IMPORTANT: Possible MV School Rework. Join the Conversation and express your opinion.

Discussion in 'RPG Maker MV School' started by Touchfuzzy, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

    Messages:
    6,227
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Athens, GA, USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Hi, everyone! I'm sure since we've announced @Rhino coming on to help me, that you have all been curious as to what is going on with this project. To get things back on track we had to take the planning back to square one. That means going over the good ideas I had, and taking a closer look at what we can do in total with it.

    We looked through the lessons made, and we also looked through the NPCs people had made to fill our world.

    And we've come to a bit of a crossroads, and now we need to ask you, the contributors and fans of the ideal of this project, which way we go. We have 2 options:

    1. We continue as we are going. This will mean that most of the lessons are disconnected, and the lessons themselves are for the most part, just whatever people want to make. This is the simplest and easiest thing to do.

    2. Go back to the beginning, and build it up from the ground to be a more cohesive project. This would mean splitting the way to play into a story mode which would follow a mostly set path (not linear but more like an open world where things unlock over time), and a free play mode (where you can play whatever lesson you want at any time, though the story will be disjointed). We would attempt to be more thorough in beginner's lessons. This would be accomplished by putting a list of lessons we need, and then having people volunteer for them. The advantage here is that since most things will be beginner, almost anyone could make these lessons and contribute. We would also need to coordinate all people contributing to work together to make the story mode, actually a story mode. This also lets us put in more gamey things that AREN'T just tutorials, like maybe relationships with students, and other fun little bits like that.

    Rhino and I are both leaning towards #2. What this means though, is that some work must be scrapped, and we will have to start anew with a different approach. The base project still works for this, but we will be putting a lot more structure into how we work with contributors and integrate things.

    I'm sure that you will need to know a bit more about what number 2 will entail for what is already done, and how we plan to implement it in the future. Here are the answers to a few concerns we thought would come up:

    What will be done with the current lessons already made?
    For the most part, these can still be used. We may need to tweak a few, or add in some prerequisites, but no major changes will be necessary. If the creator wants, they can work in bits of the main story, but even this will not be necessary, as side quests will always be a thing.

    What about NPC submissions?
    These should be fine as is as well. We may approach individual submitters for more information to better use them in the story mode, or in any side mechanics better, but the average NPC will still be fine as what is being written. Not every character will be implemented beyond existing as a fixture of the school, there are just too many for us to make all of them story/sidequest important. If you want to ensure your characters importance, the best way to ensure your character has some weight will still be making lessons.

    Will this constrain the creativity of the lesson makers?
    Yes and no. At first, we will be focusing on what we consider the very basics of RPG Maker that everyone will need to know how to do. More advanced lessons will have to wait for further down the queue.

    We will come up with all of these topics as a group, and then lesson creators will call specific ones they want to do, pitch the story mode story, and then they will be given a go ahead. As we get out of the first bits, topics will become more open, and allow people to work more on lessons of subjects of their own creating, but every lesson now will involve some discussion of how we want the story to work behind the scenes, and we will probably create a closed forum for regular contributors to discuss the overall story going forward (mostly I don't want to spoil newbies who come in with an open topic, though we can do that if people feel it is the most advantageous way.)

    We are also hoping that predefined lesson topics to volunteer for will help lesson contributors get involved, as they no longer will be relied on to do everything whole cloth and have more support from the team.

    What is the story?
    Well, we haven't worked a lot on this part until we decide to go that way. I intend to keep the story revolving around Touchfuzzy's ex-life as a space pirate, him dealing with the first mate that betrayed him (or that he betrayed, depending on who you asked) and recovering the AI(Ferus) from his old ship to install into the school. But that is a very minor bit of story, and we can weave whatever we want around that. Once again we have a lot of leeway on how to proceed with the story, as the school is a multidimensional entity that exists in many lands at once

    So which do people prefer? Do we want to just get this out as is, or do we want to do a strong rework of the concept to create something that is potentially much better? Are there any other questions you have about this possible rework?
     
    #1
  2. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

    Messages:
    6,227
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Athens, GA, USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Oh, to address one more question: Prizes from the first round:

    These will still be awarded. And we hope that the people who contributed will help us going forward with more.
     
    #2
    Sauteed_Onion and Rhino like this.
  3. EpicFILE

    EpicFILE Epic Member Veteran

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    1,139
    Location:
    Bogor
    First Language:
    Indonesia
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I just opened up the base project today and thinking if I can contribute something to it.
    I have some question, though.
    Do I need to have some lessons to be able to contribute?
    Say I just want to create some music or artwork for the game without having any lessons.
    Is that allowed?

    Anyway, the concept is very cool because you bring RM tutorials into a game.
    The story makes it more interesting. :D
     
    #3
    Sauteed_Onion likes this.
  4. Llareian

    Llareian Jack of All Trades, Master of None Veteran

    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I've been waiting for the second round to contribute, because I didn't quite understand how this was fitting together before and wanted to see the first round results to understand. I do better creating with more structure, so I'd personally like the second option. (Maybe you could put a vote up on the post to easily tally opinions, @Touchfuzzy ?)
     
    #4
    Sauteed_Onion and EpicFILE like this.
  5. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

    Messages:
    6,227
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Athens, GA, USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    @Llareian I actually had the discussion with Rhino about a poll. I didn't want a poll because I wanted to hear peoples opinions who are invested enough to actually talk about it.

    But yes, one of the big things about this idea is way more structure.

    @EpicFILE Artwork and Music are always going to be needed. We'd be happy to have someone contribute in that area, even if they aren't interested in making lessons.
     
    #5
    Sauteed_Onion, EpicFILE and Llareian like this.
  6. EpicFILE

    EpicFILE Epic Member Veteran

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    1,139
    Location:
    Bogor
    First Language:
    Indonesia
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    @Touchfuzzy
    Awesome. :D
    I have a desire to be involved in a community-based game project at 2015.
    Forgotten about that, but after seeing this, maybe this is a good time to do just that.

    Anyway, is this a more laid-back project with no strict deadline?
    How to submit my works?
     
    #6
    Sauteed_Onion likes this.
  7. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

    Messages:
    6,227
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Athens, GA, USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    There will be deadlines, but it is more in the "if you don't get x in by y date, then it won't be in the next build". We'll have to be a bit more strict on people making lessons that others rely on for the story mode, but for art and music, I don't think it will be as strict.
     
    #7
    Sauteed_Onion and EpicFILE like this.
  8. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom, Ham of a Hamster Veteran

    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    8,683
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    First Language:
    Czech
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    In all honesty, this is the exact thing I was asking myself when the concept first came out... And this was exactly the thing I thought it would crash on... Except for possible low contribution rate.
    I think that it is better to choose option #2. Because as it is now, it is pretty hard to even build up a difficulty ladder and stuff like that. Maybe it would also not be a bad idea to build something like Mapping section, programming section, eventing section and stuff like that, although that is just my opinion. After all, you can't objectively say that mapping a shrine is more difficult than eventing a battle system, since these two things are about two completely different topics.
     
    #8
  9. Sauteed_Onion

    Sauteed_Onion Mmm Tasty Veteran

    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    3,656
    Location:
    Perhaps on a steak or cheeseburger
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Ok, I will try to contribute. <3. I suppose I will p.m. my submissions later or when I'm back in internet territory. I'm in a camper in the wilderness now, yay!
     
    #9
  10. EpicFILE

    EpicFILE Epic Member Veteran

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    1,139
    Location:
    Bogor
    First Language:
    Indonesia
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I haven't said which one is better.
    Number 2 is a better option imo.

    I have an idea about how to make it structured but still fill gamey.
    Something like how Hogwarts (Harry Potter) handle the magic academy.
    There are Gryffindor, Slytherin and other guilds.
    Maybe it'd be interesting if at the start of the game, players can choose which guild they want to join.
    Do they want to join eventer guild, mapper guild, or databaser guild? (the choices can be expanded)

    Each guild provide different storyline, but the main concept of the story stays the same.
    It's just about having different perspectives about how the story will unfold, and what lessons will be provided.
    That way the players will be engaged and focused on one type of lessons per playthrough.
    Basically it's just like giving the players a chance to choose set of curriculums.
    If they completed one set, they can move on to the next set in the next playthrough.
     
    #10
    Sauteed_Onion and Rhino like this.
  11. shockra

    shockra Slightly Crazy Programmer Veteran

    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    147
    Location:
    US
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I like the second option. It does mean a little more work all around, but I think it's worth it. Having a cohesive story in the school will help keep the player engaged throughout. Plus, as some of the others mentioned, the revamp will help reorganize the lessons so that it makes sure they learned what they needed to for later lessons.
     
    #11
  12. slimmmeiske2

    slimmmeiske2 Little Red Riding Hood Moderator

    Messages:
    4,995
    Likes Received:
    3,891
    Location:
    Belgium
    First Language:
    Dutch
    Primarily Uses:
    RMXP
    Definitely number 2. Some more structure and interconnectivity between students, teachers and lessons will go a long way to make the project more enjoyable. The project at the moment is very educational, but I’m sure more people will enjoy it/keep at it/pick it up if there’s some sort of (side) story to enjoy.

    Having two modes to choose from would also be beneficial to those who’ve played through most lessons and want to try the newer ones or those who are expert enough that they want to skip the beginner’s levels.

    Predefined lessons sound like a great idea. There’s always folks who would be able to teach but had no idea what to.

    Yay, sidequests! Maybe some/one of the side-quests could involve applying what you just learned. For example, a fellow classmate asking for help with their homework after you finished the lesson.

    As for NPCs and what not, maybe it might be cool to ask the “students” what lessons they want to attend? Or at least the ones you want to build on. That way they might also stand out more from the regular NPCs.

    Some other (silly) ideas:
    • Ability to redo or revise lessons already done. Let’s say there’s a lot of time between Switches Part 1 and Switches Part 2, being able to redo or revise Switches part 1 would help out a lot before I start Switches part 2.
    • Tests: So I’ve finished attending all the classes in the update and I want to try apply what I’ve learned/see what I remember and what I should focus on more. This could either be a mandatory test or this could be an optional thing.

    @EpicFILE While I like your idea, what if someone wants to do all lessons? So not only those of their “guild”.
    I think joining a “guild” would be a pretty cool side-mechanic (though I imagine it would be more similar to a club). For example, you could join the mappers guild/club and get some extra tips in the guild/club room. And if you’ve completed (a) mapping lesson(s), maybe something extra can unlock in the room (sidequest/reward/whatever).
     
    #12
  13. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

    Messages:
    6,227
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Athens, GA, USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Clubs could be a fun side mechanic/way to unlock new lessons, especially if no club is mutually exclusive.
     
    #13
  14. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Global Mod

    Messages:
    12,569
    Likes Received:
    10,227
    Location:
    USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    N/A
    I think you should go with option #2. It's a lot more work, but the end result should be a lot better for not only getting people to try the game but keeping them engaged once they're in, and guarantee that they'll actually have all the parts needed for the school to do its job. I also think having a list of what needs to be covered and what already has would be really great for getting more people to make lessons. A lot of people want to help but don't know what is needed, having a nebulous "anything is good!" makes the effort feel not as valuable and puts a lot of pressure on the teacher to figure out what's needed. This is also going to be true for any music, sounds, artwork, ect. that's needed, if there's a list of things to cover, people will start filling the gaps.

    I like the idea of clubs for extra depth. I was thinking of more secondary school set up like college, but calling it clubs seems more fun.
     
    #14
  15. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

    Messages:
    6,227
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Athens, GA, USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I always picture it as high school, but this is because I play way too much Persona.
     
    #15
    Sharm and Sauteed_Onion like this.
  16. Rhino

    Rhino ~Inactive~ Veteran

    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    775
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Thanks for all of your ideas! There are no silly suggestions, all are welcome! :kaoluv:

    In answer to @EpicFILE and @slimmmeiske2 I think it's likely that topics will be split into their own areas and routes, but these will all be done in one playthrough as opposed to continuously starting a new game. That would allow us to expand and intertwine areas of the school more rather than just seeing pieces of it grow per playthrough. In free play mode you'd be able to access all lessons instantly, and replay them as many times as you'd like. (Although the story may become disjointed, the lessons will still make sense.)
     
    #16
  17. Sauteed_Onion

    Sauteed_Onion Mmm Tasty Veteran

    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    3,656
    Location:
    Perhaps on a steak or cheeseburger
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Yeah don't mind me, grey stripey cat that wants treats in the machines.
     
    #17
  18. Poryg

    Poryg Pixie of the Emvee kingdom, Ham of a Hamster Veteran

    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    8,683
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    First Language:
    Czech
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    @Sauteed_Onion No wonder people ignored you, you were posting Off topic :p

    Btw. There is already a topic for posting character submissions. In order to submit lessons, that would go a bit differently.
     
    #18
    Sauteed_Onion likes this.
  19. SuperMasterSword

    SuperMasterSword That Guy You Dont Know Veteran

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Awesomeville
    First Language:
    Javascript
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I agree with the second option. As mamy others have said, being more structured would allow for a more coherent story, as well as a smoother difficulty curve. In addition, it would be much easier for others to contribute as they can just fill in the gaps of what's needed. It might also allow us to see what most people seem to have trouble with, and design around that.
    I can definitely say it would help me. I was really struggling to come up with ideas, to see what I'm particularly good at that others might find difficult (besides coding). I had wanted to create a lesson for interesting reactions between my character and the students, but more than anything I just want to contribute to this project, and I definitely think making lessons is where I could help most.
     
    #19
    Sauteed_Onion and Rhino like this.
  20. Nightblade50

    Nightblade50 Developer of "Delta Origins" Veteran

    Messages:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    4,062
    Location:
    USA
    First Language:
    English, French
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    The second. Hmm, yes, certainly the second.
     
    #20
    Sauteed_Onion likes this.

Share This Page