Is Piracy Ethical?

[Tsukihime]

You're all still refusing to take into account any of the reasons behind the pirating and you're all still equating a download with an automatic lost sale (as if that is how it works). If you continue to refuse to see WHY you literally won't ever get past your bad arguments and I will keep repeating myself over and over until maybe, just maybe, you can finally grasp it.

Your assumption that a pirate would never have paid for it if it weren't available for free is wrong. And that's all your saying.


Digital products are not real products.


Things that are not tangible are worth nothing.


Effort and time is not worth anything either.


I'm not sure why anyone would need to listen to your points.

 

[Diego2112]

Personally, I don't care one way or the other-sure, might make me an amoral individual, but then again, I've never placed a lot of stock in petty morality. 

That is not to say that I go out and actively pirate software/other resources.  I don't.  I'm just saying that at the end of the day, despite the fact that as a musician, and it can, has, and DOES affect me, I just do not really care about the whole "morals" aspect of it.  People will say one thing to flatter you, while practicing something else entirely-they can say "Pirating is wrong" all day long, but at the end of the day, they're on YouTube jamming out to songs they don't have the license to play.

Case in point to anyone that's replied to this thread:  Do you ever stream videos on the internet through a site like Putlocker, Megashare, or other sites?  Do you build a YouTube playlist out of songs uploaded by users (not the official band pages/vimo)?

If you answered yes to any of the above, you have pirated. 

 

[Aceri]

I honestly think that Cyreides is just a troll. I mean we've all presented valid arguments as to why piracy is, if not morally wrong, legally wrong and continues to spout the same thing. He got his rise out of us and now he bailed, just like a troll.

 

[Mon Dez]

@Tsukihime

Of course they are points to not take seriously and anyone with a decent amount of common sense would see it.

I don't intend to see how someone could be so set on thinking that piracy is an okay thing, but of course people do it.

Some people pirate stuff and don't intend to pay for it. Some people pirate stuff and actually buy the things they pirate.

Overall this person leaving shows that he was pretty much bitter and couldn't come up with valid points so he does what a ignorant human being does. He leaves still pretending that everything is still right in the world.

 

[Archeia]

Piracy is not ethical. People pirate since they can't afford...it's as simple as that. But it doesn't mean they have the right to.

HOWEVER, there are reasons why I pirate and IDK why Cyreides insists that we have to state the reasons why they happen in the first place, but anyway.

An example is I bought Art Program X. The problem is, the fan translations (they all bought the JP versions legally) are far more up to date than what the English version provides. I asked Company A if I can use my english license on JP version or if it's possible to buy, no go. So I asked how to access the resources, they said no. So I attempted to buy JP version except I need a Japanese name. There's also a seclusion between the International audience and Japanese audience. There are FREE materials that are provided by the community that I can't get without the JP version. There's also plugins that does EVERYTHING I ever wanted to do that is Japanese only.

I need them now and I can't get the program. So I pirated it and got it all the while looking for a 3rd party person to help me buy the Japanese version. Simply put, I pirated because I was forced to. However, it doesn't mean that I have no right for the materials, they're free for crying out loud, since I bought their program, for the same price, and it's OUTDATED. And I'm even willing to rebuy the program in another language even if I have to contact over 9000 Japanese users to help me. I pirate with the intent to buy and necessity of the missing features of the program that wasn't provided for some reason other than the language barrier. 

Another reason I pirate is I want to see the missing features of a program when it's limited trial and how it will go with my workflow. If I don't like it, then I trash it never to touch it again.

It doesn't mean however that everyone is like this. A lot of people pirate without the intent to buy. They just want the game/program/whatever and use it for monetary or entertainment purposes.

It's a hobby, so I'll just pirate it.

I'm just playing the game, nobody is going to get hurt. I'll just pirate it.

Photoshop is too expensive for my hobbyist wallet. But I will take commissions using this program, question is if I'm going to pay for it. Maybe not. Since it's over $600 a pop.

That's where piracy becomes harmful. 

 

[Kread-EX]

This thread is embarrassing and not because of Cyreides.

A lot of the arguments were piracy = stealing and both Cyreides and Touchfuzzy explained why this is wrong. Failing that, you resorted to ad hominem, not-so-subtly implying Cyreides himself is a pirate and either has "no morals" or is an idiot, not to mention a troll (the best excuse to plug your ears). This holds true for a disturbingly large portion of the posters, the main exception being Touch.

If you guys are posting on a discussion thread just for circle-jerking and instant popularity grabbing via a "safe" opinion, then this doesn't paint a very good picture of you.

I don't even agree with Cyreides but the one-sided aggression is painful to watch.

 

[Mon Dez]

I admit I may have taken my terms of reasoning too harshly. I was in disbelief of how someone could disregard the hard work someone would place into their product and claim it's okay to pirate it because:

A. A person doesn't have the money to purchase the product.

B. The product is digital so taking it without paying is different than taking and not paying for a physical object.

I pirated long time ago and for the same reasons as Archeia, to test the product as a sample. I admit I pirated a software before, but I did buy the program full price as intended (did not wait for the discount) because I was pleased with the features I couldn't use. I buy everything with my own money because I saved for it and did it to support the owner of that product.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Here is the thing.

Whether or not it is stealing? Irrelevant to the discussion of whether it is ethical or not.
Whether it is causes a loss of sales? Also irrelevant.

Only two things matter:

1. The creator has the right to determine how his creation is sold and distributed.
2. As a luxury item, it is not a necessity, so the consumer has no rights to it that overrides #1.

The truth of the matter is, all that matters is one person is violating the rights of someone else. And in order to argue that infringing on someone else's rights is ethical, you have to prove a need to do so. Even if NO HARM IS DONE (which is why whether it causes a loss of sales is irrelevant), the onus is on you to prove that there was an actual need to violate someone else's right.

 

[??????]

I agree with the fact that sometimes piracy cannot be avoided. Sometimes there is no other way for you to obtain that which you desire, whether that be a program, music, films or whatever.

As stated previous, I myself have and still do pirate (on a regular basis) via torrents, youtube and 'youtube to mp3' converters.

The main reason I do this is because it is quicker. Sometimes it is due to insufficient funding.

Every single day I listen to music/watch cartoons (mostly pokemon) on youtube.

I will download a music track I like (one of my biggest hobbies is DJ-ing) without even thinking of the consequences.

I will happily stream a movie online giving no thought to the creator.

Hell, when I was around 12 I illegally downloaded RPG XP && VX via a 'double pack' torrent.

What i strongly disagree with is the 'statement' that performing such an act has no negative impact on another person, be it the developer/distributor or someone else..

It is this statement that annoys me.

Personally, I will continue to do so, not because I am a bad person, but because I (like many others) like to try things before I buy them.

Had I not illegally downloaded both rpg xp and rpg vx years ago, I would not be here right now.

I would not have even considered splashing out on vx ace when it came out.

I would not currently be saving my spare cash to buy new tilesets and commission artists.

I would not have been able to gain the skills I currently have - with regards to programming.

The reason I state this is to point out that *sometimes* pirating something can also have positive effects (in a round about sort of way). Even though I didnt like the old xp / vx program, it promoted the product to me, it made me aware that there was such a thing I could use to create my own game. And when I was able to fund my desires (became old enough to earn my own money), I did and still do.

I do not feel that anything I do (currently) is 'wrong', no doubt some of you will feel differently. As I previously mentioned, morals differ depending on the individual. Sometimes they can have positive impacts (in my case this was long term); however, most of the time, people lose out on various things, most notably - finance.

Also, personally, I do not think that there is that much of a difference between piracy and stealing and it is wrong in most situations.

I mean, was Robin Hood 'wrong' to steal from the rich and give to the poor?

The main thing that deters me from pirating something is whether it is a direct individual / small group that would feel the impact or is it a large corporation that already accounts for such activities.

 

[Tsukitsune]

Hmmm moral debates, always a fun topic.

I don't think pirating is as black and white as some are making it out to be.

There are many reasons why people pirate, not all of them are wrong.  Like Archeia who has a right to the product she paid for, while some people pirate to demo and end up buying the product in the end.  Those are just two examples.

It's also how you look at it I suppose, on one hand the creator doesn't lose anything, all they're losing is "potential" sales, nothing tangible, just imaginary could be numbers.  However they still have a right to get paid for the product they've created.  On that end I'd say it's wrong, but not as bad as stealing (physical) which they actually lose revenue.

I think of it if I were in the shoes of a creator, I know I don't speak for everyone and I don't intend to, but for me personally.  If someone pirates my game, I'm not going to give any mind to it, because again, it's only potential income.  Who knows, those that pirate the game could end up liking it and buy it, or perhaps help spread the word to people who do end up buying?  In that case that particular person who pirated my game actually ended up supporting me.

A little more to what Xenos was saying, what about livestreams of video games?  What about lets plays?  How many of you watched that content but haven't actually bought the game?  You gain access to content you didn't pay for, so is that wrong aswell?  You're depriving the creator of income they deserve, the same as pirating.

But no, again it's how you look at it.  It's still only "potential" income that the creator lost for those who didn't end up buying the product.  Not to mention the creator may have actually gained access to many more people who did end up buying the game after seeing it played, or perhaps they helped spread the word about it.

_____

Me personally, yeah I've pirated, and still do sometimes but not as often as before as I have a job now and can afford the things I want and I do want to support the creators that made the content that I enjoy.

 

[Tsaiuki North]

Some people are able to buy good things because they can afford them... why can they afford them? Because they worked. How did they work? They made products. How did they make products? Because people paid for what they made.

Why should person A who works to obtain the money to purchase something, have less/same rights than the person who didn't work for it?

Someone who pays for a product is contributing to society. 

Someone who pirates is not, and is taking advantage of those who do.

 

[echo]

Some people are able to buy good things because they can afford them... why can they afford them? Because they worked. How did they work? They made products. How did they make products? Because people paid for what they made.

Or Mummy bought them.  

But really.  Piracy is illegal.  Whether it's moral or not is irrelevant.  It's against the law, and you suffer the damn consequences for doing it.  If morality is an issue, you take it to your MP, or equivalent.  Maybe they'll be a little more open-minded.

#pc

 

[Tsaiuki North]

Or Mummy bought them.  

But really.  Piracy is illegal.  Whether it's moral or not is irrelevant.  It's against the law, and you suffer the damn consequences for doing it.  If morality is an issue, you take it to your MP, or equivalent.  Maybe they'll be a little more open-minded.

#pc

Cute.

But whether it's mummy or someone else, it was still paid for.

Whether it's moral or not, is relevent, as it's the topic . 

I'm not really sure where you were going with this.

 

[Celianna]

2. Do NOT discuss how to carry out illegal activities, or any illegal activities you have committed. This includes but is not limited to the use of illegal drugs and piracy.


Closed.