Is bad ending for masochist?

[Mike]

I had this thought before, but it was swept by greater ideas on different subject, though after posting at 'fav. type of ending', this came back to my mind.

Seems like some people enjoy bad ending, where you got cheated and unjustified even after the work they have put into completing the rpg game, which could be very very time consuming.

You can see based on my avatar, that I'm coming from the other isle, I enjoy it much when a story makes me go all fluffy and puff - puff and roll in excitement and joy because of super-duper-improbable-happy-end, where everyone just got mind-raped and brainwashed into loving each other by the power of deux machina, is given to me.

So yea, you masochist out there, go ahead justify your explicit fetish here.

Why do you like bad ending?

 

[Milkdud]

Why do you like bad ending?

Because it suits the story being told.

 

[Dalph]

No, bad endings are for realists.

As I said on another thread, people love tragedy (even if they say the opposite).

A movie or a videogame that has a bitter ending will certainly leave the mark more than one with an happy ending (the feelings are stronger!), this is the truth and has nothing to do with masochism or sadism.

People love well told stories and love also to be amazed and touched by a sad ending.

I'm for neutral (and open) endings however.

 

[zacheatscrackers]

I'm a big fan of bad endings, since it displays the gravity of a situation realistically, and it shows an interesting what-if if the protagonists happen to REALLY Frick up.

Of course, good endings are always just fine for me.

 

[Mike]

No, bad endings are for realists.

As I said on another thread, people love tragedy (even if they say the opposite).

A movie or a videogame that has a bitter ending will certainly leave the mark more than one with an happy ending (the feelings are stronger!), this is the truth and has nothing to do with masochism or sadism.

People love well told stories and love also to be amazed and touched by a sad ending.

I'm for neutral (and open) endings however.

So realist accepts the media called entertainment and go for the bad outcomes? Seems like realists are having too good kind of life. .-.

The feeling is stronger to some people could be because it stabs and shred your heart and left a mark there like a tattoo or somekind, and it's hard to get rid of it just like the saying, "the more you try to forget, the more you remember", so are you saying that they say they like it due to physiological effect caused by their ego "what I have is what I'm proud of / what I like", and since they couldn't unhave it, they like/proud of it?

Well stories loved by anyone though.

 

[AngelGrace]

I don't think it's really about getting that "bad ending", I think it's more about the story feeling real.

A good story gets you involved with the characters, makes you care what happens to them.  With a good ending, you're happy, yes, but you feel somewhat cheated; it's like they all suffered and now it all goes away.

There's two kinds of bad endings, IMO

The "Not perfect" end: The good guys won, in the end, but they lost a lot along the way, and the worlds forever changed for it. This is the best kind of ending, as far as I'm concerned; it shakes up the status quo, and in the end, it really just feels like the beginning of a new story.

The "true bad" end: The 'good guys' either lost, or their victory came at such a price it tastes as bitter as defeat. This ending tends to be very emotional and hits you the hardest; sure, the people you root for are still alive, but they're not happy, and you want that happy ending for them, so it plays on your connection to the character.

 

[Dalph]

So realist accepts the media called entertainment and go for the bad outcomes? Seems like realists are having too good kind of life. .-.

The feeling is stronger to some people could be because it stabs and shred your heart and left a mark there like a tattoo or somekind, and it's hard to get rid of it just like the saying, "the more you try to forget, the more you remember", so are you saying that they say they like it due to physiological effect caused by their ego "what I have is what I'm proud of / what I like", and since they couldn't unhave it, they like/proud of it?

Well stories loved by anyone though.

It still has more sense than to be a bunch of masochists as you suggest man. XD

 

[kerbonklin]

Bad (negative) endings can be amazing. A strange but excellent example was Conker's Bad Fur Day.

Spoiler

The game starts out with Conker sitting on a kingdom's throne, upset and surrounded by people he doesn't like. Trying to get home from drinking at a bar, he makes a wrong turn walking and gets lost into another kingdom where he does things for money trying to survive and rescue his girlfriend. In the end his girlfriend dies and he's given one wish by the programmers (breaking the 4th wall) so he wishes for a katana to kill the antagonist. His girlfriend remains dead and he's asked to become their new king, but once again he hates the people around him just like before, forever being miserable. He goes back to drinking at the bar, but then walks the correct way home afterwards.

It's pretty powerful stuff.

 

[Mike]

@AngleGrace

Having a 'real' story doesn't mean that it can't end well. When the pro's outweigh the cons, such outcome is consider good or better. Good ending doesn't necessarily cheat the user when explained thoroughly.

Your 'not perfect' bad ending seems more like an open ending where the story can still go on and no conclusion can't be made yet, therefore good or bad would be subject to argument. 

@Dalph

I do have to agree with that. This does feel as if I'm ranting about people enjoying bad ending stories. It makes me want to make their life story to be bad since hey, don't they like it and want to be connected? And the best way to connect with other people is by experiencing their joy and sadness. : p

Edit:

@kerbonklin

How is that negative? The man found enlightenment at the end, which is a very rare gift. People with kingdom, partner in life, or shield don't necessary get enlightenment, bringing their ignorance to their death.

Cross that, I missread the storyline.

 

[EternalShadow]

I would actually phrase it as a 'sad' ending, not a 'bad' ending. A 'bad' ending would be something that didn't fit the story at all, or felt way too disconnected, etc (Bridge to Terabithia, for example...) but a 'sad' ending would be a 'realist' ending in a sad story.

 

[AngelGrace]

I would actually phrase it as a 'sad' ending, not a 'bad' ending. A 'bad' ending would be something that didn't fit the story at all, or felt way too disconnected, etc (Bridge to Terabithia, for example...) but a 'sad' ending would be a 'realist' ending in a sad story.

The ending of Bridge to Terabithia made perfect sense.

 

[Mike]

@HotFireLegend

Good point, why of course, sad x happy and bad x good are on different context with. There's not much impact, but I see endings under a new light now. Thanks for the pitch in. Thanks for the others also. : D

And true, if the story depict to be a happy story the realist ending would be happy ending, and otherwise, but what if scenario of the story is being uncertain and could go either way. On individual level, wouldn't the person looking forward the story to have sad ending be considered sadist/masochist. 

 

[Makio-Kuta]

I think when Dalph says that realists like unhappy endings he is referring to the very obvious trend for unrealistically 'happy' endings in media. Typically speaking, a majority of people enjoy media (games, movies, books, etc) as a form of escapism. "Get away from my everyday life of boring, repetitive, ups and downs and dive into the fantastical lives of others." This is especially common in movies, but certainly branches into gaming as well. A lot of mainstream media caters to this escapism formula. "Oh, someone might die near the end of the movie, but we will bring them back because that's just too sad--and we want to make the viewer happy and forget the sad." That kind of mentality.


There's a lot of people - be them realists or just pure jaded fiends (like myself) who can't STAND that sort of scapegoat ending that is obviously just escapism pandering. It can feel very unrealistic and even corny or backpeddle a lot of what the story already stated just to make sure the ending feels soft and squishy for people.


So, a realist might look at that sort of ending and roll their eyes. They want an 'unhappy' ending compared to something that has obviously been thrown together to keep people's spirits up. It's not really masochism, it's simply that they aren't looking for escapism when they interact with media. They want media to tell a complete and realistic story - be it happy or unhappy really. (because there can be happy and realistic endings)


There's certainly nothing wrong with escapism in media though and nothing wrong with enjoying it. It's just that there are some people who can accept it and some people who can't stand it. (like most things) Some people want it and some people don't.

 

[Neverward]

Well.... I don't necessarily like BAD endings.

I enjoy some sad endings, but it has to be in the plot really well.  Like your main character dying at the end is actually a refreshing change to me, however it has to be justified and make things happier in some way? Maybe it's not that I like bad endings, but I don't mind a lot of characters dying for a good cause? Because death is realistic, and so is sadness, and I enjoy realism in my games.

I also enjoy sappy lovey happy endings, I'm a Harvest Moon fan and I could name more if I weren't so lazy. So maybe I don't really qualify since I just enjoy games, so long as the ending is good ;P happy or sad

 

[EternalShadow]

The ending of Bridge to Terabithia made perfect sense.

To a large majority on the internet, it wasn't a 'good' ending, even if it 'made sense'. It was more like, 'poorly executed' which made it bad. The film in general wasn't very good which made the ending worse, but that's totally another story. I was trying to think of another example but I can't remember it. I do remember a film where no plot holes were tied up at the end, but I can't remember what film it was at all.

 

[Diretooth]

Bad endings, where everything goes wrong, are enjoyable every now and then. If every game had nothing but good endings, we would stop playing games because it would get boring.

Bad endings are a breth of fresh air. They can make you rage or they can make you weep with sorrow.

One well known example is Shadow of the Colossus, the ending is enjoyable because it fits the story and because you can relate with the character on some level.

Another excellent example is Nier. I'm not going to spoil anything (because it's an amazing game that everyone should give a shot with), but the endings (all of them fit well together and don't really give different canons, except the last two) each lend more and more to the story. (After the first playthrough, the game becomes very different, showing you so much more of the game's story and backstory.)

 

[Tai_MT]

My take on endings:  The ending needs to make sense in context with the story being told.  If you have the balls to kill off your main characters, you need to have the fortitude to keep them killed off.  If you don't do that, you're pandering to your audience as well as showing what an incompetent writer you are.

I haven't played many games with "bad" or "downer" endings because they frequently just don't exist.  Or, they exist in some state where you only get the "bad" endings because you didn't do the obvious stuff you were supposed to do (or didn't get 100% completion of the game... making the good ending the reward and reason to keep playing, which is freakin' odd).

However, I watch a lot of anime with downer endings or outright sad endings.  I tend to appreciate these more because despite how terrible things are, I can walk away having learned something.  On top of that, the characters can often walk away having learned something.  Sometimes, these downer endings need to exist to even prove how powerful or important the narrative was to begin with.  Want to know how much your audience cares about the plot or the characters?  Have one of them die in an irreversible fashion.  If you've done your job writing them well up to that point, these deaths or downer endings can be far more poignant than any "happy" ending.

Let's take a look at Romeo and Juliet for a minute.  Most people consider it "the greatest love story of all time", of course forgetting about the fact that Romeo was essentially a pedophile and they eloped over the course of a week without knowing anything about each other.  How does everyone remember the ending?  They killed themselves for each other.  Everyone ignores or glosses over the fact that the story doesn't end there.  It actually ends with the two families coming together and ending their feud because the two loved each other so much.  That's the take-away.  That's why it's a good story.  It's a good story because their mutual persecution by the opposite family as well as eventual suicide pact is what patches up the storyline.  It's made poignant by the fact that their deaths were needless and pointless and could have been avoided if the families had just decided to get along in the first place.

That's what a downer ending essentially does.  It highlights the human condition and tells you that maybe things aren't going to be "okay" immediately.  Maybe things get better later as a result of this downer ending.  Maybe the downer ending shows the futility of some action or belief and highlights it wonderfully.  Maybe, it just underlines that happy endings are for children and that life goes on beyond the credits no matter how good or bad something has turned out to be.

"Downer Endings", when done right and in context are far more powerful and moving than any "Happy Ending" you can come up with.

 

[AngelGrace]

To a large majority on the internet, it wasn't a 'good' ending, even if it 'made sense'. It was more like, 'poorly executed' which made it bad. The film in general wasn't very good which made the ending worse, but that's totally another story. I was trying to think of another example but I can't remember it. I do remember a film where no plot holes were tied up at the end, but I can't remember what film it was at all.

That's because a large majority of the internet grew up reading and watching stories where everything works out in the end, and if something bad happens, it's part of a larger good thing.

BoT's ending was sad, pointless, and tragic, and that made it real. There was no meaning to what happened, but that's how life was, and the author handled it very realistically. BoT was a very real story.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Nier like 4 endings and all of them are varying degrees of everything is screwed. And I loved it. I loved it because when you realize what is going on... its just powerful. Its hard to explain. Its not masochistic its that its done really well.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Define the word "bad", bad as in "bad" or bad as in "negative"?