[IMPROVEMENT] Additional Base Mechanics (as per Request)

Do you want these features?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 57.9%
  • No

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Yes, but not important

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • Total voters
    19

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Description of the Feature:
As per requested I am asking for the addition of base functions that appear as common tropes in the modern JRPG Genre.

Tags: The ability to Tag something with a simple drop down menu and the Tag function added to the System Menu. Essentially like Weapon and Armor-Type but universal. Reasons for this noted below (see Steal and Tags).
Jump and Vanish: The user vanishes from battle and reappears a number of turns later as set by you. For instance, <Vanish 1> would imitate the jump skill from the FF franchise or Fly, Dig, Dive from Pokemon. The actor/enemies do not lose if everyone (or the last) member of their team are Vanished. As opposed to Banished (see below). While vanished (or banished) actors continue to regain HP/MP from Regen or lose it from statuses (Burning, etc). They simply do not appear on the battle field and cannot be targeted.
Banish: Banish works EXACTLY like Vanish except you can set the Banishment until indefinite if you so desire. Ideally, it would be nice to be able to negate it like a state (somehow) with certain skills. Such as adding an ability to Call Back Banished that you could add to certain skills. How it differs from vanished is that if all remaining actors/enemies are banished the battle ends in a victory for the opposing side as if all opposition had been defeated.
Strike Vanished: This is the ability to target and hit a vanished actor and typically inflict more damage to them or drag them back into battle prematurely, whatever effect you want really. Such as "Earthquake" inflicting double damage to Pokemon that have used Dig and Sky Uppercut inflicting double damage to Flying Pokemon.
Steal and Tags: This is the ability to acquire items from your opponent. Ideally, I would like to be able to also give Tags to items, weapons and armor. For Example: <Food> so that you could make a "Steal" skill that only took "Food" Items or armor <Steal Armor: 1>, <Steal Weapon 1>, <Steal Potion 3>, etc.
Absorb Element: Simple absorb mechanics that varies by element. For example: Absorb Fire, Absorb Water, etc.
Reflect Element: Simple reflect mechanics that varies by element. For example: Reflect Thunder, Deflect Physical, Reflect Ice
Reaction Activation: The ability to set skills to activate or apply statuses to an attacker when the inflict a specific type of damage to you. Example: If the Defender is struck with a physical attack, the Attacker takes 12.5% of their MAX HP. Alternatively, if the Defender is struck by a Physical Attack, the Attacker is Poisoned (30%).
Action Buff: Increase Stat(s) of the actor when performing an attack. Such as an attack that raises your ATK by 25% when performed.
Action Debuff: Exactly as Action Buff, except you can lower the actors stats.
Action State ON: Add a state of your choosing to the attacker during an attack against a Defender. Such as the ability to make an attack that makes you go Berserk.
Action State OFF: Remove a state or states of your choosing on an attack against a Defender. Such as an attack that removes poison from the attacker and poisons the Defender.
Target Defender Parameters: The ability for attacks (specifically TP) to raise or lower the Defender's TP.

Code for Implementation:
99% of this is available via Yanfly Scripts. All Hail the puff-ball.

Mockups:
Examples available on Yanfly's Website.

Why is this feature good?
I feel like these are the "Basic" things that people expect to be able to implement in "most" games and what often serves as the first and biggest hurdle for many. Removing it entirely will allow for us to use less plugins (I always want less plugins) and allow the basic functionality and flexibility you would expect from an RPG Maker.

Possible issues with this feature?
Skynet.
 
Last edited:

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
28 views and only one vote that isn't mine. Bump. :p
 

BubbleMatrix82

Norm Rejecting Black Sheep
Veteran
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
163
Reaction score
69
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
After talking to a dev on and off for the last hour, it seems that they really want players to use plugins for this sort of thing. I still voted YES since I agree, they are basic functions.
 

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I am all for plugins for advanced stuff like custom damage equations and skill buy systems. I just think the the above are things which the "average buyer" is going to expect to be able to just do when they DL the program.
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,522
Reaction score
14,255
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I think with that many in one spot you may get muddled results. For instance, I don't see Jump and Vanish as default abilities, as very few games I've played used them. But many games I play use elemental reflection and elemental absorption. Would you care if I made my own thread sometime later on (say in a few days to see how the reaction goes here) for just a couple of these (like say elemental absorption/reflection in it's own suggestion), to maybe unmuddle it some? Just to see if maybe others might be feeling like I do that we have too many ideas in one spot, which might lead to some people unsure how to vote?
 

BubbleMatrix82

Norm Rejecting Black Sheep
Veteran
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
163
Reaction score
69
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I like the idea of bg doing it too because it will test my popularity contest idea too. If he gets lots of votes with similar wording then it just boils down to no or few votes because you are not reputable retro. We will see (given you give consent).
 

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I think with that many in one spot you may get muddled results. For instance, I don't see Jump and Vanish as default abilities, as very few games I've played used them. But many games I play use elemental reflection and elemental absorption. Would you care if I made my own thread sometime later on (say in a few days to see how the reaction goes here) for just a couple of these (like say elemental absorption/reflection in it's own suggestion), to maybe unmuddle it some? Just to see if maybe others might be feeling like I do that we have too many ideas in one spot, which might lead to some people unsure how to vote?
Fire Emblem has jump, Pokemon has jump, Final Fantasy has jump, Yokai Watch has Jump, this game using little RPG Robots I have on my DS uses Jump. Its extremely common. I don't think anything above is "muddled" I put in a fair amount of effort into organizing this. :\

The only thing that is "standard" that I didn't include was the ability to make an attack Critically Hit automatically or more often.

EDIT: I was told that Golden Sun also has a jump/vanish mechanic (but I haven't played those games).
 

BubbleMatrix82

Norm Rejecting Black Sheep
Veteran
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
163
Reaction score
69
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Fire Emblem has jump, Pokemon has jump, Final Fantasy has jump, Yokai Watch has Jump, this game using little RPG Robots I have on my DS uses Jump. Its extremely common. I don't think anything above is "muddled" I put in a fair amount of effort into organizing this. :\

The only thing that is "standard" that I didn't include was the ability to make an attack Critically Hit automatically or more often.
Hey man, bg has been pretty cool. Cut him some slack. I think he should try reposting it. If nothing else, it would be an interesting social experiment to see how they react to an insider vs an outsider.
 

mlogan

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
15,354
Reaction score
8,533
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Retro Boy He doesn't mean it's unorganized. Simply that, it may deter some from voting as they would feel some of these would be necessary and not others, but because they can't pick and choose, they may not want to vote at all.
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,522
Reaction score
14,255
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
What I mean was you have 15 ideas in one thread (I think it's 15...wasn't sure how to count some of them as some of them look like 2 ideas in one line). And do keep in mind some people will not have played those games so will not see the point of it (for instance, I don't play Pokémon, so ideas from that game mean zilch to me).

What I was proposing was taking 1 - 2 of them, and separating them into another thread. The reason I suggested doing it was just so I could draw attention to a couple of the ideas at a time too, and because I doubt you have to time to make one thread for each idea (all 15 or so of them). Plus, I'd refer back to your thread as well, so that maybe I'd draw more votes your way?
 

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Its not really a contest. I don't care really, so long as the stuff is implemented. But its not just "Pokemon" or "Yokai Watch" this is a standard mechanic in every FF game since, what? FF3?

The "vanish" mechanic I mean, and just because something would be implemented does not mean you have to use it. I imagine lots of people don't use "Preserve TP" but its still in there (thankfully).

EDIT: The Tags implementation was because I "thought" that would make using many mechanics simpler for early users. "This is a Potion" so I can make a passive that gives me a bonus when I use a "Potion Item" while this is a "Food" Item so I don't get a bonus when I use that; but both are healing items, etc. That kind of thing. We have something like it with the "Skill Types" already, so I figured it would be simple to implement (figured, I don't know). It would also add a great deal of depth to the engine as a hole without making it difficult on new users.
 

Archeia

Level 99 Demi-fiend
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
15,141
Reaction score
15,473
First Language
Filipino
Primarily Uses
RMMZ
I think the problem with this suggestion (which is also my fault) is that its all over the place.
For example, you have map mechanics and battle mechanics in a single topic. I suggest to make them more "categorized" that it's easier for people who care about battle systems more vote, and those who want more map-related systems vote for as well.
 

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
What map mechanics?

These are all barrle mechanics?
 

BubbleMatrix82

Norm Rejecting Black Sheep
Veteran
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
163
Reaction score
69
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The issue you have is that a lot people here aren't using the engine because it's junk. They are either using Yanfly or they are using an in house CBS.
 

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Its cool, I can't blame you. I didn't notice until you quoted me that I wrote "Barrel Mechanics" instead of "Battle Mechanics." Must have too much Donkey Kong on the brain. :aswt:
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,522
Reaction score
14,255
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
So I started to play with the Absorb mechanics mentioned here, and ran into a problem. What should the math be for calculating absorption? That is probably why many of these features are not in the editor, as there is no agreement on how to handle the math. Let me explain:

For elemental absorption, the engine treats all element rates which are negative as absorption. So we need a way to flip element rates to negative. So, should we do it by:

1: Allowing you to set a negative element rate.The problem with that is a negative * a negative is a positive, so two absorption spells (or equipment which grants absorption) would cancel out and you'd take damage again. This is unavoidable by the rules of math.

2: Allowing you to set an element to just flat out absorb it, at your current element rate? This might be the easiest, but then someone who was resistant to fire (say they take 50% fire damage) would now only absorb 50% of all Fire damage. Does that seem fair? Some would say no.

3: Allowing you to set an element to absorb at a flat rate (+x%). This would override all current element rates. Now though, that mage that is weak to Fire damage can just equip one item, and suddenly absorb all Fire damage at the same rate as everyone else.

4: Elemental absorb means your element rate decreases by 200%. This is what Yanfly does (at least in ACE, not sure about MV). Feels fairest, but this does mean someone who takes 300% damage from Fire, would, with an element absorb state to Fire, still take 100% Fire damage and not absorb anything! Might confuse players.

So, as you can see, there are 4 solutions, and all have issues. This is probably why it is a plug-in instead of built in, just so players can pick and choose which method they prefer, instead of us picking one for them and forcing it on others.
 

RetroBoy

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
378
Reaction score
261
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I think you're over-complicating it. Absorb Fire means you recover HP equal to the Fire Damage you would have otherwise taken.
 

ashikai

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
456
Reaction score
343
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
So element absorb is more like damage = null, damage = absorb value?
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,522
Reaction score
14,255
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@RetroBoy : You may wish to look at the damage formula then, because what I posted is what the problem is with that idea. See, the damage formula works by calculating the damage you would take, then if it is a healing skill it negates it. So all healing is negative damage. That is the way the engine is set up.

So, what you suggest is to just flip the damage negative then for absorption, so that it is healing instead (that is exactly what heal the damage you should have taken means). So what if the player has a Fire absorb equipment on, then gets hit with a fire absorb state? Then with what you propose, the engine will see to flip the damage once for the equipment and once for the state, which, since a negative applied 2x = a positive means you will take damage again from Fire now.

That's what I meant when I said it is a little more complicated than just heal the damage you would have taken, and is probably why they chose to leave it as a plug-in, so developers can choose the method they wish (Plus, what do you mean by would have taken? Before resistance? After? All those things have to be thought about, and some people want it one way and some want it the other.)

However...I do think better control on elemental rates could help. If we had that, we could mimic absorption ourselves, so you are onto something. Just know it is probably not just as simple as slap a feature that says absorb Fire (or whatever element you wish), but may come down to having to be careful with your math and element rates.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

Couple hours of work. Might use in my game as a secret find or something. Not sure. Fancy though no? :D
Holy stink, where have I been? Well, I started my temporary job this week. So less time to spend on game design... :(
Cartoonier cloud cover that better fits the art style, as well as (slightly) improved blending/fading... fading clouds when there are larger patterns is still somewhat abrupt for some reason.
Do you Find Tilesetting or Looking for Tilesets/Plugins more fun? Personally I like making my tileset for my Game (Cretaceous Park TM) xD
How many parameters is 'too many'??

Forum statistics

Threads
105,868
Messages
1,017,066
Members
137,576
Latest member
SadaSoda
Top