ilychron: Second Fate

[SinのAria]

A story of finding lost friends:


Follow several adventurers as they go to save the world and find their lost friends.

This is mostly a text story in a fantasy world with very little actual combat. Includes the First Fate. (Technically, this still part of the first fate, but it is called Second Fate to separate the two parts). You are able to skip the first fate without losing much of the story, though there are some benefits to doing First Fate. This is closer to a visual novel with RPG elements than an RPG with a story.

First Fate is simply included for people who wish to know what happened before Second Fate started and should take most people about 10 to 20 minutes to play. Please do not give feedback on First Fate here.

Second Fate, the actual submission, should take most people about 20 to 30 minutes to play.
 

Basic Notes About Second Fate:


The Second Fate doesn't include as many extras as the "First Fate" game, but instead is an expanded story. This is mostly story with very little RPG element (VERY text heavy). Sadly, this means it does start off a bit slow. (I was going to put it under non-rpg but decided to keep it under the rpg category since it did contain some battles). Again, Second Fate is the actual submission, the First Fate is more of an explanation of what happened.

Total time worked on (in days) including first fate: about 20 days. Total time excluding first fate: about 8 days. Sadly, it took a while to get some clarification on the rules and I ended up having to do some medical stuff so that killed quite a bit of my time.

Note: The tutorial is likely harder than any other battle in the game due it being primarily a manual with a practice using generic characters after.

I also had a few self-imposed rules to see how far I could push the program without adjustments:

• No scripts outside of the defaults that are created when a new project is started. Minor edits are allowed.
•  
• No non-dlc items that I didn't make myself
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• No self switch that remains onAny self switch must be turned off either before leaving the map or must be set up to handle a new game+ system (I didn't include the new game+ system because I only finished it after the contest) 

[*]Any puzzle must be foolproof to prevent players from being stuck forever
[*] 
[*]All battles must be winnable with enough skill regardless of the setu

• in the event that an "unwinnable" battle is beaten either legitimately or not, the game must be set up to handle that scenario 

Hint for Second Fate's final boss:

Spoiler

The class of the boss is clearly stated for a reason. One boss has a counter to one of their counters, but it is a relatively minimal issue if you are using certain heals and debuffs.

Recommended party is Sefis, Ikatemi, Sayuri and Player in order to maximize healing, debuffs, and damage.
 For those unfamiliar with Tactic games and Visual Novels


This game has many similarities to Visual Novels of the Kinetic Novel subset in that most of the game involves reading and a very limited number of choices.

This game has some similarities to certain tactic games in that it uses a Rock Paper Scissors based combat system. What exactly is a Rock Paper Scissors combat system? It is where one type of attack/weapon/spell beats another type, but is weak to yet another type. Sort of like Water douses Fire, Fire melts Metal, Metal cuts Wood, Wood absorbs Earth, Earth blocks Water.

In this case, the general rule is that:

Light Attacks beat Heavy Attacks. Heavy Attacks beat Guard. Guard beats Light Attacks. Rapid and Magic are two special types of attack.

Light Attacks are Swift (melee) and Aimed (ranged). Heavy Attacks are Crush (melee) and Pierce (ranged).

Rapid beats Pierce and is strong against Light Attacks, but is weak against Crush and Guard.

While there are very few battles in the game, strategy is more important than power.

 SPOILERS!: Highlight to read!

Spoiler

(SPOILER ALERT: This game was supposed to have the opposite mood of "First" fate).

Spoilers for Third Fate? Read what the Dragon, the Hero, and the Monk say very carefully. They hint at the theme for third fate!

In my games, characters have a high chance of dying, even main characters.

Some things that are missing:

Spoiler

A few pretty important story elements are missing from this (Will be included with either third fate or the re-release of the game after the contest)-there are entire sections of scenes that were cut in order to shorten the game without leaving too much unanswered.

This includes minor details such as: How did Erfim die? Just why do certain characters seem to change their personalities in certain locations? and what is the full truth about certain characters? Why are the people from other worlds speaking the same language - or are they? They are not

More major details include: What happened to the Eirs? To Tchort? How was Erfim able to die? Why did Erfim choose to die at that point?

 Some Notes About First Fate:

Spoiler

You are EXPECTED to die. Try to not die to the same thing too many times though, you might trigger a secret scene that takes about 150~300 hours to obtain legitimately (assuming you are trying to do it on purpose), lol. (There is another way to obtain it, but good luck finding out how!)

A secret goal of First Fate is to try to collect all the special ways you can die.

The tutorial is probably harder than the actual fight. The tutorial uses "standard" characters while the actual fights use "specialized" characters.

Tips:


Read everything, even your items.

Die and wait for the Game Over screen (you get a bonus if you wait until the save point pops up)

Each enemy has a counter. The trick is rotating the counters properly.

If you are really struggling, there are two items that are fairly odd. Using them may help lead to the path of victory.

 Planned Changes in Third Moment (Third Fate):

Spoiler

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• Will combined first and second fate while including more of the story.
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• Will be called First Fate: Third Moment.
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• Will include the burst gauge (A hidden gauge for a certain character). In relation to this, will include the combo mode.This is an expansion to the battle system where doing certain combos/actions will build up or deplete a hidden gauge.
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• Once the burst gauge fills, the protagonist of that Moment will gain a special move that allows them to chain special skills together.
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• Certain combinations of these skills will do special attacks with powerful results. Other combinations will simply do a powerful combo 

[*]Duel Driver: A special "Driver" that will be activated partway into the game for a specific character. It will enable a special battle mode.
[*] 
[*]Slowed down story for more RPG elements and better understanding of the combat system.
[*] 
[*]Expanded Story

• Most of the story will be rewritten 

[*]Slightly increased cast. Certain characters that haven't been available yet as party members will be added.

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• A special new party member will also be joining in.
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[*]Finished difficulty system. Different difficulties will enable/disable different boss skills.
[*] 
[*]Finished Fate skill system. As you progress through the story, you will gain/lose skills based on your choices.
[*] 
[*]Multiple endings.
[*] 
[*]True end. Unlocked by finishing all the other endings.
[*] 
[*]New Game Plus. Carry over some of your progression to a new game!
[*] 
[*]Improved combat system. More focus on the tactical side than the rpg side of combat.
[*] 
Planned if reasonably possible:

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• More active combat system.
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• Alternative to battle! The pen is mightier than the sword. Instead of fighting, perhaps you can be diplomatic?
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• Complex puzzles.
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• Resulting effect: Various puzzles and choices may result in the life or death of certain characters! And life and death may go hand and hand. Or perhaps just death?
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• Deity mode:Truly unleash your party's full strength with the hidden deity gauges!
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• Fuller gauge means stronger character!
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• Upon maxing your gauge, you will be given the option to empty your gauge for a powerful boost. Will you use your Deity mode for a powerful moment in battle or will you keep it for more sustained power 

Extra Links and notes:


Contest entry can be found here: http://contest.rpgmakerweb.com/game/view/id/738

First Fate can be found here for now (I will be changing this to deleted in the near future):
http://contest.rpgmakerweb.com/game/view/id/525

First Fate includes a few extras, including hidden characters planned for Second Fate.

(This post will be edited for clarity as needed)

Thanks to anyone who gives me feedback.

As I stated on the main page, if you leave feedback and give me a link to your game (put it with your feedback if you want to make it easy for me), I'll go and play your game as soon as I can and leave feedback (either review, raw feedback, or a report of bugs. Feel free to decide which one you want, otherwise, I will most likely provide just raw feedback (as in not really organized and not really in a specific direction).

I especially need feedback on what is wrong with the game. If you are just giving feedback, please ignore First Fate.
 

Minimal Spoiler Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

[xeroborn]

I didn't even get past the tutorial battle in this one.

first of all, I'm curious why you chose not to use any extra scripts? I don't think that was a wise choice.

I started with the first fate game, and watched the opening. It was not specific enough. Give me details to help build the world in my head. When the opening was over I had only the vaguest idea what was happening. I like to read, thats why i downloaded your game. You describe this as a visual novel. Give me something interesting to read. Bring in the characters in the opening cutscene. Give me something to latch on to.

The tutorial battle. The default battle system of rpgmaker is bad. Not so much the systems of it, but more visually giving the player an idea of what is happening. You describe your combat and it was admittedly confusing, but not having any kind of visual help to explain it made it nearly incomprehensible. I wasn't sure if I was picking abilities for my characters or the rats? i had little to no idea what was happening.

You also have a rock paper scissor combat system. I think it would be a better idea to introduce the different interactions of the system one at a time. I have played several games for this contest that just dump all that info on the player at one time in like one little text box. As a player that is not fun.

The little scene where the characters open the door was promising. But figuring out the battle system was more work then I'm willing to put in at this point.

 

[SinのAria]

I didn't even get past the tutorial battle in this one.

first of all, I'm curious why you chose not to use any extra scripts? I don't think that was a wise choice.

I started with the first fate game, and watched the opening. It was not specific enough. Give me details to help build the world in my head. When the opening was over I had only the vaguest idea what was happening. I like to read, thats why i downloaded your game. You describe this as a visual novel. Give me something interesting to read. Bring in the characters in the opening cutscene. Give me something to latch on to.

The tutorial battle. The default battle system of rpgmaker is bad. Not so much the systems of it, but more visually giving the player an idea of what is happening. You describe your combat and it was admittedly confusing, but not having any kind of visual help to explain it made it nearly incomprehensible. I wasn't sure if I was picking abilities for my characters or the rats? i had little to no idea what was happening.

You also have a rock paper scissor combat system. I think it would be a better idea to introduce the different interactions of the system one at a time. I have played several games for this contest that just dump all that info on the player at one time in like one little text box. As a player that is not fun.

The little scene where the characters open the door was promising. But figuring out the battle system was more work then I'm willing to put in at this point.

I mainly chose to not use any extra scripts as a sort of challenge to see what I could do with the base program.

Yeah, I was a bit shorter on time and First Fate wasn't really my entry for this contest so it was just included and wasn't really something I focused on (I probably should've just removed the battle).  As I mentioned, second fate was the actual entry and first fate can be skipped without losing much. First Fate was mainly included for the purpose of if anyone wanted to see what happened before the events of Second Fate.

I am working on third moment (previously called third fate) now which expands the story a bit more, including much of the backstory that was removed for various reasons and giving out the tutorial portion of the game in a more expanded manner (The tutorial was honestly supposed to be several battles long and First Fate wasn't originally supposed to have one).  And I definitely plan to add more visual cues as well as text cues.

Anyways, I'll check out your game once I get a chance.

 

[Housekeeping]

I actually played this one for a bit the other day and gave up during the tutorial battle as well.  My main concern was that the battle system hinges on learning something that has no internal logic.  Things like "crush beats rapid" or "rapid beats swift" don't make any sense (I'm sure those aren't correct).  Traditional element systems work because they follow a logic: fire melts ice, water puts out fire, water conducts electricity.  Your game asked you to memorize an arbitrary system and then you have to be able to apply it instantly, as the monsters don't seem to have a visual cue of which attribute they're using beyond their first turn message, which goes by pretty quickly.  I didn't want to do an official review or anything since I didn't get very far, but I figured I should chime in since I just saw this topic.

 

[xeroborn]

I mainly chose to not use any extra scripts as a sort of challenge to see what I could do with the base program.

Yeah, I was a bit shorter on time and First Fate wasn't really my entry for this contest so it was just included and wasn't really something I focused on (I probably should've just removed the battle).  As I mentioned, second fate was the actual entry and first fate can be skipped without losing much. First Fate was mainly included for the purpose of if anyone wanted to see what happened before the events of Second Fate.

I am working on third moment (previously called third fate) now which expands the story a bit more, including much of the backstory that was removed for various reasons and giving out the tutorial portion of the game in a more expanded manner (The tutorial was honestly supposed to be several battles long and First Fate wasn't originally supposed to have one).  And I definitely plan to add more visual cues as well as text cues.

Anyways, I'll check out your game once I get a chance.

Ah, okay. Yeah, I guess its my slight ocd tendancies. If you give me the opportunity to start at the beginning or prologue or whatever, I'm going to. I think spreading the battle information over multiple tutorials is a very good idea. Sounds like you are on the right track.

As for my game, you can play what I submitted if you want. But I have kept working on the game, and the current version is very different then what I submitted. I am honestly more interested in feedback on the new version. I'll post that in my game's thread here when its done. probably a week or so.

 

[SinのAria]

I actually played this one for a bit the other day and gave up during the tutorial battle as well.  My main concern was that the battle system hinges on learning something that has no internal logic.  Things like "crush beats rapid" or "rapid beats swift" don't make any sense (I'm sure those aren't correct).  Traditional element systems work because they follow a logic: fire melts ice, water puts out fire, water conducts electricity.  Your game asked you to memorize an arbitrary system and then you have to be able to apply it instantly, as the monsters don't seem to have a visual cue of which attribute they're using beyond their first turn message, which goes by pretty quickly.  I didn't want to do an official review or anything since I didn't get very far, but I figured I should chime in since I just saw this topic.

Ah, I see.  The reason for that is because they are two separate types of attacks.  Rapid is actually mainly for "ranged" attacks and only a few melee attacks use it (Mainly because I figured that adding a melee version that does the same thing would only add to the confusion).   Swift and crush are both specific to melee attacks.  I'll likely be reducing the attack types later in order to simplify it.  (The main reason there are multiple types is because I wanted to have both a melee counter and a ranged counter that only countered that set).

A lot of this will be changed though for third moment.  (Which I plan to post on this site once I have enough of it ready)

 

Ah, okay. Yeah, I guess its my slight ocd tendancies. If you give me the opportunity to start at the beginning or prologue or whatever, I'm going to. I think spreading the battle information over multiple tutorials is a very good idea. Sounds like you are on the right track.

As for my game, you can play what I submitted if you want. But I have kept working on the game, and the current version is very different then what I submitted. I am honestly more interested in feedback on the new version. I'll post that in my game's thread here when its done. probably a week or so.

 

I guess I'll wait then.   I honestly only intended First Fate for people that were stuck on the final boss or for people who had already finished second fate to play first fate (since getting stuck on first fate's boss actually rewards you for getting stuck and most of the rewards carry over to Second Fate's final boss).

I was a bit more restrained for the contest but now I'm working on the full game so I'm including everything that wasn't in the contest version.

 

[Housekeeping]

I think the main problem isn't the number, it's the fact that there's no immediate logic to the system.  Look at Pokemon: there are lots of different element types, but they tend to have logical links between them, e.g. birds eat bugs, bugs are too dumb to be affected by psychic, and so on.  There are a few stretches (poison is weak to psychic?) but for the most part there is a logic at work.

 

[SinのAria]

I think the main problem isn't the number, it's the fact that there's no immediate logic to the system.  Look at Pokemon: there are lots of different element types, but they tend to have logical links between them, e.g. birds eat bugs, bugs are too dumb to be affected by psychic, and so on.  There are a few stretches (poison is weak to psychic?) but for the most part there is a logic at work.

Heavy Attack (Crush/Pierce) Beats Defending (Guard).  Defending beats Light Attacks (Swift, Aimed).  Light Attacks beat Heavy Attacks.    Rapid is really the only exception since Rapid was supposed to counter counterattack (specifically ranged counterattack) and was modified to be somewhat of a special attack type that is is essentially a modified form of defending.

Originally:

Melee:

Crush > Guard > Swift > Crush

Counter > Crush/Swift

Area > Counter

Ranged: 

Pierce > Guard > Aimed > Pierce

Return Fire > Pierce/Aimed

Rapid > Return Fire

(Ranged was supposed to have an advantage at a certain distance, but since I was having trouble adding distance, I decided to scrap the distance idea)

===

Again though, I plan to rework the system to make it easier to understand both with more spread out tutorials and a revised system once I get to work with scripts.

 

[Simon D. Aelsi]

<REDACTED>

Thank you for fixing your tiny text...

Alright... now with that out of the way... The project itself seems promising. Your (so far) only screenshot shows a rather plain room, though. D: I do like the two-tone effect, though.

 

[Alkorri]

Yeah, like Iron Croc says, at first the text was tiny and nearly impossible to read. It's still difficult to read with that black background, but at least you increased the text size and chose a font colour that contrasts well until I could sorta go through it.

Your game looks promising enough. I just wonder if you have more screenshots.

 

[SinのAria]

Yeah, like Iron Croc says, at first the text was tiny and nearly impossible to read. It's still difficult to read with that black background, but at least you increased the text size and chose a font colour that contrasts well until I could sorta go through it.

Your game looks promising enough. I just wonder if you have more screenshots.

Three (total) low spoiler screenshots posted.  And I know at least one of them sounds so many levels of wrong out of context.

Honestly, this game is nowhere near where it should have been since I had to gut it way too much due to time constraints.

 

[Alkorri]

Thanks for the screenies, sinnoaria I noticed the OP text looks even better and easier to read. Good job!