I'd rather not do it at all until I am  :cutesmile:
 
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Volrath

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I think that if you sincerely want to help someone, that will show through even if most of the feedback you give is critical. But if all you want to do is scold someone for making a game design decision that drove you nuts, that will also show through and it's not any help. The whole "all feedback is useful" thing is a fallacy that's annoyingly persistent in the RM community. Feedback that is so rude/hostile/off-base/arbitrary that it starts a big argument is not useful.

Of course, there are times when you'll give perfectly polite, useful feedback and the designer will still get really defensive. That sucks, but there's not much you can do. Letting that lead into an argument about the nature of giving/accepting criticism is, 9 out of 10 times, not worth it. That's an issue the developer has to work out on their own. Truly good feedback will sink in after a while, even if it hurts to hear at first.
 

Ms Littlefish

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I know there are issues with my game. I knew that before I released it. But hearing feedback from others has brought light to some things I did not think about and while the reiteration can bog me down hearing things from others has already sparked me to think about those things in the future and how to make sure they don't happen again. 

As long as feedback is constructive I can handle it. Negative reviews can be given but that does not mean it has to be rude or worded negtaviely. I've given many negative feed backs but never have I been a negative person (it's simply not in my nature to be mean). Likewise, I don't want people to kiss my ass just to be nice to and not hurt my feelings. All I expect is decency and not being personally insulted. 
 

Stoic

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My approach to criticism is to come at it objectively no matter how overly negative it may seem although I do appreciate it when they at least attempt to point out good things too. I saw one post of Painted Heart that was basically all *****ing about minutia and if I was the dev of that game I'd get a bit frustrated going through it. Usually those "stream of conscious reviews" fall into that problem. Although it is helpful in the sense that they're mostly unfiltered. Usually when a person writes a review they collect their notes and thoughts and then compile it into something that weighs the pros and cons and might gloss over some minor details. That's why I love watching people play my game or a Let's Play because even if they don't say anything I might glean something. Like for "Labyrinthine Dreams" a review might say "The 2nd puzzle in the forest was really hard" but they won't admit that they spent 45-minutes running in circles there.


What was my point again? I guess just keep all feedback in mind even if the person comes off as hater. Neil Strauss mentioned his writing cycle involves writing the first draft for himself, the 2nd draft for his audience and the 3rd draft for the haters. Or basically the people he would think "wouldn't" like his books. Of course you can't please everyone and you should stay true to your vision of your game. But don't just dismiss criticism because it seemed like that person just was going to hate your game from the start. Especially if it's just a small change you can make to cater to more player types.


And if it's a criticism you don't necessarily agree with make note of it. If it keeps coming up you might want to consider that there's something there. Hope that helps.
 

Cinnamon

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Haha ohh... yes that is frustrating. It's not always easy to peg down exactly what the problem is, but it's a pain when someone makes a habit out of it. "You need to fix this, but I can't tell you what is wrong!" (especially more annoying when you yourself don't see anything wrong with it. "I cannot fix it myself if it is not broken.")
Yes, exactly. :p Especially if you can't find anything wrong with it yourself.
 

kartersaint

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The point of my review will be the completely destruction and re-born again of the game as my taste and provide considering suggestion that likely the more people can enjoy the game.  

I only write this critic review to the game that the developer may have potential to change their solid structure. 

Otherwise, or the game has fair feedbacks enough, then I just write a plain review to the game. To prevent some sentimental issue or I'm just lazy. 
 
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mlogan

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I know there are issues with my game. I knew that before I released it. But hearing feedback from others has brought light to some things I did not think about and while the reiteration can bog me down hearing things from others has already sparked me to think about those things in the future and how to make sure they don't happen again. 

As long as feedback is constructive I can handle it. Negative reviews can be given but that does not mean it has to be rude or worded negtaviely. I've given many negative feed backs but never have I been a negative person (it's simply not in my nature to be mean). Likewise, I don't want people to kiss my ass just to be nice to and not hurt my feelings. All I expect is decency and not being personally insulted.
This pretty well sums up my feelings. I've known too many people in my life who have used "I'm honest, it's just the way I am" as an excuse to be a total a$$. Rudeness is a choice and is not the same as honesty.
 

Lunarea

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I've known too many people in my life who have used "I'm honest, it's just the way I am" as an excuse to be a total a$$. Rudeness is a choice and is not the same as honesty.
This.

You can be honest - even brutally honest - and still be tactful and kind with your words. Being honest and being kind are not mutually exclusive. People don't automatically lie if they take the time to phrase their thoughts and feelings in a more gentle way and with thought on how it might be received.

Using "I'm just being honest" or "I'm telling it as it is" as an excuse to metaphorically vomit over someone and their self-esteem is not something to be proud of and it's not something we should encourage in ourselves or in other people. Any time you use honesty as an excuse and blame the listener for "not being able to handle the truth", you're doing a great disservice to yourself and the rest of the people involved in the conversation. What you're really saying is that you don't actually care the slightest bit about the developer/project you critiqued. You just wanted to be right and maybe feel superior in some way. 

Communication is a two-way street. If you want the other person to respect you and listen to you, then do the same thing and phrase your critique in a way that respects the other person and their work. While you are not entirely responsible for how someone will take criticism, this does not mean you have no responsibility whatsoever. You are still responsible for how you present yourself to others, and for how much effort you put into communicating. You're not free to say whatever uncensored thought pops into your head and expect no consequences.

When you post without consideration or care for how the other person is going to take your words, you're wasting a lot of time, both for yourself and for the person reading it. When you make the reader feel defensive because of your critique, they're much less likely to listen to your suggestions (even if it's really valuable advice). And if the interaction sparks an argument, even more time is wasted by everyone that participates in it. You end up with all of this time and effort poured into something that could have been avoided with a few more carefully chosen words.

Posting with consideration also means that you understand when someone is receptive to "tough love" or blunt approach. There are people out there who appreciate this type of approach, and that's awesome. It can be very refreshing to talk to someone based on stream-of-consciousness thoughts and feelings, and without having to temper words. But you really need to go into it with understanding that not everyone is comfortable with this approach. You shouldn't force it on everyone else, much like you shouldn't be forced to never ever be blunt, period.

tl;dr version: Think about other people when you're phrasing your thoughts and feelings. :)
 

Seacliff

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You tell them, then never look at the reply just in case.
 

LoneWolfDon

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Well said. I wish some certain self-appointed critics / reviewers would read and take such advice.

But alas, there will always be some rude inconsiderate "reviewers" who think it's fine to bash and insult someone and their hard work. One can be honest and give criticism without being an a$$ about it.

If someone wants to give me their feedback or constructive-criticism, then that's welcome and appreciated. But if it seems like they're just mainly bashing me and/or a game I've made, their demeanor appears rude, insulting or condescending, then I'll tend to just smile and ignore them anyways. Cheers!
 
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Simon D. Aelsi

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*skipping all the comments and replies.*

This.   You can tell someone their game needs a LOT of work.  You don't have to be a complete rear end in a top hat about it.

When you trash someone and destroy someone and you feel GOOD or PRIDEFUL about it, you seriously need a lot of help. Someone, somewhere out there put their HEARTS AND SOULS into...whatever it is.

Granted, there are the few times where someone DIDN'T try hard.  But YOU don't know that. Maybe they did.  People have to realize that not everyone is the same and you can't expect everyone to take something the same.

That's just the reality of the human race. There are some very sensitive people out there who will take even CONSTRUCTIVE critique to heart. But at least they know you're TRYING to help them.

I've seen people (even here) give COMPLETELY outrageous, rude and just plain mean reviews telling them how much THIS sucks or how bad THAT is... and all I see is a little child *****ing and whining about how they don't like this or that or blah blah blah. All I see is a temper tantrum coming from a three year-old.

If it's bad, TELL THEM WHAT'S BROKEN.  Tell them how to FIX IT. Don't just sit there making fun of them!  You don't know who they are, chances are you don't KNOW them, you don't know what they're going through or what they've been through or what they've had to do to get whatever it is they have to you.  You don't know if they've just lost a family mamber and your "HONEST REVIEW" made it worse. Someone could be contemplating their lives... and your "HONEST REVIEW" may have just helped them sway.  Someone could be cutting themselves because they think your "HONEST REVIEW" is true.

Again, I say, you can tell someone their work needs a lot of work (Even if it DOES suck) without being rude.

Are you changing "who you are" (And if being rude is what makes you you, then you SERIOUSLY need to reconsider your priorities in life.) to please someone? NO. You're showing TACT, DIPLOMACY and RESPECT.  Three admirable qualities in a person that I personally admire more than anything, and three qualities that are quickly becoming extinct.

Oh, and the saying something nice bit isn't just about game rewiews on one site. This applies to LIFE IN GENERAL.  You will go MUCH further in life if you're at least diplomatic and respectful.... than if you're a rude jackass who takes pride in chopping other people down to satisfy your own sorry life.

Do I sound a little pissed off? Yeah.  I am. This is a very touchy and sensitive subject for me. I've been through this at both ends. It's not fun. It's not pretty. You may think of yourself as high and mighty now, but years later it will dawn on you. You may have ruined someone's career because of your "HONEST REVIEW".

Well, that's my two cents.
 
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