Is it truly nostalgia or do games really suck now?

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by Leon Kennedy, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. XIIIthHarbinger

    XIIIthHarbinger Part Time Super Villain Veteran

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    I disagree,

    I am no stranger to Nostalgia with a capital N, I started out playing on 2nd gen hardware like the Atari 2600 along with Pacman & Donkey Kong arcade cabinets, & the first system I owned was an NES with the original Super Mario Brothers.

    However, no amount of leniency on the grounds of accounting for nostalgia induced "rose tinted glasses", can dismiss the numerous bad business practices that many of the major companies in gaming have developed, in this century. In fact many of them simply really weren't even possible to adopt in the previous century, let alone provide a profit incentive for doing so.

    I don't even recall hearing words like "Pay2Win", "DLC", "Microtransactions", etcetera in the eighties & nineties; the closest thing I can remember to any of that were expansion packs for some PC games like Brood War, for StarCraft.

    Understand I am not saying that these companies would have never done X, Y, or Z that have become so common today in the past, merely that they weren't able to do so. But now because they can, many of them do, & by extension negatively impact the enjoyment of the player base.
     
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  2. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    Nostalgia.

    This is absolutely not tue.

    Every game has had bugs and in many of those old games, if you had a bug that could even cause game to literally become unbeatable somehow, there was no way to fix it.

    Case in point, in Super Paper Mario, if you talk to the maid during certain time, your entire game system freezes. And this can never be patched, despite it's literally a game breaking bug.

    Nintendo's only answer was to tell you don't need to talk to the maid and told players what to actually do to get past that point, as the only official workaround.

    This is again not true, many old games had numerous sequels, like Leisure Suit Larry games.

    You're not expected to pay anything. DLC is totally optional. If you bought expansion pack to something like Command&Conquer back in the day, that was just as optional too and only added handful of extra content.



    Seriously, you have to have a really hardcore nostalgia boner to play Mario Odyssey and then go "Yeah, I want to play Super Mario 64 instead."
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
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  3. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    I really don't think it's all nostalgia, honestly. Like, I play a lot more new games than old. No one's saying all new games are bad. I like both new games and old, it's just a lot of new games nowadays are not as memorable because all the devs really seem to care about is making it look pretty, so they discard most music, GUI is almost nonexistent, etc. I think people just need to understand that not everything needs to be photo-realistic.
     
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  4. DestinyBattle

    DestinyBattle Final Fantasy Nut Veteran

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    It's a little bit of both.

    Nostalgia plays a huge part in what games people like. That's why generally gamers (not every gamer) would tend to hold older games in a series in higher regard than newer games. And this goes for entertainment in general too. I personally feel that the overall quality of games has decreased since older times. This I feel is because, money plays more of an importance in the industry than it has ever before, so some developers would do less for a bigger payout. That's not to say that games nowadays are terrible, nah, Persona 5, recent game, very amazing.

    So yeah, I feel like nostalgia clouds judgement, but there's evidence of quality of games decreasing as well. :)
     
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  5. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    Personally... I just feel it's bad game design.

    If I'm feeling nostalgic, I'll buy the old game and play it. Here's the problem: I don't own that many "old games". Diddy Kong Racing DS, Super Mario 64 DS, Chrono Trigger DS, Earthbound on 3DS, Ocarina of Time on 3DS, Harvest Moon on the Wii...

    These games that I purchased for "nostalgia" remain "unfinished" save for Chrono Trigger DS.

    I'm not looking to "recapture" an old experience when I get a new game. I'm looking for a new experience that fully engages me. That makes me want to stay up all night and keep playing. One more turn. One more level. One more mission. Just to the next save point. One more Quest. I'm looking for that engagement.

    Unfortunately, that "hook" is what eludes me. The last game that "hooked" me was Mass Effect 1. Or maybe "The Sims" franchise. Or... maybe Dead Space 2.

    I just want to play a game that grabs me. That makes me want to stay up all night playing it. That's a good game. They're in short supply these days. To me, most new games feel like, "having a job I don't get paid for".

    I don't know, maybe kids today dream of games in which they get to pretend to be adults and "do work they don't get paid for", and all the adults dream of games in which they get to pretend to be someone... ANYONE else that does fun things instead of things that remind them that they're doing work that is unpaid.
     
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  6. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    There have been games that people argued, especially if it was day one dlc that the creators just took content from their main game to charge extra for it[cough mass effect 3 cough]. SMO is cool but once again, content and/or bonuses are stored in an amiibo that certain places you are required to buy it with the game even if you don't want it.

    Also Nintendo has been in third place for how long now? Obviously they are doing something wrong. N64 was the last time they were even close to competitors with sony and microsoft its been all downhill from there.

    I can name endless new games that had game breaking bugs before patch. Dying light, Minecraft, Assassins creed unity, New Sonic the Hedgehog, Battlefield 4 which completely corrupted your saves and gave red screen if you had certain graphics cards on pc and even the famed CoD Advanced Warfare completely broken on release and 7 patches later good as new. Not to mention the laundry list of games with endless bugs I was only naming games that were not playable due to crashes.

    Come to think of it every once in a while i still play mw3 online and there are STILL people that can activate invincible but the creators were to busy working on that cod they wanted to release lazyly 6 months later to care.
     
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  7. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    Again, you're not REQUIRED to buy it at all. Never in the game there are "You have to buy Mario Amiibo or else the game won't launch."

    Um, what? Wii outsold both PS 3 and 360 worldwide. That's not even opinion based, that's literal facts.

    consolewars3.png

    Like, EVERYONE owned Wii. You'd have to be a really diehard Sony fanboy to pretend Sony somehow were higher than Nintendo when factually, Nintendo was number one and Sony and Microsoft were fighting to be the number two spot. And they still didn't even get close to Nintendo Wii sales.

    Yes and with patches, you are able to fix these things.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
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  8. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    That's debatable being that wii was half the price of xbox 360 and ps3. So just because people bought them doesn't mean its their favorite out of the 3. This is proven by wii having the most sales in 2009 the year of usa recession and stock market crash. Then 2010-2012 the fad was over xbox and ps3 got motion added and wii fell flat on it's face.

    Another good debate on that is the Wii U which was even announced by nintendo as the worst game system sales since the gamecube.

    PS4 67 million sold
    Xbox One 32 million sold
    Wii U 13 million sold [even with being released an entire year earlier]

    Also as far as game sales go....

    1 PS4 Call of Duty: WWII 3,576,235
    2 XOne Call of Duty: WWII 1,600,476
    3 NS Super Mario Odyssey 681,190

    http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/

    Good effort though.
     
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  9. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    No, it didn't. It had most sales of any of the three consoles. Neither 360 nor PS3 came even close to Wii sales. 360 sold more than PS3 but sold nearly 20 million less than Wii.

    That has nothing to do with Wii.

    That's not a good debate when it's totally different console.

    You said nothing came close to competing since N64 but Wii came after and destroyed the competition. It literally left the other two fighting for the 2nd place.


    Can you just stop fanboying and admit that Nintendo kicked whatever your favorite console's ass during Wii era?

    Also, where the hell did you pull the 681K number from? Super Mario is close to 3 million sold. It made more than 681K on USA alone.

    It even says so in that link that you gave.... You also literally linked the platform totals that show that Wii did in fact, sell a lot more than PS 3 and 360... Like, do you even look at the links you post because they prove what I say correct and discredit yourself?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  10. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    In the last 2-3 years of the systems life no it didn't outsell either one. To argue total sales when the wii started off at almost half the price of other two is like to say since more cubic zirconia is sold worldwide each day people like it more than diamonds. Obviously not true, it's just what they can afford at the time. Once all three could be found at under 150 bucks the wii stopped selling more.

    [​IMG]

    Also yeah the wiiu is totally relevant. If someone like you thinks people loved the wii and the slowing down of sales had to do with everyone that wanted a wii having one why didn't they fly off the shelves? Why did they completely fail to sell even half off the other consoles in its generation?

    Also right on the side of the link it shows the total sales and shows cod ww2 which is a sucky game outsold SMO which is a good game and shows ps2 as all time best selling console lol.
     
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  11. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    Because Wii U is not Wii, they're again two different consoles. Why do you keep insisting on saying "It's relevant" when Wii U is literally different than Wii. It's like saying, we need to put SNES together with NES. Or PlayStation 1 to 3. Or X-Box with 360.

    Yes, PS2 is best selling console. We never talked about PS2? We were talking about 360 and PS 3 and Wii did outsell those both. What part of nearly 20 million more units sold do you not understand?

    Wii (Wii) 101.64 million
    PlayStation 3 (PS3) 86.90 million
    Xbox 360 (X360) 85.80 million

    That's literally from that link you gave. In that PS 2 best selling list, Wii is literally above 360 and PS3. Do you have some weird tunnel vision where you just cherry pick information that you like to see?

    Again Wii =/= Wii U, do you seriously not know these are two totally different consoles?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  12. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    I'll put it simply, here's why though the wii was the best selling console of the three that I think nintendo was still 3rd place.

    1. Casual/Non Gamers loved the wii and bought it and maybe the sports game and another game for it and then stopped.
    2. Ps3 and Xbox 360 probably had 15x more games released for them than the wii. Once again hurting the success for nintendo.
    3. I'm really not a fan of graphics but the wii had graphics that looked like it was still on the gamecube, no progress at all
    4. When a company releases a new console it speaks volumes of the satisfaction people had with the previous because if they loved it they will do anything to get the next console release. That is why the Wii U IS RELEVANT because it exposed the wii for what it was. A fad. People that just bought it for exercise and cell phone type games didn't want to buy a console 4x more expensive to do hardcore gaming.
    5. Nintendo has been in well known financial trouble for a long time. This doesn't= Success. Sure the wii sold more than ps3 and xbox 360 but when you consider individual games sold for each due to limited games for the wii it doesn't even come close.
     
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  13. Tuomo L

    Tuomo L Oldbie Veteran

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    This has nothing to do with opinions. Again, Nintendo outsold their competition. Therefore, they win. This is fact. You can say "Well, I think Turbographix-16 won 16-bit wars" all you want but that won't change literal facts. Only people who don't want to admit that are diehard Sony fans who cry and trash about claiming PS3 somehow had more sales or the sales were more important or something that has nothing to do with the facts. Wii had more sales, no matter how much you spin around and try and downplay that fact.

    Nintendo won last gen, your favorite console lost. Get over it.

    No, it didn't expose anything. Many people just thought it was a new controller for Wii because it was poorly named and poorly marketed. This again has nothing to do with with Wii.

    By your logic, PSP exposed that PS 2 was a fad since PSP sucked and was poorly marketed piece of shite and half the sales of its competitor and lost Sony millions.

    "But PSP is nothing like PS2"

    Right and Wii U is nothing like Wii.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  14. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    Handhelds are different and you know that. By past consoles any normal person with common sense can tell a console speaks volumes of the next console in line up.

    Sega, bad console leads to bad console leads to worse console leads to just being a 3rd party developer.

    Sony, good console leads to best selling console of ALL TIME, leads to good console, leads to best selling console of this generation of consoles.

    Microsoft, good console leads to great console leads to 2nd place current gen console.

    Nintendo, wonderful console leads to great console leads to good console leads to decent console leads to #5 selling console with short life span leads to one of the worst selling consoles ever leads to hasnt been out long enough to judge yet console.

    The only exception has been nintendo but that's what happens when you release a gimmicky console most famous amoungst non gamers and people who primarily enjoy mini games, and wii u was a massive failure.

    Also by the way PSP has 80 million sold so even that wasn't a failure a failure is 13 million sold like the wii u. Lol.
     
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  15. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Tuomo L I like a robust discussion as much as the next person, but your posts are become more like ad hominum attacks. Please tone things down, it's getting to sound quite aggressive, which will actively discourage anyone else joining in the discussion.

    @Tuomo L and @Leon Kennedy This is getting a bit off-topic. This was meant to be about recent games and their quality, or lack of it, when compared to earlier generations of games. Arguments about which is the best selling console do not, it seems to me, directly address that question.
     
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  16. Seacliff

    Seacliff RPG Maker Mastermind Veteran

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    Yay and nay. I don't think it's a good idea to generalize, despite agreeing with most of your post, but everything you stated contains both pros and cons. I prefer to be objective, but for the sake of argument let's view your points through a more optimistic lens.

    #1 Updates and Patches
    I remember a time when a game ships broken and contain bugs, you were either screwed or had to shell out the money for the same game again. (RIP 8 in-game years of Harvest Moon DS). While yes, this encourages developers to be less strict with their first print releases, I rather have the promise the game will be fixed than nothing at all.

    #2 Sequels
    Admitingly iffy on this, as someone who despises the trend of sequels and reboots in the movie industry. But unlike movies, games are interactive mediums that have room for refinement in more areas than just writing and presentation. Many earlier games, especially if we go as far back as the 80s, feel very clunky because developers have yet grasped what design choices are required to make a game fluid and fun. Game sequels are often better received than movie sequels because the refinement of gameplay is a much less contrived reason to continue a franchise than a new plot line for a sake of a new movie.

    #3 DLC and Mods
    For mods, you could say the same for the old days. Maybe I'm exaggerating the argument by taking it back to the 80s (I'm going to assume you really mean the early 2000s, which I agree was one of the best eras of gaming), but the original 1986 Metriod is a game I find zero enjoyment in. However, there was a romhack called Metroid Mother that adds functions like save data and a minimap, making the game decent. My point is mods have been a part of the gaming culture for a while, and at least allow us to enjoy games we otherwise haven't.

    DLC, on the other hand, was a decent idea that got exploited. I'll admit that. The idea of playing a game, and realizing you could pay a bit more for extra content was more appealing in 2008 than it is now. Today, if a game is already good and gets worthwhile DLC (IE: Mario Kart 8 before the Switch port), I'm fine with it. But if the game feels sparse and the DLC feels like missing content, it comes off as cheap. So I'll give you this one.
     
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  17. kaukusaki

    kaukusaki Awesome Programmer Extraordinaire Veteran

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    I stopped buying games once the ps3 and Xbox 360 came out (couldn't afford it). Also my PC games had to work for XP since it's all I had to work with. Once work got in the way I no longer had time to play (only one day a week now) and upgrading to 7 and later 10 was for programming purposes only.

    I'm siding with nostalgia.
    *start opinion here*
    Also I think practices changed to make money in any way possible since it's difficult to get new IP out so AAA companies keep churning out what's safe. Casual and easy games are huge because the average gamer is 35 and don't have time anymore. The new stuff for the kids today is all about shiny realism so tight controls immersive story and unique soundtrack gets tossed to the wayside. *end opinion here *
    I never understood DLC because I always bought my sequels on physical media and was never a fan of downloaded games since I had slow internet and old computers to work with...
    I also don't like pay to win games because it feels like cheating. But the devs need to make money somehow and rich impatient gamers just want to complete the game and move on
     
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  18. FleshToDust

    FleshToDust Evented Madness Veteran

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    To me this is the image of modern gaming:

    [​IMG]

    I think games have gotten worse. Not mechanics wise. Mechanics wise games are improving and coming up with new ways of doing things all the time. Where I think games are getting worse is mainly bugs. AAA developers and publishers are getting lazy because it's very easy to put out a game even if it's broken and then release a patch later. This has given in my opinion modern gaming a very bad reputation which makes people question it.

    Another thing I don't like in gaming is developers putting certain political views in their games and it's obvious they are trying to influence the player politically. DLC is also a problem but I think that's minor but microtransactions seems to be the thing that can make or break a game marketing wise. There is a lot of negative things you can point to regarding modern gaming.

    All these things aren't really gameplay mechanics so if you exclude them and look just at the gameplay then it's probably partly nostalga. Playing an old game you enjoyed as a kid and saying "man games aren't what they used to be". Nostalga is a good thing but it's easy to ignore bad design decisions because of fond memories.
     
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  19. OM3GA-Z3RO

    OM3GA-Z3RO Wounded Seraphim Veteran

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    Not sure if it's nostalgia, I just haven't been "WOW'ed" by a game for a while now, maybe I am just getting old and games are becoming too predictable. Everytime I play those so-called Triple A title games I can see there being a pattern and every game is following his pattern, it's old and it's very boring. I just want a game that doesn't focus on graphics and gameplay and makes a story that can "wow" me again but unfortunately, big game companies just wanna rake in the cash I guess
     
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  20. Darkanine

    Darkanine ...In my thoughts and in my dreams... Veteran

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    I sparsely buy games anymore, much less modern ones, but I think it's unfair to say games on the whole suck now. I love the classic era of RPGs, but Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth is in my top 5 favorite RPGs of all time, despite it being released a few years ago.

    If there's one thing I agree on, it's a lot of modern games seem to lack personality like the classics had. I was playing Bully and Destroy All Humans recently, and those games ooze personality and charm, with crude senses of humor. I didn't really see much personality wen I played, say, Destiny 2, the characters all seemed so muted and flat and the designated "comedy characters" seemed out of place and just weren't endearing to me.
     
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