RMMV Is Javascript worth the effort?

[Jiggykoopbob]

I don't really know a better place to post this. But is it really worth it learning Javascript? I'm not actually going to publish a game in the RPG maker engine anyway for... reasons. Eventually i want to move on to way less limited engines like Unity or Unreal and make a true video game in one of those engines. Is it in that case worth the effort to learn Javascript?

 

[ShadowDragon]

yes and no, depends what you want to do and function you like to make,
while most exist, you can extend it and create your own.

but if you cannot code js in general (like me) and self learn, you can
try or do with the plugins out there that exist.

but if you want something unique and no help at all, than it could
be handy to learn js

 

[Andar]

less limited engines like Unity or Unreal

those engines might be "less limited", but because of that they also need more programming knowledge to achieve anything.

So if you want to go any route, you have to learn how to programm.
That is specifically NOT dependend on any specific computer language - if you learn how to program correctly, you'll be able to program in every computer language ever developed.
(anyone who claaims that they can only program in one computer language never learned the basics of programming, because with those basics you only need a reference book for the language to program in a new language)

However you have to start with one language to learn that, and which language that will be is your choice.
It could be javascript or C++ or something else.

But no matter what you choose, it will take quite some time to reach the point you want to be at - and that time will be measured in years, not in days.

 

[bishiba]

In my opinion, doing things here makes it a bit more easy to get into it. Javascript is relatively similar to both C# and Java, most likely even to C++. So if you want to be able to create something nice and useable from the start then using RPG maker would be a decent idea. You'll have time to screw up and it'll still work. But you'll also get the fundamentals of programming, but don't forget that javascript does offer way more flexibility than other programming languages, whilst also, obviously lacking more complex features and engines that are optimized for games.

But, if you are aiming for C++ or C#, which it seems like considering Unity uses # and Unreal uses ++, then I would recommend that you go for those languages.

I would imagine that if you really know that your goal is a game engine you don't need to start in another language. If you want to program in C, then don't waste time learning javascript. When you know C you also know javascript, if you catch my drift. But if you learn javascript then you'll just need to adjust into C later. Not impossible, but if you want to reach a place within a certain period of time. Then go with the goal.

 

[Arthran]

I don't really know a better place to post this. But is it really worth it learning Javascript? I'm not actually going to publish a game in the RPG maker engine anyway for... reasons. Eventually i want to move on to way less limited engines like Unity or Unreal and make a true video game in one of those engines. Is it in that case worth the effort to learn Javascript?

It kinda depends on your intentions for the future. If you have any intentions of working a programming or IT job at any point, then it's good to have some JavaScript experience under your belt. For better or for worse, JavaScript isn't just for web development anymore. A lot of companies are starting to use JavaScript for desktop applications, because it's a cheap and easy way to ensure cross-platform compatibility.

Even people who work IT, but aren't developers, might have to use JavaScript. My friend is a Sysadmin, but he still has to use JavaScript to automate things through some framework or another. So even if you have no intentions of being a web developer, or a developer at all, the knowledge could still come in handy some day, and having some JavaScript experience on your portfolio certainly wouldn't hurt.

But regardless of all that, you're still going to need to use some programming language or another in whichever game engine you wind up using, and a lot of the programming concepts that you learn in JavaScript will be applicable to those other languages as well, so even if the above situations don't apply to you, learning JavaScript wouldn't be a total waste either way.

Eventually i want to move on to way less limited engines

Just FYI, if you do know JavaScript, then RPG Maker isn't limited at all. I mean that literally. The entire engine is written in JavaScript, and you can change literally anything that you want.

 

[Nolonar]

If you have any intention of working in IT, knowing JavaScript is advantageous, since it can be used in many fields, such as:

• Blockchain & IoT (IBM Red is way easier to understand and use if you know JavaScript)
• Cloud (AWS Lambdas support Python and JavaScript)
• Backend (NodeJS uses JavaScript and TypeScript, the latter is based on JavaScript)
• Frontend (Angular, React, Vue, etc. all use JavaScript or TypeScript)
• Databases (MongoDB uses JavaScript)

There's also a number of specialized applications for JavaScript:

• WebViews in Android/iOS/Windows
• Pepper's tablet
• RPG Maker MV/MZ (you are here)
• Browser games

And of course, learning how to use JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is trivial if you already know JavaScript.

Even if you're absolutely certain you'll never need JavaScript, learning it is not a waste of time if you intend to one day learn another programming language. That's because programming is less about knowing which word does what, and more about knowing concepts.

For example, once they've reached a certain level, programmers no longer care if the have to write:

if (condition) {
    // do something
} else if (otherCondition) {
    // do something else
} else {
    // do yet something else
}

or

if condition:
    # do something
elif other_condition:
    # do something else
else:
    # do yet something else

What they care about, is knowing that there's a concept known as "conditionals". This is what allows them to google for "python conditionals" whenever they forget that Python uses elif instead of else if, or whenever they forget that VBA requires a "Then": If condition Then

By learning JavaScript, you will also learn about those concepts. Not all of them, of course. JavaScript doesn't have a concept of "typing" or "type safety", for example. But once you choose to move to C# (Unity) or C++ (Unreal), then learning about type safety is much easier when you don't have to learn everything else at the same time.

 

[Trihan]

You've already gotten some great advice here, so I just want to touch on something you said: RPG Maker doesn't not make "true" video games. The games you might make with it are as much true games as those made with any other engine. The engine isn't what makes a game good or not.

 

[TheoAllen]

Look, I code in Ruby for years in RPG Maker as my starting point. Otherwise, I didn't have many interesting projects to experiment with and learn back then. It was not a widely used language, but I did it anyway.

Learned how to javascript from scratch. Mostly just googling "JS how to filter array" because I know it was a thing in Ruby, probably it exists in JS too. And many other "tools" I knew in Ruby. What do I end up at? Back-end dev with SQL and .NET. I started from Ruby. No problem.

Learning javascript as a starting point is more advantageous due to the reason that had been mentioned. If you want to jump to a different language, start to learn what makes that language, a language.

Saying C# is similar to javascript, in my opinion, is misleading. The syntax might be similar, but the fundamental is not. You don't need to learn "How to write if-else in C#", that is too trivia to learn once you know how to write it in another language, it is a matter of getting used to a new syntax. Instead, learn something else. For example, In JS, you can have a dynamic size array, but in C#, you're forced to define the length of an array. Or else, you have to use a linked list (it is your homework to find out). So, a solution that can be solved using a specific JS quirk may not be directly applicable to another language.

 

[Jiggykoopbob]

You've already gotten some great advice here, so I just want to touch on something you said: RPG Maker doesn't not make "true" video games. The games you might make with it are as much true games as those made with any other engine. The engine isn't what makes a game good or not.

I called games not made with RPG maker "true video games" because i think it takes a lot of time for one to make an RPG maker game stand out. Like i don't know how much lines of code you will have to write to make something like an actively zooming camera or add visible shadows to certain events and the player character in the overworld. I know there are probably plugins out there to do that, But i am sort of the "i only wanna deeply dive into this if it is really worth my time" kind of person.

To be fair, I do have some programming knowledge. I used to know the basics of Lua back when i still played Roblox. It was actually relatively simple to get used to really.

Also this site that documents all the Javascript... uh... terms? and structures of the MV code?... doesn't communicate things all too well to me. Like i have no idea what an Inherited method or a Constructor is.

 

[kirbwarrior]

i think it takes a lot of time for one to make an RPG maker game stand out.

It takes a lot of time (years) for one to make a game stand out. If you spent two years doing 8 hours a day five days a week on making a game after a year of learning an engine to get the most out of it and learn its limitations with a similar time frame, you'll get a similar result regardless of if you did it in RPG Maker, Flash, Unity, or C. The only difference with RPG Maker is you can make a game that doesn't stand out in month, week, or even day fairly easily.

 

[Jiggykoopbob]

Can someone at least point me towards a good beginners tutorial forum post?

 

[eomereolsson]

Not RPG Maker specific, but i always quite like the w3 schools.

JavaScript Tutorial

W3Schools offers free online tutorials, references and exercises in all the major languages of the web. Covering popular subjects like HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Python, SQL, Java, and many, many more.

www.w3schools.com

 

[ATT_Turan]

Even if you're absolutely certain you'll never need JavaScript, learning it is not a waste of time if you intend to one day learn another programming language. That's because programming is less about knowing which word does what, and more about knowing concepts.

This. Absolutely this. The only formal schooling I've had in coding was using C++ and a bit of Visual Basic. But I've coded working programs/games in C++, C, JavaScript and done shell scripts and stuff in Python and Lua...

Saying C# is similar to javascript, in my opinion, is misleading. The syntax might be similar, but the fundamental is not...For example, In JS, you can have a dynamic size array, but in C#, you're forced to define the length of an array. Or else, you have to use a linked list (it is your homework to find out). So, a solution that can be solved using a specific JS quirk may not be directly applicable to another language.

So I understand what you're saying...I'm not sure I entirely agree with it. I haven't used C# specifically, but what I would consider the most fundamental stuff is common between most of the C-like languages. For example, if I were to use fundamental syntax and not rely on any language-specific tricks, declaring an array is the same (only in C/++ you need to declare the type, whereas JS you just declare the scope).

What I do think (and I think is basically what you're saying) is that you should be properly educated in the language you choose to learn, so that you understand which things you're doing are a JS-specific quirk, as opposed to a standard concept. I just wouldn't say it's at all misleading to say that JavaScript is similar to (essentially the same as) any of the C-based languages.

RPG Maker doesn't not make "true" video games. The games you might make with it are as much true games as those made with any other engine. The engine isn't what makes a game good or not.

I called games not made with RPG maker "true video games" because i think it takes a lot of time for one to make an RPG maker game stand out.

You saying that makes me think you don't have a good point of reference for games that "stand out" made in any other engine. There are as many garbage Unity games floating around Steam as there are RPG Maker ones. They don't look any more appealing to me simply because they're in 3D...a lack of effort and skill shows in a product regardless of the tools used and the visual style.

Also this site that documents all the Javascript... uh... terms? and structures of the MV code?... doesn't communicate things all too well to me. Like i have no idea what an Inherited method or a Constructor is.

I don't know what "things" you're expecting a reference library to communicate to you. That document isn't supposed to teach you what inheritance or constructors are, you taking some kind of courses is (or just looking it up, like Googling "JavaScript constructor").

Can someone at least point me towards a good beginners tutorial forum post?

I am 99% certain that I have, in your prior posts and status feeds, recommended to you the exact same tutorial Web site that eomereolsson just did. So, like, you've been pointed repeatedly

I would suggest you skip the first two chapters (Where To and Output) as they are very specific to JavaScript that's embedded in Web sites. Start on Statements.

 

[TheoAllen]

@ATT_Turan You get what I mean, but my opinion stands. They are kind of misleading. What should be said is not specifically saying JS is similar to C#, but rather, a broad concept such as "programming languages are similar to each other, thus learning any language could help you learn/get started with other languages". But at this point, we're just talking about schematic rather than the point.

 

[ATT_Turan]

You get what I mean, but my opinion stands.

That's absolutely fair

 

[Tamina]

I don't really know a better place to post this. But is it really worth it learning Javascript? I'm not actually going to publish a game in the RPG maker engine anyway for... reasons. Eventually i want to move on to way less limited engines like Unity or Unreal and make a true video game in one of those engines. Is it in that case worth the effort to learn Javascript?

Short answer: I would say no based on your goal described.

Long answer:

If your only goal is to "make a game in Unity or Unreal", then you can start now without learning how to code at all. Unreal has Blueprint and Unity asset store has tons of frameworks, visual scripting and finite state machines that allows none coders to create games.

When I started learning Unity it took me 3 days of watching tutorials to create a functional platformer game with a complete game loop, then a another 2 weeks to complete a 30 min adventure game with just story and puzzles. I wrote 0 code. So coding really isn't required to "make a game".

That being said, if you want to create your own game mechanic instead of using mechanics created by someone else, you will need to code regardless of engine. Or at least use visual scripting.

If your goal is to become a game developer I'd say C# is far more useful in the industry. JavaScript is useful if you want a web developer job.

This. Absolutely this. The only formal schooling I've had in coding was using C++ and a bit of Visual Basic. But I've coded working programs/games in C++, C, JavaScript and done shell scripts and stuff in Python and Lua...

I'm not a programmer so I may be wrong about this, but isn't C++ a harder language, but Python is the easiest? If you learn something hard like C++ first then it makes sense that you can handle Python easily, but not the other way around.

I've heard people who learned Python or C# first couldn't handle C++ because it's too hard.

In other words, it makes more sense to learn a harder language if your goal is to master every language.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this

You saying that makes me think you don't have a good point of reference for games that "stand out" made in any other engine. There are as many garbage Unity games floating around Steam as there are RPG Maker ones. They don't look any more appealing to me simply because they're in 3D...a lack of effort and skill shows in a product regardless of the tools used and the visual style.

As a non coder who've used both engine on many solo dev games, I'd say Unity is certainly much easier to customize the looks and polish(aka more "artist friendly"). Customizing the looks in RM frequently requires coding or using plugin, or opening your Photoshop resizing/placing tilesets and sprites. Such issues aren't as bad in Unity.

The fact that there are many "garbage Unity games" is proof of how easy it is to create games in Unity: Anyone can download it, import a framework, change some assets and finish a game real quick.

RM still has better eventing and battle system than most Unity framework that I've tried, IMO. But the "editing art" side of thing is where it falls behind IMO.

That being said I agree that RM doesn't automatically makes a game "not real video game". If your game has a functional mechanic then it's real video game

 

[ATT_Turan]

I'm not a programmer so I may be wrong about this, but isn't C++ a harder language, but Python is the easiest? If you learn something hard like C++ first then it makes sense that you can handle Python easily, but not the other way around.

I've heard people who learned Python or C# first couldn't handle C++ because it's too hard.

In other words, it makes more sense to learn a harder language if your goal is to master every language.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this

I wouldn't necessarily say so. As several people have said, the most important part is the concepts. Once you have mastered the logical process of commands to code with and you understand things like variable, functions, conditionals and loops, I think you should be able to pick up whatever you like.

That's not to say that some languages won't be a bit more complex to use in a masterful way (the way C/++ uses references and pointers doesn't have an analog in some other languages), but in my opinion that's all stuff you should have the skills to look up and understand what you're reading to learn the differences.

Syntactically, Python is much more its own thing, so there would be a greater learning curve going from Python to C++ than from C++ to JavaScript. But, really, if one can write functional code in Python, I don't see any believable reason to claim you "couldn't handle" C++.

The fact that there are many "garbage Unity games" is proof of how easy it is to create games in Unity: Anyone can download it, import a framework, change some assets and finish a game real quick.

I don't see how that's any different...the point I was making was that both RPG Maker and Unity have lots of garbage games floating around app stores, Steam, etc. As far as I can tell, they're both easy to just dump something out, and therefore they both require an investment of learning, time, and effort to make a game that stands out, which was addressing the OP's point.

That being said I agree that RM doesn't automatically makes a game "not real video game". If your game has a functional mechanic then it's real video game

Absolutely.

 

[Jiggykoopbob]

Well there isn't really anything stopping me from mostly relying on plugins coded by other people. Right? Coding is not like learning how to paint. And in the end, Javascript is more suitable for web browser applications... I think.

 

[Andar]

Javascript is more suitable for web browser applications.

yes - but why do you give the impression that that is a bad thing?

when choosing a new language base in the transition from VXAce to MV, javascript was specifically selected and choosen exactly because it can run everywhere on all operating systems with little efford.
that is not the case with many other programming languages where the libraries differ between operating systems.

 

[Arthran]

And in the end, Javascript is more suitable for web browser applications... I think.

No. JavaScript is seeing a lot of usage for other things too. Due to Node.js, it's being used for a lot of server-side programming. And due to Electron and NW.js, it's being used to make desktop applications as well. In fact, you've probably got some of those desktop applications installed on your system right now, without even realizing that they're made with JavaScript. Discord, Spotify, and Visual Studio Code are some popular examples, off the top of my head.

It's becoming increasingly popular for these uses, because it allows you to deploy an application to all platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Web, Mobile, etc) using just one code-base. That, and it's free. Things like C# and such might be free for individuals like you to use, but if a business wants to use it, they gotta pay money.

I mentioned some of this to you already. Dunno if you didn't read it, or didn't believe me, or what. But for the record, I'm not shilling for JavaScript. In fact, I'd even say that I'm a little bitter that it is becoming so widely used outside of web development... but facts are facts, and JavaScript is taking over, whether I like it or not.

I'm not a programmer so I may be wrong about this, but isn't C++ a harder language, but Python is the easiest? If you learn something hard like C++ first then it makes sense that you can handle Python easily, but not the other way around.

I've heard people who learned Python or C# first couldn't handle C++ because it's too hard.

Admittedly, I actually did learn C++ first, so I dunno for sure how valid my opinion on this matter is, but I don't agree that one language is really "harder" than the other. Most languages use the same basic concepts, and just vary in syntax and have a few of their own quirks. I don't think that anybody who has an adequate mastery of Python or C# just straight up "can't handle" C++. Once you learn to think and solve problems like a programmer, it shouldn't really matter what language you use.

Now what you're *doing* with a particular language can be harder. For example, if I'm going to write a driver, or be doing stuff that requires access to specific bits, a lot of pointer operations, etc... I wouldn't generally want to use Python or C#. But that doesn't necessarily mean that C++ is a harder language... it's just better suited for harder things.