I'm never buying RPG Maker ever again.

cygnus

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I'm writing this post because I'm upset with the company in general. I'm a mac owner. I pre-paid the game in full, waiting for the game to come out. I waited. I waited. I waited. I waited. Then––all that's given is a Steam game.


I didn't want Steam. I wanted a native Mac version. I bought the game because I really believed that a true native version of the game was coming. Instead, what I got was a Steam game. Not a native folder. Not a native directory. No native files.


I paid how much for it? 90 some dollars? And then, when I ask for a refund––nothing, because it was past the "60 day limit." I'm sorry. I'm never buying another game from this website––ever. I really hoped that this would have been an answer, and that I would have been able to make real games––with custom sprites, animations, everything. But, no.


Frankly, I feel deceived. I waited past the 60 day limit because I genuinely believed that the native software was coming soon. That's what you told me––it would be coming soon. It didn't come. It hasn't come. It's been almost a year. And then, when I asked for a refund––you refused to give anything back.


I'm sorry. But you're thieves.


I'll never buy anything from you again. You didn't keep your promise.
 

MadMaus

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I looked over the product page and there are disclaimers all over the place, at the product description and right next to the big yellow "BUY NOW!" buttons saying that the Mac version is distributed ONLY in Steam. Did they ever said a native Mac version would be released, by the way or you just presumed they would release it some day in the future?

Edit: I looked at your profile and found your past topics about the Mac version of RM. They stated clearly that they were waiting for the Japanese original developers to finish the Mac version to release it around here. Enterbrain UK/Degica are NOT the original developers of the product.

Still, you have not been robbed as no one have pointed a gun at your face forcing you to buy it. You should be careful when making serious accusations like that.
 
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orochii

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But seriously, I would like to hear if there is a possibility of RPG Maker MV's Mac version being a "native Mac application". I can understand because Steam is actually kind of annoying sometimes, doesn't matter if it's PC or Mac, xD. Steam is like that thing that reminds me what was the price to get so much discounts "orz *pact with the devil*.


Having the software installed and independent from any other is very appealing.


Sad to hear about your bad experiences cygnus. I hope you get to use it anyway, it's a nice piece of software and you already paid for it.
 

Lunarea

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I figured that you'd want an official answer, so here it is. It may not mean much to you, but we do care about the customers and don't want anyone to feel like they're being ignored.


Firstly, let me say that I'm sorry that you've had a negative experience. We do strive to deliver the best experience we possibly can, but we're also faced with some of the same issues and delays - which is frustrating for everyone involved. No one is intentionally sitting there, trying to think of ways to make RPG Maker users' life difficult. In fact, we spend extensive amounts of time trouble-shooting problems and coordinating things so that things are pleasant and fun for our users and our community.


Stand-alone version of MV hasn't been forgotten or shelved. It's still very much on the development team's to-do list and we are trying to prioritize it. However, the developers also wanted to first fix some of the pretty major errors and issues MV had -- things that broke the engine or the games created with the engine for everyone. It seemed counter-intuitive to push out a Mac stand-alone version when there were other more urgent issues with the engine to solve. I'm not a programmer, but this seemed logical to me.


In addition, please remember that our team isn't huge. Even though we all work super hard to ensure that RPG Maker is supported, that the errors are fixed and that there's a constant stream of new content, we don't have hundreds of people working on each of those tasks. We can't deliver the "fixed in a couple of weeks" kind of work you can expect from a massive game developer studio.


We have provided people with an alternative so that they can still use MV on their Macs. Yes, it requires Steam and I know that's not convenient or preferred by everyone. But it's there, and you aren't stuck with having paid 90$ for something you can't use at all.


Also... RPG Maker MV was released in October (that's when the pre-orders started, too). It's been just 6 months since release, not a year. Since then, we've had extensive updates and freebies shared, in addition to trying to keep communication open where possible in terms of what we're working on. I hope that shows that effort has been put into fixing and maintaining the engine.
 

Ghost of Christmas Kloe

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No offence to the OP, but this is one reason why I have windows instead!


You aren't being robbed, it isn't a huge deal, but I understand the frustration and I say sorry to hear that.
 

EternalShadow

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I'm writing this post because I'm upset with the company in general. I'm a mac owner. I pre-paid the game in full, waiting for the game to come out. I waited. I waited. I waited. I waited. Then––all that's given is a Steam game.


I didn't want Steam. I wanted a native Mac version. I bought the game because I really believed that a true native version of the game was coming. Instead, what I got was a Steam game. Not a native folder. Not a native directory. No native files.


I really hoped that this would have been an answer, and that I would have been able to make real games––with custom sprites, animations, everything. But, no.



It isn't a Steam Game, it's the actual engine. You can actually use it to make games, with custom sprites etc. There is no difference between the Steam and Non-Steam versions of the Maker, except for having to launch via Steam. However, updates are much easier to install (automatic) and DLC is provided in the same folder with an easy-to-purchase and use system.


When you mention "native", what are you referring to? The files would be in JavaScript, not a Mac-only language. The images would also remain as they are.
 

Kaliya

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When you mention "native", what are you referring to? The files would be in JavaScript, not a Mac-only language. The images would also remain as they are.

They are referring to a standalone application (or I hope they are, or they're using that term wrong), much like an exe is the "native application extension" of Windows. The steam version is "native", it just needs to be ran through steam, because dealing with Apple to get standalone applications created is a pain in the butt. At least I believe that is the reason the higher ups chose to work on the engine until it is in a stable condition before dealing with a Mac installer.
 

EternalShadow

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They are referring to a standalone application (or I hope they are, or they're using that term wrong), much like an exe is the "native application extension" of Windows. The steam version is "native", it just needs to be ran through steam, because dealing with Apple to get standalone applications created is a pain in the butt. At least I believe that is the reason the higher ups chose to work on the engine until it is in a stable condition before dealing with a Mac installer.



Yeah, the reference to native files is what confused me, as they're multiplatform as they are.
 

cygnus

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There's just one issue––the disclaimers, though they're posted all over the website––I don't think they were there when I first purchased the game. Although the trial version is Windows-only, when I purchased the game, it made it seem as if the native-file version of the game was the complete product, and that the Steam version of the game was just an addition to make file transfers cloud-based or easier to transfer. I'm not a Steam gamer, and I didn't really want Steam. I just wanted the native files, so I could make and create my own games that I could maybe have friends try out.


Hence why I'm upset. It was actually the inverse. The game has to be run through Steam rather than as a native file. I don't understand file directories in Steam, I found it confusing and frustrating, and I couldn't easily import.


I do have a receipt of how much I actually spent (apparently 71$, so I just didn't remember correctly)––I just found it after digging through mail. I merely had the impression that the product was finished from the beginning. I'm not someone who specializes in computers or programming, and I understand that solving one bug can occasionally create 166 more. It's still, however, necessary to keep one's promise, and the promise was that the standalone file––even if they were for two different operating systems––would be ready by the 23rd of October. It's now the 26th of April. It's still half of a year, and I haven't seen anything come back from it yet.


I did not mean to exaggerate the length of time. It truly has felt like a year has passed, even though it's actually only been half of one. But half of a year is still a long time to wait for the product that was promised. I understand that developing software for the Mac is hell. I don't want to be the one, single, angry customer who ruins somebody else's day. Believe me, I don't. Yes, you can technically play the game on the mac, but the fact that it is directly tied to Steam is an issue, because it makes it feel like there are strings attached to an already expensive product. It's almost like surfing on the internet, because every time I want to use RPG Maker, I see advertisements, et cetera. Furthermore, I couldn't really add any images or files, nor could I use any third party programs (expansion packs/engines, whatever they are called) in Steam. As a result, the product was extremely limited.


I understand that the team is small, but the failure is not in the delivery of the product. The failure was in the marketing. The software may have been ready for the Windows, but it was not ready for the Mac. It's important to release a product when it is ready, rather than when it is rushed. Even if Apple's validation process takes a significant amount of time, it is still a process that must be seen through the end. Otherwise, you end up with situations like this––where customers are upset.


You may not have intended to steal anything from me, but after faithfully waiting for months now, it does feel like what I paid was stolen. I received a product I'm not happy with. I asked why the standalone version wasn't out yet. A short time before the sixty day period was up, someone on these forums reassured me that the standalone version was coming soon. So I was faithful and waited past the sixty days. And still, I've got nothing.


This is why it's an issue.
 

MadMaus

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@cygnus

The Steam version of the application works. It's not broken, it's not unusable, very far from it, even if it have any bugs right now. When you run the software from steam, not a single file of your projects needs to be inside the steam directories, as you can create and save them anywhere (And RPG Maker will remember this and use this location for all the next projects you create).

They said the Mac version will come. They didn't said when, but it will come. Six months are not enough to release an entire new version of a software based on a platform with a completely different architecture when you have a TON of other things in priority (Like fixing bugs on the win version of the software).

The main problem I see here is not that they are not keeping their promises or that the product was bad marketed, it's that you're an impatient guy and don't want to wait for a product to be released when it's ready to be.

Heck, I really don't want to be on your feet when you hit a wall while developing your first game if you think six months are too much time...
 

jwideman

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I've never understood all the hate against Steam. Every single argument against it that's ever been posed has been either ignorance, misstating facts, or repeating lies that hackers used to tell about it (until they figured out how to defeat it, now they love it.)


Steam is nothing more than a download manager and application launcher with some social media features. Complaining about it is just being contrarian.
 

Andar

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@jwideman not exactly.


In the early days, steam was a lot more restricting (as were all those similiar other programs that day). Steam survived and became big compared to those early alternatives because they changed how their system worked, removing some of those earlier restrictions and changing other problematic parts. A lot of people are only repeating what was true at that time, even if it is no longer true today.


And there are two points that are still a problem even today:


1) Steam is an additional program that needs to be loaded in the background for playing, and there are a lot of people whose computers don't have the reserves to handle that while also playing a game with high requirements. Not to mention that in some cases, security requirements forbid installation of steam while allowing single programs to go through an approval process - not every computer where games are played is a private one.


2) Having all programs registered through a single platform makes it easier to create a user profile. And the claim that only criminals need to hide what they're doing is simply wrong - there is something like commercial espionage for example where a company pays to learn how a competing company does its business with the intention to drive them out of the market. No, the gamer kid doesn't need to concern itself with such cases - but steam provides more than just games.
 

bgillisp

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Furthermore, I couldn't really add any images or files, nor could I use any third party programs (expansion packs/engines, whatever they are called) in Steam. As a result, the product was extremely limited.

That is 100% false. all you have to do is copy and paste the files into your project directory. Just like those of us with the stand alone version have to do.
 

jwideman

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@jwideman not exactly.


In the early days, steam was a lot more restricting (as were all those similiar other programs that day). Steam survived and became big compared to those early alternatives because they changed how their system worked, removing some of those earlier restrictions and changing other problematic parts. A lot of people are only repeating what was true at that time, even if it is no longer true today.


And there are two points that are still a problem even today:


1) Steam is an additional program that needs to be loaded in the background for playing, and there are a lot of people whose computers don't have the reserves to handle that while also playing a game with high requirements. Not to mention that in some cases, security requirements forbid installation of steam while allowing single programs to go through an approval process - not every computer where games are played is a private one.


2) Having all programs registered through a single platform makes it easier to create a user profile. And the claim that only criminals need to hide what they're doing is simply wrong - there is something like commercial espionage for example where a company pays to learn how a competing company does its business with the intention to drive them out of the market. No, the gamer kid doesn't need to concern itself with such cases - but steam provides more than just games.



1. What, are you running it on an abacus? If your computer can't handle steam in the background, it can't handle modern games. Or even older ones.


2. Steam has privacy settings, so this is a non-issue. If you want to argue that Valve will sell your data or use it for their own advantage... :rolleyes:
 

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