Is it a bad idea to use RPG Maker VX Ace default combat system?

[somenick]

Is it a bad idea to use RPG Maker VX Ace's default combat system?

OK, I have been tweaking it a bit. Even added some script that still preserves the "first person" type of combat but with jazzed up effects and character faces.

 

[sabao]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it. It gets the job done. I think the important thing for designers to consider is to keep battles meaningful and not go over the top with them.

 

[Bloodmorphed]

Turn based combat is fun if used right. Even the default combat system can be quite fun. Without scripts. Tehre are almost an endless amount of ways to make it work better without scripts and to make it fun.

 

[rpglover88]

It has nothing to do with being a bad idea or a good idea. It depends on what you like and what you want for your game. Thats what i think.

 

[cabfe]

I think some people might dislike the default combat system for quite the same reason people dislike seeing the RTP graphics: it's been done over and over by a lot of not-so-good games and left a bad impression on players.

But, like the RTP, it can be used efficiently and be fun. It really depends on the talent of the developper to create something good with these tools as they are only tools, not products.

 

[Matseb2611]

Default battle system is simply that - a system. How you make this system work in your game is what matters. You can make the mechanics of the battle and each character's skills interesting enough to make it fun for the player.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

If that is bad, then using almost any other battle system is also bad. Why? Because most people will tell you that it's bad because it's been done over and over again, which is true for most other battle systems out there...


Now if they tell you that it's bad because they don't like turn-based combat, then those people are simply not the target of your game.

 

[whitesphere]

I don't think the battle system is the problem, in most cases.  When you have combat in a game, it really needs to be fun for the player.   This means it needs to be well balanced --- not too easy and not too hard.   And I think it's better if the combat, at least against significant opponents (bosses and harder random encounters) needs some strategy to win. 

If a party can win all battles by pretty much pressing "Attack" with an occasional "Heal" thrown in, battles become boring.  To make combat interesting, make some opponents require specialized Skills.  That can start with "Lightning hurts water creatures" and get into strategies like "Trip the golem, which stuns it and makes it vulnerable to Fist Strike"  or "Paralyze the Lich for 2 rounds with Dispel Evil, then cast Brittle to weaken the Lich's body and attack with a mace to shatter the body and win".  The key is these make for interesting tactics which require different party members to coordinate their attacks to win.

You want to make the player have to coordinate the party members' attacks intelligently to defeat the harder opponents.  And the different opponents can require different strategies, so the player needs to learn what works.   This keeps players on their toes and makes combat far more interesting.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

though make sure that there is at least more than 1 method to win, especially if the player has the choice when it comes to stat and skill builds.

 

[whitesphere]

though make sure that there is at least more than 1 method to win, especially if the player has the choice when it comes to stat and skill builds.

Absolutely.  And it's important the tactics be logical and the player has some way to find out, especially if there are a series of steps to victory.

I had one boss who needed Fire, then Ice cast on him, then any hit would shatter him.  Otherwise he was all but invulnerable.  But there were several ways to inflict Fire and Ice damage (spells, elemental Swords, Skills, etc) and I had an NPC who complained about destroying heated pottery by casting an Ice spell on it.  Said boss is basically a statue, so I thought that was pretty clear.

 

[TheoAllen]

If people mostly fine with the default battle system (though, I guess it is not), me personally not fine.

Default battle system need to be redone to make it better. Mostly, it's about the design of the UI itself. Not boring, but bad design.

Read this article http://yanflychannel.wordpress.com/articles/design-for-delivery-and-focus/

I'm just trying to be honest here.

Edit :

If you ask, is the frontview battle system bad? No, they're not bad if done properly.

I just point to the default script without any additional scripts.

 

[Wavelength]

Using the default combat system is fine.

Using the default combat system in a way that doesn't engage the player is the real problem.

As with any element in your game, think through why the player will want to experience the battle system.  If you can't come up with a good answer, replace it or get rid of it entirely.

 

[Mihel]

Absolutely not a bad idea. It is exactly as good as you make it to be.

Specifically in Ace, the skill tab has enough features by itself to make battles way more interesting than previous versions. TP gauge is also a fun little addition that spices things up, plus even without scripts you can use common events to make stuff happen.

Obviously if you only have vanilla skills that are the usual attack/defend/fire spell/ice spell that is identical to fire spell except they have different animation/heal or cookie-cutter Slime that has only two attacks then no, obviously that is not good; but it's not the battle system fault, because no amount of scripting can fix lack of dedication.

If you ask, is the frontview battle system bad? No, they're not bad if done properly.

Frontview is not a battle system.

 

[TheoAllen]

Frontview is not a battle system.

Then, how am I suppose to call it?

 

[Mihel]

I don't know what it is you want to name, classical turn based perhaps?

But front view is just the graphical representation of enemies and/or party members on the screen. It does not affect the way turns are calculated, the way HP/MP/CT are lost and gained, the way states are applied etc.

 

[TheoAllen]

I'm aware if it's only graphical representation. But most of people call sideview battle system as well which it's also not really a battle system.

 

[Bloodmorphed]

I don't know what it is you want to name, classical turn based perhaps?

But front view is just the graphical representation of enemies and/or party members on the screen. It does not affect the way turns are calculated, the way HP/MP/CT are lost and gained, the way states are applied etc.

I think your just being nit-picky at this point. When I say "frontview" battle system I'm talking about the whole thing in general, not just the "graphical" part of it.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I think this is getting a bit off topic...

Spoiler

Thing is frontview can be a lot of things, it's not a specific battle system... Like I could have the default which is Front-view turn-based with static enemy battlers w/o actor battlers, I could also have a front-view turn-based with static enemy and actor battlers. Then we could also have front-view turn-based with animated battlers.
The only thing different with them is that they had different graphical representations, yet all of them are still front-view and are still turn-based.


So I'd really suggest just calling the default system as the default system...


Well, yeah maybe we're being nitpicky, but IMHO, it's just that a lot of people are mixing different things up.

@OP - anyways, it depends on how you use it. It isn't inherently bad. Also remember that you won't please everyone.

 

[amerk]

I won't judge a game as a whole if it uses the default, but it had better make up for it in terms of the quality behind the combat mechanics: strategizing, the use of skills, enemy patterns, and so forth. In other words, something more than just mindlessly mashing the attack button.

Really, though, Yanfly offers an easy to use update to the default that puts character facesets in battle. It's a simple update, but you'd be surprised by how much nicer it looks. It's plug and play, part of her core fixes, and it's free.

 

[Archeia]

I love RM's default battle system! If anything I only recommend changing the UI since it has a lot of fundamental flaws in order to show some very important details.

e.g. more states, battle log, better targeting window, etc.