Is mouse for movement important?

[Tsukihime]

I'm sure there are a number of games where you can click to move...but that seems kind of strange within the scope of a "typical" RM game. I'm thinking of controllers: can I play final fantasy or dragon quest with a joystick? Or would I?


Are the WASD or arrow keys not enough for movement that you need a pathfinding mouse movement script for your game other than the novelty factor?


I find that a lot of mouse scripts especially place focus on their ability to move the player with a mouse. Seems like a questionable feature to me.

 

[Lunarea]

Some commercial games hoping to launch via game portals have to have a mouse - it's the game portal's requirement.

So it's not always a question of novelty and usefulness.

 

[cabfe]

It depends on the kind of game you're playing.

And even then, it is not set in stone.

Dungeon crawlers, for example, started as keyboard-only games.

Then the mouse support came and there were mouse-only dungeon crawlers !

Finally, we now have a mix of both.

I guess there is no rule, after all.

Why should RM games be keyboard-only ? Just because they started like this ?

 

[Shaz]

I think it really depends on your target audience. If you're planning to release your game to RM die-hards, mouse control wouldn't be absolutely necessary. If you plan to release it to a more casual audience who are used to playing games with the mouse, then it's worthy of more careful consideration. Some portals will not accept your game if you don't have it.


Mouse control is not all about moving the player. It's about removing the need for a keyboard, so moving the player with the mouse becomes a necessity, not a novelty. If you're a mouse user, it's a pain in the backside having to swap between mouse and keyboard just because something demands the keyboard. You want to use one or the other, not have to switch back and forth. And given that movement is probably the most common thing you're going to be doing, it's necessary to incorporate mouse controls for movement if you're going to have mouse controls at all.


I would rather play a game with total mouse control, or none at all, than to play a game that had mouse control in some areas but not others. It's got to be consistent. For me, it's all or nothing.


If/when RM games ever become playable on mobile devices, tap to move will be very important. I know a number of previews I've seen have arrow buttons to tap on to simulate keyboard control, but that's a step backwards imo. Why add keyboard functionality to a non-keyboard device, and then have to implement a way to activate it?

 

[Tsukihime]

This is not a question of all or nothing.


It's "why not just keyboard-only movement, mouse for clicking on menu", as opposed to "mouse movement + everything mouse is required".


Maybe most PC games these days have "mouse-only" or "keyboard-only" options, but most of the games I've played (which are pretty old) require you to use both keyboard AND mouse in conjunction. Of course, these are old games, so the model is likely outdated.


Mobile games obviously have a different set of demands, but a mouse script is optimized for a real mouse, and not a tap interface, so that seems irrelevant.


This is obviously not a very accessible design, since some people may not have two functional hands, but accessibility aside...

 

[Galenmereth]

As long as you don't design your game for a touch interface (which is a completely different beast to tackle), then I see nothing wrong in assuming and designing for a mouse + keyboard combo. Personally I'd prefer that. All the really mouse heavy games I play still make great use of the keyboard which makes the experience far better. Torchlight 2, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2; arguably the mouse is key in all these games, but without the keyboard they'd be an absolute chore to play.

Personally speaking (again), I wouldn't play an RM game with mouse only, unless it was exceedingly well executed, designed completely from the ground up for it, and the gameplay was built around it from the get-go.

 

[cabfe]

I'm making my game with a mouse support but it can be played with only the keyboard as well.

Mouse should be an option, not a necessity.

I don't think the RM games which have mouse support actually *require* a mouse, do they ?

 

[Tsukihime]

No, but from what I have read in discussions on mouse support, it seems like mouse movement is an essential feature if your game were to implement mouse functionality (even if the mouse itself is optional).


That is, if I want to allow users to use their mouse, I need to allow them to use the mouse to move their player across the map.

 

[Shaz]

This is not a question of all or nothing.


It's "why not just keyboard-only movement, mouse for clicking on menu", as opposed to "mouse movement + everything mouse is required".

Actually, that's what I said. For some people, it IS a question of all or nothing. I do not want to play a game that requires me to use the mouse sometimes and the keyboard at others. I either want to use the mouse or want to use the keyboard. I do not want to switch because the game does not let me use my preferred controller in some areas.


And it IS a question of all or nothing. Your complaint is that mouse scripts have character movement by mouse, and you are saying it's not necessary. I'm saying it's inconsistent if they don't. YOU feel it is added as a novelty because YOU prefer keyboard movement. That is not necessarily the opinion of the scripters who wrote them, or of other players. Some people would ask what is the point of a mouse script if you can only use the mouse in menus, and not to control the player as well.


That it's a novelty, questionable, unnecessary, is an opinion, and each individual may agree or disagree with you. Those who are used to playing games with the keyboard are more likely to agree, those who are not, are more likely to disagree. So I go back to my original statement - it depends on the intended audience.

 

[Skyblade]

hi!

H just got RPGMAKER last night, and have hardly gotten any sleep!  ive been watching lots of tutorials and checking out the program



But so far i havent seen anything about mouse controls, where is that in the program to set?

Thanks for any help!

Most games ive played incorporated both the keyboard and mouse to control the game, but i think i remember Torchlight as having only a mouse?

Thanks for bringing this topic up or else i might not have known we could use the mouse! (now if i can just figure out how to enable it!)

 

[amerk]

I was a beta tester for a game back on RPG Revolution where the developer was planning to go commercial. The game itself was fine, but it incorporated a keyboard + mouse option. Basically, menu scenes and battle combat was mouse, and keyboard everywhere else.

This made the game frustrated since I always had to shift my attention from one device to another. What made it even more complicated was that I could still use the keyboard for menu interaction, as long as the mouse cursor was not on the menu, then the keyboard functions acted up and wouldn't let me make my selections unless I either just used the mouse, or grabbed the mouse to move the cursor out of the way.

Even more frustrating was the fact that the mouse cursor was not always there when switching to the menu, only about 30% of the time. I spent more time focusing on which device to use, and if switching over to mouse how to get back to keyboard since I preferred keyboard (after all, I'm using it for the rest of the game), than I spent actually enjoying the game.

My advice, include an all mouse feature and an all keyboard feature, if possible, and let the user decide which device they prefer by toggling either one on or off. Having them switch back and forth with each other is more headache than it's worth.

 

[Shaz]

But so far i havent seen anything about mouse controls, where is that in the program to set?

Mouse control does not come with any of the RPG Makers. You need to install one of the scripts to implement it.

 

[Dandydan]

I think mouse support is vital and I personally would not consider releasing a game commercially without it. The major reason is because it cuts out a major portion of your auidence. There are many people who simply will not play a game that does not have mouse support. Indeed, these days there are players who will not play a game without controller support. The arguement can be made that mouse support is not "really necessary" to enjoy the game but then it's not really necessary for anyone to pay you money for your game, either.

Go back to the point that many game portals require mouse support as feature to get listed. They are not doing this because they are jerks who want to torture the developer. They have it as a requirement because they know that the market demands it and a game which doesn't have mouse support generally sells less copies which impacts the portal's profits too.

"Or would I?"

In my view this comment alone illustrates one of the biggest flaws of many aspiring game designers. They conflate what they want to do with what the market wants. It never ceases to amaze me how some developers get wedded to certain design elements regardless of what their intended auidence actually wants. The question is not: would you use the mouse? The question is: would the person who is paying $10 for your game use a mouse? And the answer to that question is normally "yes" even when the answer to the first question may be "no".

 

[Kes]

I think it is important to permit either mouse or keyboard, not to require one or the other.  I would be seriously hacked off if I suddenly came to an area or a function (e.g. menus) where only one was permitted.

There is one practical instance where it is important that both are allowed.  If you have a dungeon with irregular areas of terrain damage (typically it's a poison swamp, or similar) then any sensible mouse user is going to want to switch to keyboard because the mouse cannot differentiate between tiles which give damage and tiles which don't.  But I would not prevent anyone continuing to use a mouse if they wanted to.  I might wonder about their level of common sense, but it's their choice.

 

[Shaz]

They could still use a mouse in such a case, but they'd make movements over smaller distances, maybe even step-by-step.

 

[cabfe]

There is a sequence in the game To the Moon where keyboard is prefered to mouse :


(Actual spoiler, don't read if you haven't played the game)

Spoiler

When you are back to the school and have to avoid traps thrown at you to slow you down, the game actually tells you to switch to keyboard to have a better control of the character.

 

[Eschaton]

I'd rather use WASD to move the character and the mouse to navigate menus. 

 

[estriole]

I'd rather use WASD to move the character and the mouse to navigate menus. 

agree with this here... if you decide to not include mouse movement support. MAKE SURE CHANGE THE CONTROL TO WASD. so you can fixed your left hand at keyboard and right hand at the mouse.

some possible combination:

MMO style: mouse to movement, choose which to attack, press keyboard shortcut to bring up menu and hotkey to a skill.

Counter strike style: WASD movement, mouse click for doing action.

 

[Kes]

Except I use the mouse with my left hand but am very comfortable using the arrow keys with my right so no, that option doesn't suit me. I would have thought many players would find WASD more awkward for tricky movement.

 

[Shaz]

And not all keyboards have keys in the same place. So WASD would be useless to people in certain countries. If you're going to allow it, best to allow user-customization - let them completely choose what they want to use.