Is it possible to get into game design without a computer science degree?

[Mr. Detective]

Hi guys,

I am taking both Computer Science and Calculus in college, and I absolutely hate them. Worst is Calculus, I spend a huge amount of time on it, but it is actually my worst subject out of all 4. Computer Science is not as bad as Calculus, but it isn't that much fun either. My dream is to become an engineer and a game designer. The former is definitely out of the question, as I don't have the passion and skills to continue with math. I have heard mixed comments about game designing. Some said it is possible to get in the field without being good at math and programming. Some said it is wise to give up and find another major, since it is impossible to get far without a math mindset. Others said, it can be done, but not as well as having a degree.

My mom said I can't do anything without being good at math, and every job requires it. I liked math up to Algebra 2 and Geometry, but once I got to Pre-Cal, I started to hate it. I just can't catch a firm grip on the contexts and its randomness. It doesn't help that most math and computer teachers in college are just there to give you a grade, not to teach. I was kinda surprised to find that I am not the only who thought so when asking around.

I have a Calculus test on Tuesday, a CS assignment due on the same day along with a bunch of questions. Every time I start doing math, I feel like I'm being mental tortured. Someone advised me to talk to a counselor to see which choices do I have, but I honestly I am not seeing any other paths. I have to get past at least one of the two, since I am getting financial aid, so if I drop them both I'll be questioned. I don't know how much longer could I put up with CS, it wasn't too bad at the beginning, but the current assignment is driving me nuts. Calculus, this is my second time taking it, and I honestly don't want to deal with it ever again. I don't have time to practice driving, or looking for a part-time job because Calculus sucks all of my time. I spend the most time on it, but it is the worst subject I have.

I tried watching tutorials, asking for help around the internet, but even that doesn't help. Tutorials help me understand the basic concepts and do the normal problems, but when the professor throws a bunch of advanced problems at me, I'm dead meat. Same with CS, lectures are really insufficient to do the assignment. The CS professor basically said it himself: "I am going to leave you guys to sink or swim. If you can't get the stuff by yourself, try to do your best." Calculus professor, like the two I had before, can't explain anything sensible. The other students seem to all get the materials, they can do it, but when I asked them, they couldn't explain well or unable to help me with all of my question. That, and I am not much of a social person.

I am so tired, and I just don't want to keep up this charade any longer. However, I still have to suck it up and survive for another 1.5 month and pull at least a C for both classes. Japanese and English are not really an issue, fortunately. Even so, what am I going to do next semester? What paths do I have?

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

If you really like to take up CS, you'd do your best to learn, hard assignments will be your time to shine etc... but seeing as how you fare like now, I feel like maybe you need to consider talking to the counselor to find out what you really want... I only had 2 CS related subjects since I took up engineering but from what I experienced, mentors only teach the basics of programming (they don't even give sensible examples), and it's up to you to know how to apply them... and from what I see from my CS friends, it seems like their other prog subjects are like that too...

Also, if the teachers in your school is like that, then I suggest you find another school where teachers are more into ensuring that the students learn... though really, it might seem like that for math and cs since most of the problems there are really about how the student will apply the basics that the professor taught them... 

BTW, have you tried to consult with your professors about the topics that you do not understand? if not, then try to do so first...

as for getting in game design job without skills in programming, IDK... maybe if you'll only want to go into design as in creating concepts and things like that, then yeah I don't think you'd need programming for that... but if you want to be part of those that actually program the game, then I believe you need to have programming skills...

 

[Andar]

I don't know how schooling or university are handled in your country, but here in Germany all the top level university lections are focusing on teaching you how to handle unknown problems, not how to solve known problems (I'm talking about getting an equivalent to a master's degree of engineering). That means that many professor's do the same as your's do: they teach the basics, but let the students themselves find out how to solve the more advanced problems, to prepare them for working in the industry when they get tasks that no one knows how to solve.

For example, there was a large written test (4 hours) I had to take where you could take with you whatever you wanted - books, solutions from previous tests, lecture scripts, whatever.

The catch of this?

The number of questions and tasks in that test was so high, that you basically had no time to calculate the results yourself. you needed to know where in the material you took with you was a similiar question, and then only replace the numbers in that other question with the current ones and recalculating the solution from them. If you even tried to solve the question on your own, you wouldn't have been able to get more than halfway through the test before time was up.

Those who learned how to organise their data got usually good grades - those who thought that they simply had to bring everything without knowing what was in those books usually failed.

From your description, your profs are trying to teach you the same: how to organise yourself to work out unknown problems. You should think a bit about that, perhaps it'll help you to get through the rest.

That said, back to your question:

Game design doesn't need the advanced mathematics (unless you want to write your own 3D-engine, that is a lot of mathematics but not exactly game design, but engine programming), but you need to be able to abstract data - to turn a story description into something that can be handled by the computer.

That is not exactly the same as what is focused on most engineering lectures. It is similiar enough that having a computer science degree will help you getting into game design, but different enough that there are specific universities founded in the last years to teach game design degrees independent of other degrees.

And game design is a very broad area that ranges from engine programming over level design (mapping in RPGM) to storyboarding (writing) and artwork.

From your description I think that you won't have much fun when programming engined for hard gamers, but programming for casual players or level design might be more interesting to you.

But that is something you have to decide for yourself:

What part of the game design process do you want to work in?

Then focus on getting the knowledge on that area, keeping only enough knowledge of the other areas to be able to talk to people who will be working on the same project in those other areas.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I agree with Andar, it seems our profs have the same method and that method actually gets you ready for real life... Because in real life, you would face problems that you need to solve by yourself, you don't always have a professor to ask to help you... no one will hire you to solve an already solved problem anyway...

maybe level design or something similar will be good for you instead of the hardcore programming part of games...

 

[ShinGamix]

yes you can check out a school in Orlando called Full Sail!

I would do that if I could afford it.

 

[Mr. Detective]

I could see that is how math and computer science will be taught in college and university, so I realized that this is not something suitable for me. I understand why they don't hold my hands, but this is still a first year's class, would it kill them to explain and guide the students through at least one semester so they can have a firm grip on the subject? I haven't consulted with my professor about the assignment, but based on his attitude and style, I certainly don't want to go there. He refused to answer me once already, that was in the lab. Also, we are too deep in the period of "sink or swim on your own" already. I tried asking on c++ forum for help as well, but even they don't want to go the extra steps. I need to show some of my work first, but I have no clue how and where to even start. This is probably the same for all schools out there, I assume.

I want to work in designing levels, modeling characters, making skills animations, and a little bit of game testing and balancing, or something similar. I lack programming and artistic skills, so I don't know if I can really make the cut. I have heard things about Full Sail. While I am curious how it is like, I am worried about the debt it could possibly put me in. Thus, I am still unable to solve what's killing me at the moment: Calculus test and CS assignment.

 

[kerbonklin]

This is the best way to describe the job of "Video Game Design"

"Games are made by elves, Designers leave a game-design-idea in the middle of the room overnight and in the morning the elves have made the game."  It's like Santa's workshop, where Santa designs a wish list.

Comedy-abstract-quote taken from the book Level Up! - The guide to great video game design by Scott Rogers. Very great book indeed.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I want to work in designing levels, modeling characters, making skills animations, and a little bit of game testing and balancing, or something similar. I lack programming and artistic skills, so I don't know if I can really make the cut. I have heard things about Full Sail. While I am curious how it is like, I am worried about the debt it could possibly put me in. Thus, I am still unable to solve what's killing me at the moment: Calculus test and CS assignment.

hmmm... those require artistic ability... you can of course always practice... though if you want formal education in those, you might need money... I think this is when you choose between what you want and what you currently have... of course you can always try to balance both, though it's really hard... I know coz I've been there... I took up engineering but what I really like to do is programming... I was able to self-study programming every now and then but when my requirements in my subjects get piled up, then I have no choice but to focus on those first...

I think you could try your best in your current course for now as you don't seem to have the option to change courses or something, and use your free time (when you have them) to learn and practice the skills that you need... who knows, you might be successful in that... if you can get good at graphics design and 3D modelling, you can be able to make good money out of it even in your college years via doing part-time/commissioned jobs...

 

[Mr. Detective]

I don't have a great ability to self-study, I could do it, but not as well as others can. I am trying whatever I could in my current Calculus and CS classes. But once I am done with this semester, what then? Should I keep taking the next level or should I consider an alternative? I haven't touched 3D modeling yet, beside a little basic in Maya that I learned in high school. But even with an easy 2D engine like RPG Maker, I still have yet to make anything fantastic, let alone moving to 3D.

I need to have time to build up some sort of skills, which has completely sucked up by these two subjects. And does anyone know much about those Game Designing schools, or have been to one?

 

[kerbonklin]

 And does anyone know much about those Game Designing schools, or have been to one?

Same book I mentioned before, i'm pretty sure reading this will teach you what any college would, and MUCH more with the help of references and examples.

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-047068867X.html  (Table of contents and summary)

They also have Chapter 1 in PDF form if you click "Read an Excerpt" right under the image.

 

[Andar]

I don't have a great ability to self-study, I could do it, but not as well as others can.

Game Design is about creativity, about coming up with ideas and transforming them into a computer-handable format. That is not something that can be shown or taught, you need to be able to come up with ideas on your own. If you have problems with self-study or organising yourself, then this is not the best job choice you could do.

However, there are other ways to get into the game industry (as opposed to game design in general).

There are a lot of people that get hired to turn the ideas of others into production, and you might be able to go that way, especially since basic implementation usually don't need much in the way of degrees, but only high skill in the limited field of what you want to implement.

But even that needs a minimum of creativity and the ability to work on something without being told every single step. The lead programmer of a very small freeware game programmed in delphi once told me that he can't explain the program code to everyone interested in helping - if he had to explain someone how to program a function, it would be faster to program that function himself and work without that help. Therefore he required every programmer who wanted to help to be able to write the basic function assigned themselves, and only helped when that function was written and everyone was bughunting in it.

However, even self-study can be learned - if you put in the time to learn that. It might be usefull for you to learn some time-management-skills or how to organise a project. That is NOT something you can learn in a school, it's basically learned from bad experience (like scrapped RPGM-Projects) and sometimes by looking for books on those themes and reading them yourself.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

 I just like to add as I always tell others, don't expect yourself to show good results on your first RPG Maker try or in anything that you make for the first time in real life... if you do, you will (most of the times) just end up feeling too pressured and eventually fail which then leads to more frustration... You will inevitably fail, probably many times, but don't stop... use those failures to improve yourself, because failures are a window for you to see what you lack so that you can improve on them...

Now, whether you continue on that path or take another is up to you... Weigh the consequences, take a look if it's possible... That has been my problem from my 6 years in university, up until the last subject that I had, I was still thinking if I'm doing the right thing (oh well up until now really)... but back then, I chose to continue because: 1) My grades aren't good enough to transfer to CS, 2) That would mean more semesters for me, and I'm afraid that we might not have the money to continue my education if that happens...

 

[Mr. Detective]

I don't expect good result on my first try, but at least I have a clue what I lack or what I should be doing. I can't say the same thing about Calculus and CS, I just can't get a firm grip with them. I got my first CS test back today, got a 75 on it. Not good, but at least it wasn't a fail like Calculus.

Anyway, I also talked to a counselor today, but it didn't go very well. My brain was sorta fried so I started by asking stupidly: "I am struggling with Calculus and CS, is there anyway I can still get a degree?". I hope he wasn't too confused by that. He is kinda old as well, and he didn't seem to be familiar with subject. That aside, he said that computer science isn't going to help me in becoming a game designer. Something like film/video or art and computer graphics would be more suitable. He told me to go see the Art Center in school and asked what they have. I didn't have time and I didn't think it would help much so I haven't gone there yet.

Should I go talk to another counselor to see what they have to say? If the fact is I can't make the cut to be in the game industry, then I would have accept that. But I don't have much of an interest or knowledge about other careers, though, so I have to consider this throughly.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

wow a 75... what's the grade you're aiming for anyway? to me 75 is quite fine already... I don't really care much about grades anyway... 

Well, the design part of game design is more on creativity which might be why he told you to take something related to art and computer graphics...

It could be really hard to choose, especially during these times... sometimes you just need to think about what you really enjoy doing the most... though that in itself can be hard sometimes...

 

[sabao]

Game development is like an ogre: green and layered. From personal experience, and yes this may not apply everywhere, a college degree goes a long way.

I have an arbitrary understanding of programming logic. Like, slightly above layman probably. Maybe higher. If I had the opportunity to be formally trained I'd take it, no matter how hard it was. It's just a matter of wanting it hard enough. I graduated with a degree in multimedia design. As the name implies, it's an art course that covered everything from painting to photography to web design. There were programming classes too, but nowhere near enough. I used some of my free time to study on my own, and for my thesis, I completed a modest little puzzle side scroller for the iOS. I only barely managed, and the game was hardly anything technical.

I'm in a small game company now. I don't have nearly enough knowledge as a programmer, so unless I learn on my own time and build a portfolio/credentials to back up what I can do, no one's even going to consider me for that kind of job. I played to my strengths instead and signed on as an artist.

Much like you, I'd like to be a game developer. Who wouldn't? It's probably the easiest job of all! Except it isn't. Not at all. Usually, developers/directors start out somewhere else: an artist, or yes, programmer. No team in their right mind is going to trust what you offer until you have the bones to back it up with. Bottom line is time and money's invested in these things, and if it's a business, risk has to be managed.

Finally, a college degree in what you want to pursue as a career should help prepare you for the future (and they attract potential employers as well). Sometimes, things just don't work out though. The job you want may not be available where you are, or god forbid nobody wants to take you. I think in cases like these, a degree in Computer Sciences is more useful than a more focused degree in game design, because in the event you have trouble finding a job in the games industry, your broader training in programming can at least land you somewhere else to keep you afloat.

TL;DR

Whether you choose to join a studio or establish your own, you'll find yourself doing a lot of hard work. It's tiring work, but if it's what you want to do, the gratification of finishing something, no matter how mundane, is wonderful. If you feel you don't have the knack to code, do graphics. Or sound. Neither will be a fast track to a career neither, but if it's something you like doing better and something you feel you're more likely to excel at, then do it.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I agree with sabao, if I'll have enough money I'll probably take up another degree program to study CS... if I get rich, I'll study Culinary arts...

as per one of my favorite readings on the net, "Your college degree wasn't meant to land you a job"... If you find full CS hard, maybe try to find a school that offers a shorter CS course, or any other IT related courses... that is if you want to be on the programming side of game dev... else you can try something like sabao's course, multimedia design...

 

[Mr. Detective]

I'm at the point where I really don't want to have anything to do with programming or advanced math anymore. They are so stressful and I don't feel like I could get a firm grip on them. If I can't handle things at this level, I doubt I'll make the cut for the stress as a professional game designer. So, maybe I should just make video games as a hobby and find something else to do as a career?

I am trying to do my CS and Calculus homework now, and honestly, I just want to drop dead. It's my second time taking Calculus, and I am still dying. I don't know what's going to happen if I drop it again. CS, I think I could try to pass with a C, although this is also really hard.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

If that's how you feel, then it's possible that you should really try something else... If you cannot find the motivation or a reason to keep you fighting, then I think you'll just make things harder for yourself...

 

[Mr. Detective]

I would really want to end this sooner, too. But, this will be my second time dropping it, which means it will affect my financial aid and my profile. But if I don't, it's unlikely that I can pull a passing grade. I'm in such a bind right now...

 

[sabao]

As far as a career in game development goes, there's also sound and graphic design. Neither are skills you'll be competent in right away either. I mean, with you considering changing majors and all these are possible options still in line with game dev.


If you really want to pursue game development as a career, I recommend just keeping at it. You're not going to be as great as you'd like, but small improvements add up over time. I'm hardly a professional-grade artist either, but here I am doing what I'm doing and (hopefully) improving as I go along. It's stressful and it hurts sometimes, knowing you're reaching for a standard you just can't seem to make just yet but with patience and hard work you'll get there.