Innovative Combat Design

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Zizka, Sep 11, 2019 at 7:19 AM.

  1. Zizka

    Zizka Veteran Veteran

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    So I wanted to create a battle system which revolved around learning how to type (not unlike 'Typing of the Dead'). Unfortunately, doing so would involve too much programming which makes it out of the question. Ideas can only take you so far if you don't have programming knowledge (or very little of it).

    There's no way I would fall back to the default battle system that's been around since 1986 since Final Fantasy (and its various iterations). To me, it's something stale and ultimately meaningless. In my opinion, a battle system is a good half of a good rpg along with a polished narrative. So that's out of the question.

    I therefore need to design something which is original and hold back as much as possible on scripting as that's the ultimate limitation when you think of it.

    Have you designed combat in a way which is original (as much as something can be original)? Something that strays away from Dragon Quest of classical Final Fantasy. If so, please do tell about it, I'd be very interested.
     
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  2. NinjaKittyProductions

    NinjaKittyProductions Professional Murder Hobos Veteran

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    One of my first projects had a solo hero. Since I am a D&D and Pathfinder nut, I designed my combat system around die rolls. Each fight was scripted (common events that is) with numerous pages and checks. However, to keep things simple, the character never fought more than one enemy at a time.

    There are so many things you can do with variable and common events that while it might not look pretty (the setup that is), they can be fully functional and work wonders.

    What kind of system are you looking for then since you do not want to go the whole turn based combat? There are a couple of ARPG scripts out there, tactical turn based, and if I remember correctly there are even a few rhythm based combat systems floating around.
     
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  3. Zizka

    Zizka Veteran Veteran

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    I'm not really looking for something in particular. I'm exploring ideas which will hopefully mean I can end up with something which interests me while being easily doable with programming. Ideas vs pragmatism, dream vs reality. I'm interested to know how other people end up being creative in dealing with encounters.

    Dice rolls is something I'm considering at the moment. The following are mockups:

    [​IMG]

    I like the miniature aesthetic. I'd like to have enemies move around on a grid (turn-based) but my concern would be that this wouldn't fly as a script request.

    I'd like to use D6 as the core mechanic:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'd like to give to stick to a D6, it could be done if I stick to simple rules.

    The grid movement probably makes it impossible however due to programming. It would involve a lot of work for the A.I.

    Also the issue would be to make exploration phases interesting so I might have to drop this idea as well.

    As you can see, I get easily carried away and end up with ideas which don't end up feasible by a programmer.
     
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  4. NinjaKittyProductions

    NinjaKittyProductions Professional Murder Hobos Veteran

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    So to some degree a tactical turn based. Your team goes, makes their moves, performs their actions and then the enemy goes?
    If so, @Embxii is working on an amazing plugin for tactical rpgs. It can be found here:
    https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/tactics-system-0-6.97023/

    It already comes with lots of features and they are still adding more.
    As for using d6 dice for rolls and the what not, a lot of that can be done in the damage formula. You could even have skills run a common event that rolls a d6 and stores it in a variable that you can then use for other skills. I have seen it on here ( cannot remember where sorry) where someone had a d6 rolling system that would show the dice actually rolling on the screen.
     
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  5. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Zizka 'Game Mechanics Design' is for looking at aspects of game play at a more conceptual level. "How do I...?" (implementation) questions belong in the Support forum for the engine you are using.

    That means that this discussion must be general, not tied to a specific game, therefore you cannot restrict it only to what you want. That gives you 3 options. Let it be general in which case this thread can stay here; be about only your game, so I would move it to Games Ideas and Prototypes; or - if you want to know how to implement a particular idea - move it to Plugin Requests. Please post and say which you want.
     
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  6. Zizka

    Zizka Veteran Veteran

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    @Kes:
    At this point in time, I feel like moving the thread is premature. The purpose of the thread being to discuss what other people put in place regarding their battle systems. If the thread were to be moved, we'd miss out on any further development (or at the very least I would).

    @NinjaKittyProductions
    Great message. It might be what I am looking for. I'd need to determine how to use the dice in my actual mechanic.

    If you feel like sharing, let me know how you introduced it in yours.
     
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  7. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Zizka That's fine, but it must stay a general discussion, you can't keep bringing it back to your game and your particular requirements. Therefore if @NinjaKittyProductions does want to share that mechanic at the level of actual implementation then it will have to be by pm. If, on the other hand, they were to share the design considerations which led them to their current state of game play, then it could be here. If someone else gives a response which is not relevant tp your needs, or maybe clashes with what you have in mind, that's fine, just ignore it. It might be perfect for someone else.
     
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  8. MetalKing11417

    MetalKing11417 Villager Member

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    On a more standard RPG combat design, one idea I have come up with is that when the player uses an elemental spell, they take on the traits of the element of said spell in question via a state, giving them various elemental strengths and weaknesses corresponding to said element. The goal of this is to force the player to put more thought into which skills the player uses on an enemy than simply whaling on the enemy with a spell they are weak against, because by using said spell, they are opening themselves up to new vulnerabilities. Depending on the game you desire to make this can apply to both the player's characters and enemies (though if a target already has elemental strengths/weaknesses to exploit that you wish to stack, you will likely want Yanfly's element core.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 3:39 AM
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  9. Harosata

    Harosata Dramatic Lightning's BFF Veteran

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    For my current project, the battle system is built from the Default with scripts to change the targeting system; using Jojo as an example, the skills are divided into Stand, Hamon and Skills. Stand skills can only affect Stands and Hamon can only affect Vampires (Skills can affect all types of enemies but don't deal much damage), so using an AoE Hamon skill will only damage Vampires.

    However, Hybrid enemies (aka a Vampire with a Stand) can be targeted by both Hamon and Stands. In addition, Stand Skills will decrease their MP instead of their HP (if MP is gone, it deals HP damage instead), which can affect how the enemy acts.

    ---

    Aside from skills, the other concept of the battle system is something like a Pickpocket battle. Only one type of enemy can be "swiped", with EXP and Gold added when escaping based on how much HP they have left. To counter this, the other type of enemy (that you can't gain EXP from damaging) will join in the battle based on how much HP the swiped enemies have remaining.

    ===

    Another concept I fiddled with is "Positional". This mainly uses a Free Formation (Himeworks?) script that allows you to place your party in empty spaces, plus faces/battlers to clarify the positions of your actors. At a basic level, battle groups are based on index numbers, so enemy skills can be designed to launch small explosions or random attacks that can hit a person or nothing.

    On the next level, actors already have 4 spaces by default, but enemies have a screen_x they are assigned to during troop initiation. For example, a fixed turret that only shoots straight down might have a screen_x of 20, placing it in front of the left-most player that has a range of 0-120, and thus only attack that space regardless of the position of the player. Granted, someone already designed area-targeting, but one has a general idea how they made that.
     
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  10. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    I use a heavily modified "Free Turn Battle" or "Instant Turn Battle". It is STILL turn-based with the feel of classical RPG. But the twist is that the moment you pick an action, it immediately executed. Allowing you to control which one you want to move first. Buff, debuff, then attack. Unlike many turn system which relies on agility and any other turn order (ATB/CTB/OTB/you name it). The only "downside" is that the system does not have agility stat so it can not represent agile character very well.

    And from my personal experience, it's the easiest combat system to develop and to balance. It has less RNG factor and required less attention while still making it challenging.

    Another innovation I tried to come up is a two-rows battle system. You have two rows consisting of 2 actors each row with the following rules:
    • Front row is where the attacker and the back row is the supporter.
    • The actor is free to switch places as long as they haven't yet take action.
    • Front row is able to do a normal attack and they're the main damage dealer.
    • Back row can not do a normal attack, but they will have support skill to support the party.
    • Every actor will have a different skill set when changing place back and forth.
    • The front row will have more aggro (i.e, has a chance to get attacked more often) while in the back row, they will get attacked less, has defense bonus (in case of AoE attack), and passive regeneration.
    • Edit: If the front actor is knocked out or stunned, it will automatically switch place. So you will always have two attackers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 8:13 AM
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