firestalker

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I have just tested and I was able to change the turn order by raising the agility of the actor. Please start a new project and recreate the error in as a few steps as possible. Then let me know the steps you took to recreate the error.

Okay so I started a new project and only put in the Core Engine, Battle Engine, and your ITB...  Same thing.  I'm entirely sure it's an error.  It could be working properly for all I know.  The first actor has 32 AGI, the others members all have 5 AGI, the Enemies have 5 AGI as well.  The order starts out like this: Actor1 > Enemy1 > Enemy2 > Actor4 > Actor3 > Actor2.  The second round order is exactly the same.  So on and so forth.  It just doesn't change at all...


I thought if you have a higher AGI then you get to attack more often [more turns].


 I guess that's not really this systems deal.  From what I can gather, this system just changes the order but not the actual turns.  So a person with high AGI will attack first, but they attack the same amount of times as the rest of them.  So basically the fixed order is: Actor1 > Enemy1 > Enemy2 > Actor4 > Actor3 > Actor2


This order doesn't change unless you give an actor/enemy more AGI then the order could be something like: Enemy1 > Actor1 > Enemy2 > Actor4 > Actor3 > Actor2


Notice that only thing that changed was the order of the highest AGI...  The turn still runs through the order regardless.  So basically you only changed when the actor has his turn not how many turns he has.


I guess I was thinking of something else when I heard that the system was based on the AGI.


So it's basically like the Default Battle System only instead of entering all the commands at once you enter them one at a time...  But everything else is basically the same.


I guess I'll have to go back to the CTB system to get the desired effect, but I find it so hard to control. :headshake: :stare: I wish there was a system like the CTB but like this ITB.....  Maybe that's impossible?
 

DreamX

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Okay so I started a new project and only put in the Core Engine, Battle Engine, and your ITB...  Same thing.  I'm entirely sure it's an error.  It could be working properly for all I know.  The first actor has 32 AGI, the others members all have 5 AGI, the Enemies have 5 AGI as well.  The order starts out like this: Actor1 > Enemy1 > Enemy2 > Actor4 > Actor3 > Actor2.  The second round order is exactly the same.  So on and so forth.  It just doesn't change at all...


I thought if you have a higher AGI then you get to attack more often [more turns].


 I guess that's not really this systems deal.  From what I can gather, this system just changes the order but not the actual turns.  So a person with high AGI will attack first, but they attack the same amount of times as the rest of them.  So basically the fixed order is: Actor1 > Enemy1 > Enemy2 > Actor4 > Actor3 > Actor2


This order doesn't change unless you give an actor/enemy more AGI then the order could be something like: Enemy1 > Actor1 > Enemy2 > Actor4 > Actor3 > Actor2


Notice that only thing that changed was the order of the highest AGI...  The turn still runs through the order regardless.  So basically you only changed when the actor has his turn not how many turns he has.


I guess I was thinking of something else when I heard that the system was based on the AGI.


So it's basically like the Default Battle System only instead of entering all the commands at once you enter them one at a time...  But everything else is basically the same.


I guess I'll have to go back to the CTB system to get the desired effect, but I find it so hard to control. :headshake: :stare: I wish there was a system like the CTB but like this ITB.....  Maybe that's impossible?

Yes, that's how it supposed to work. Agility changes order but not the amount of times a battler can act.


That doesn't mean I can't add what you're wanting to the plugin, though.


Give me an example of how to decide whether a battler gets an extra action from their agility and I'll see if I can put it in as an option.
 

firestalker

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Yes, that's how it supposed to work. Agility changes order but not the amount of times a battler can act.


That doesn't mean I can't add what you're wanting to the plugin, though.


Give me an example of how to decide whether a battler gets an extra action from their agility and I'll see if I can put it in as an option.

Okay...  Let's see...  I wish I knew a little JS so I can know what's doable and whats not.  But here goes.


You see I've been thinking about it a lot and I have ideas but nothing that seems plausible...  Or they're way too messy [a lot of math and stuff].


One idea was to make the AGI number absolute and have them make the order from there.


Like:


A1 = 5


A2 = 6


A3 = 7


But that would just be like the ITB all over again.


Then I thought maybe make it so that the AGI is like a counter [or similar]:


LIKE:


A1 = 10


A2 = 6


E1 = 7


  -  After every action the actor loses a quarter of his remaining AGI.  After every round [Turn] all actors gain a half of their max AGI back.


  -  The order would be something like this: A1 > A1 > E1 > A2


Essentially:


A1 = 10 AGI


Attacks


A1 = 7.5 AGI


Attacks


A1 = 5 AGI


E1 = 7 AGI


Attacks


E1 = 4.5 AGI


A2 = 6 AGI


Attacks


A2 = 3.5 AGI


End Turn


A1 = 5 + 5 AGI = 10 AGI


A2 = 3.5 + 3 AGI = 6.5 AGI


E1 = 4.5 + 3.5 AGI = 9 AGI


This is the messy one...  But I also thought that the subtractor could randomized and maybe even controlled by command, formula, or call?  As you can see though....  this has a lot of holes and a big potential to be really really buggy!


Honestly, I'm not smart enough to figure out a good way to do this.  I know what I would like to happen, but have no idea how to achieve it.  Sorry...  Even looking at my ideas again I cringe at them.  There's no way they would work....  It's extremely frustrating....


Anyway...  Thanks.  I don't really see how to get it to work well, but thanks for offering.


EDIT:  You the actor with the highest AGI doesn't even have to attack twice in a row...  Maybe he just gets inserted into a high spot in the order next time through.


LIKE:


A1 > E1 > E2 > A4 > A3 > A2


Cast Haste on A1 = 2x AGI for 3 turns


A1 > E1 > E2 > A1 > A4 > A3 > A1 > A2


or something....  Maybe....  Just a thought.
 
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kovak

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That's how charge turn battle works.
 

emelian65

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Question, as you add a let's say 'reward' for hitting an enemy weakness, can you do the same with critical hits?


And also can the inverse being done, hitting an enemy resistance/reflect/absorb erase the action of the actors or enemy for that round, is that possible?
 

kovak

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EDIT:  You the actor with the highest AGI doesn't even have to attack twice in a row...  Maybe he just gets inserted into a high spot in the order next time through. 




Your entire idea is what a CTB is, it has nothing to do with ITB which uses AGI as an initiative for turn order only.


It would requires ticks and as far as i know it's not easy nor stable to work with ticks and requires lots of time and effort to be implemented without screwing rpg maker and allow compatibility with other plugins.
 

firestalker

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Your entire idea is what a CTB is, it has nothing to do with ITB which uses AGI as an initiative for turn order only.


It would requires ticks and as far as i know it's not easy nor stable to work with ticks and requires lots of time and effort to be implemented without screwing rpg maker and allow compatibility with other plugins.

But the turn order thing is way too predictable and boring....  If only CTB wasn't so unstable and hard to balance.


But why does it require ticks?  What are ticks?  How are ticks determined and used?


Also, how does the ITB figure out the order?  If it's AGI based then how does it work?


Maybe I figure out something if I know how it works...
 

DreamX

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But the turn order thing is way too predictable and boring....  If only CTB wasn't so unstable and hard to balance.


But why does it require ticks?  What are ticks?  How are ticks determined and used?


Also, how does the ITB figure out the order?  If it's AGI based then how does it work?


Maybe I figure out something if I know how it works...

IMO it's not boring, but predictable was what I was going for. I wanted something faster than the default turn battle system but also something easy to predict (and thus balance). It's hard to balance without being able to predict what will happen.


The order is just the battlers with the greatest agility to the lowest agility. It is recalculated after every battler action to account for agility changes. After every battler has used all of their actions (by default 1 each unless you've added more actions to them), the turn ends.


Well, if I were to add extra actions from agility, what I would do is to compare a battler's agility to the average agility of all of the battlers. If it's high enough over the average then get 1+ more actions (could add a random element so it's not guaranteed).


Anyway I don't know how practical that would be off the top of my head, but that's an idea. I can't guarantee it'll get added so you may want to still look into learning more about CTB so you can balance it the way you want.
 
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kovak

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If i were a programmer i'd give a better answer, but this is pretty much how it works on paper:

Think that ticks are values that are used as reference for the CTB system.

  • You gain an amount of ticks based on your AGI value by default
  • There is a invisible gaugue that's filled based on those ticks, pretty much like in ATB, but faster (which i find way more enjoyable)
  • The higher your AGI the faster you stack ticks

This is how you determine turn order and since it won't use turns - though it pauses the overal stacking when an actor has to choose an action - you have some issues with regeneration and buff duration, they both need to be based on the same tick system or be tied with action being ended by an actor. In both cases buff duration and regeneration will end faster than the intended or miscalculate its functions if the plugin was not made to support such formula, the CTB will be fine, the other plugins won't. 

  • EDIT: The duration of buffs is not based on the caster, it's based on the target and that's something that needs to be solved, maybe it's harder that i can predict.



ITB works in a simpler way - You compare the AGI value of actors and enemies in combat and then they are placed in line, this forms a cycle. If the AGI value of any of them is changed the cycle will change only when the last actor/enemy in the current cycle has ended its turn.


@DreamX  I don't think extra action is needed to be implemented, the Action Times+ solves it IMO. If you're going to do something like this i'd recommend to use AGI as a way to use the Action Times + to give and actor/ enemy a chance to gain an extra action on its turn.


Something Like Actions Times+ = user.agi/100
 
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firestalker

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IMO it's not boring, but predictable was what I was going for. I wanted something faster than the default turn battle system but also something easy to predict (and thus balance). It's hard to balance without being able to predict what will happen.


The order is just the battlers with the greatest agility to the lowest agility. It is recalculated after every battler action to account for agility changes. After every battler has used all of their actions (by default 1 each unless you've added more actions to them), the turn ends.


Well, if I were to add extra actions from agility, what I would do is to compare a battler's agility to the average agility of all of the battlers. If it's high enough over the average then get 1+ more actions (could add a random element so it's not guaranteed).


Anyway I don't know how practical that would be off the top of my head, but that's an idea. I can't guarantee it'll get added so you may want to still look into learning more about CTB so you can balance it the way you want.

What if you make it so that until an actor's AGI is 2x the lowest AGI in the party then no changes happen.  After 2x then that actor gets slight boost in the order.  So they get to go every third/second turn instead of every fourth AND in their original spot as well [effectively two attacks in a round].  That can continue until that actor gets 3x the lowest AGI and then they get another boost [every second spot and third spot and their original spot - though this would break the battle regardless of system you use].  So if the actor has 2x the actors AGI, at the check before an actor chooses an action, then they have a 0.5 chance of preempting their action and taking another action before them [You can make so that the chance is 100%, but that is decreased by the difference in AGI between the two: 30 - 15 = .50% chance].  Maybe have a +/- for the 2x AGI so it's not so rigid.


What I'm thinking about is for Spells or Skills that add a Haste or Slow like effect.


How does the plugin determine which actor goes first, second, third, when they all have the same AGI?
 
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DreamX

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What if you make it so that until an actor's AGI is 2x the lowest AGI in the party then no changes happen.  After 2x then that actor gets slight boost in the order.  So they get to go every third/second turn instead of every fourth AND in their original spot as well [effectively two attacks in a round].  That can continue until that actor gets 3x the lowest AGI and then they get another boost [every second spot and third spot and their original spot - though this would break the battle regardless of system you use].  So if the actor has 2x the actors AGI then they have a 0.5 chance of preempting their action and taking another action before them.  Maybe have a +/- for the 2x AGI so it's not so rigid.


What I'm thinking about is for Spells or Skills that add a Haste or Slow like effect.


How does the plugin determine which actor goes first, second, third, when they all have the same AGI?

Interesting idea. If something that like gets implemented, it'll be made just as an option, though for anyone else wondering.


When the agility is the same, priority is given to the enemy. If they're both actors or both enemies, though, it'll go by id instead. I guess I could make it random, though.
 

firestalker

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Interesting idea. If something that like gets implemented, it'll be made just as an option, though for anyone else wondering.


When the agility is the same, priority is given to the enemy. If they're both actors or both enemies, though, it'll go by id instead. I guess I could make it random, though.

I was wondering since the order seems to be, for me anyway: id1, id4, id3, id2


It always seems to be ascending instead of descending.


I wasn't sure if that was supposed to be the way it went.... 

So if the actor has 2x the actors AGI, at the check before an actor chooses an action, then they have a 0.5 chance of preempting their action and taking another action before them [You can make so that the chance is 100%, but that is decreased by the difference in AGI between the two: 30 - 15 = 50% chance].  Maybe have a +/- for the 2x AGI so it's not so rigid.

I made a slight edit to my original idea...  Maybe this would be a little easier or something?    Let's say the AGI is 10 and 7... That's 70% so the higher actor has a 30% chance of preempting....  Maybe?  Or make it so that they can only preempt if they have a certain state or State Notetag on?  That might make it easier...  Maybe?  Make the notetag have the percentage in it or something....
 
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emelian65

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Ok I was playing with the turn order position and I got this.

add.png





 
Not signed in




 








Is there a way to add a window that says something like 'Turn Order', or 'Next Action' as a window on the black rectangle, I mean I move my window so it may be something not all may want, but it oculd be something extra.


And this.

space.png





 
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The red lines mark the space created each time thanks to I guess Yanfly Battle Engine Core,I suppose it could be very limiting to add a feature for this as I decided to move the windows there to see how it looks, but just the question really.
 
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kovak

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Both are not bugs.


1st one is up to DreamX :v


2nd one is something you can solve using a HUD plugin.
 
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DreamX

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2nd: Probably a bug or something like that, when using Yanlfy Battle A.I. Core, the enemy extra action only work +2, with this I mean that if the character has 1 extra action he only has one turn, but when he has 2 extra action, he gets 1 extra turn, if he has 4 extra action he actually only acts 3 times. don't know if I explained myself, and this only happens with Battle Ai of Yanfly.

It's working for me, with Yanfly's Battle A.I. Core on. How are you adding the extra actions? I tested with states and it's working correctly.

Ok sorry for double posting, but I found another incopatibility with Yanfly Battle A.I. the enemy doesn't get extra turn if hitting player weakness, I deactivate it and everything works as normal, so for the mean time I'm going to not use Yanfly Batler A.I.


You Plug-In is still as awsome as ever.

This also worked for me.


If you're using a custom AI condition thing then I'll need it to test.

Question, as you add a let's say 'reward' for hitting an enemy weakness, can you do the same with critical hits?


And also can the inverse being done, hitting an enemy resistance/reflect/absorb erase the action of the actors or enemy for that round, is that possible?



Yea, I'll do that in the next version.

Is there a way to add a window that says something like 'Turn Order', or 'Next Action' as a window on the black rectangle, I mean I move my window so it may be something not all may want, but it oculd be something extra.



In the next version I'll add an option to put an icon on the window so you let players know that it is the turn order.

Always coming up with things I didn't know I needed!


Anyways, I was wondering if you could have a demo or something visual so that I can have an idea of what I'm doing for setting up the visual turn order. 



Here's an example sheet.


ExTurnOrder 2 3.png


Filename: ExTurn Order 2 3.png


Example notetags for an actor to use index 2:


<ITBSheet:ExTurnOrder 2 3>
<ITBSheetIndex: 2>


v1.6:


Fixes battle status window jitter (so far as I've tested)
 

emelian65

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It's working for me, with Yanfly's Battle A.I. Core on. How are you adding the extra actions? I tested with states and it's working correctly.


This also worked for me.


If you're using a custom AI condition thing then I'll need it to test.


Yea, I'll do that in the next version.


In the next version I'll add an option to put an icon on the window so you let players know that it is the turn order.





 






 







 







 







1



That could be the problem, I wasn't using States to add the Extra Actions I was only using Traits. I'll test it and let you know, maybe that was the problem.


The second is happening in each action like if the enemy has.


<ai priority>


Always: Fire, Lowest HP%


</ai priority>.


It should always cast fire no matter what but when it hits the actor weakness it only acts once, now the enemy doesn't have any action inside its action table, as Yanfly Battle A.I. completely overrides that table.


Edit: I test it again, it gains an extra turn from what I can see in the Icon window, but it doesn't act a second time. this is of course only using the Ai priority tag and leaving the action table of the enemy empty.


Edit 2: Test it again with the action table with some skill, still doesn't seem to want to act
 
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ashikai

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I think I spent a month trying to hack a system like this together with three different plugins... I'm SOOOO happy to find them all together in a nicer, neater package! T^T


Thank you for this plugin! <3
 

DreamX

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That could be the problem, I wasn't using States to add the Extra Actions I was only using Traits. I'll test it and let you know, maybe that was the problem.


The second is happening in each action like if the enemy has.


<ai priority>


Always: Fire, Lowest HP%


</ai priority>.


It should always cast fire no matter what but when it hits the actor weakness it only acts once, now the enemy doesn't have any action inside its action table, as Yanfly Battle A.I. completely overrides that table.


Edit: I test it again, it gains an extra turn from what I can see in the Icon window, but it doesn't act a second time. this is of course only using the Ai priority tag and leaving the action table of the enemy empty.


Edit 2: Test it again with the action table with some skill, still doesn't seem to want to act

Hi. Let me know what you find out about the states thing.


I seemed to have fixed the second problem in the latest update. Hopefully that will fix all Battle AI Core issues. Remember to set the AI Level in Yanfly's plugin how you want. If it's under 100 there's a chance that it may not use an attack, so keep that in mind when testing.


I've also added a custom popup for VE Damage Popups, which I highly recommend. It's for when you get an extra action from hitting an enemy's weakness.


Untitled.png


I have an extension for Victor's plugin here to make it compatible with Yanfly Battle Engine Core.


For future updates, I will try to implement the following suggestions and more:


Getting critical hit gains extra action
Hitting resistance erases action


Extra Actions from having a lot of agility


Auto-generate icons


Use text names instead of icons for turn order window


Put an extra icon in the front of turn window, can be whatever you want.


All of these will be optional and disabled by default.
 
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VHStapes

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I tried so hard to get CTB to act this way, THANK YOU so much for your work. I basically got frustrated with the difficulty in balancing the other battle systems and lost interest in RPG Maker altogether for awhile.
 

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