Is RPG Maker Cheating?
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The majority of people who play your game won't care about what tool you used to make it. That you made it from scratch instead of using software like RPG Maker won't change their experience of the game.
Bottom line is that RPG Maker is a tool meant to make game development of RPGs easier. And, like any other tool, there's no "cheating" or shame in using it.
While making something from scratch is a fantastic feeling, it's inefficient to do it if there's a piece of software that exists and can already be used to accomplish the same goal. Note that even in the commercial world, developers are licensing engines (ex. Unreal, Unity) for use when the existing engine makes it easier and faster to release the game. Just because an engine is used doesn't mean there's a lack of effort and time invested in the project.
Bottom line is that RPG Maker is a tool meant to make game development of RPGs easier. And, like any other tool, there's no "cheating" or shame in using it.
While making something from scratch is a fantastic feeling, it's inefficient to do it if there's a piece of software that exists and can already be used to accomplish the same goal. Note that even in the commercial world, developers are licensing engines (ex. Unreal, Unity) for use when the existing engine makes it easier and faster to release the game. Just because an engine is used doesn't mean there's a lack of effort and time invested in the project.
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No, I don't think using RPGMaker is cheating. Let's lay down a fact: Time = Money
When a person thinks to themselves like you are, "I want to make a game, but I'm not sure if I should make it from scratch or use an existing engine to help me build the game." The are given a choice they can sacrifice time and build an engine themselves, or they can sacrifice money and purchase an engine to help them build the game. Since time and money are equal variables, neither one option or the other is better than the other. It's only cheating if you say-snatch up an engine without purchasing it and then make a game and profit off of that. THAT is cheating. Using resources placed before you to save time in exchange for money is simply making a choice based on which you want to use.
Rather than looking at it from a standpoint on whether or not RPGMaker is cheating, look at your own values. Do you think you would like to save your money, use your time, and build your own engine? Great! Then, that is what you should do. Ultimately, it's your own preference.
As for comparing indie game development to huge studio development; that's foolish. An established company, like SquareEnix (since you use FF as an inspiration), has tons of people working for them and not only that they are being paid for the work they do. Indie game development, you only get paid as the end result (if you decide to make something commercial). Your time is twice as valuable, and I think trying to draw comparisons between a studio's choice and an indie game developer's choice isn't fair.
Once again it boils down to a case of time or money and what they would rather spend. Not one answer is better than the other.
When a person thinks to themselves like you are, "I want to make a game, but I'm not sure if I should make it from scratch or use an existing engine to help me build the game." The are given a choice they can sacrifice time and build an engine themselves, or they can sacrifice money and purchase an engine to help them build the game. Since time and money are equal variables, neither one option or the other is better than the other. It's only cheating if you say-snatch up an engine without purchasing it and then make a game and profit off of that. THAT is cheating. Using resources placed before you to save time in exchange for money is simply making a choice based on which you want to use.
Rather than looking at it from a standpoint on whether or not RPGMaker is cheating, look at your own values. Do you think you would like to save your money, use your time, and build your own engine? Great! Then, that is what you should do. Ultimately, it's your own preference.
As for comparing indie game development to huge studio development; that's foolish. An established company, like SquareEnix (since you use FF as an inspiration), has tons of people working for them and not only that they are being paid for the work they do. Indie game development, you only get paid as the end result (if you decide to make something commercial). Your time is twice as valuable, and I think trying to draw comparisons between a studio's choice and an indie game developer's choice isn't fair.
As for this statement, most people with no artistic skills use will hire an artist, which is understandable for a programmer/writer/musician/etc/etc. Is it cheating in that case that that one person developing their game decided to sacrifice money in order to acquire art and save themselves the time of trying to learn and then build their own art resources? No, no one would look at that as cheating. So it's silly to imply that the opposite is cheating as well.
Once again it boils down to a case of time or money and what they would rather spend. Not one answer is better than the other.
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I'm terribly sorry, but this is utter nonsense:
1) Not everyone can create a game from scratch, that's why we have RM.
The world isn't full of awesome artists and expert game developers that can create anything from 0.
2) The purpose of the tool is to make the work more easy, enjoyable and accessible to all the poor mortals that wants to create a game and that aren't neither artists or scripters. And calling this cheating sounds like an insult to me.
3) It's not an easy task (as you probably think) to complete a game with RM (yeah, even if you use other people's stuff), it's still a lot of work.
1) Not everyone can create a game from scratch, that's why we have RM.
The world isn't full of awesome artists and expert game developers that can create anything from 0.
2) The purpose of the tool is to make the work more easy, enjoyable and accessible to all the poor mortals that wants to create a game and that aren't neither artists or scripters. And calling this cheating sounds like an insult to me.
3) It's not an easy task (as you probably think) to complete a game with RM (yeah, even if you use other people's stuff), it's still a lot of work.
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If you say using public scripts is cheating, it's not really. The same goes to a lot of open source code for like unity and such where they even buy plugins like that sprite sheet thing to save time.
So no it's not cheating.
So no it's not cheating.
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I'd like to pitch in as a fellow programmer. I've made a few smaller games, and about two years ago I started work on a bigger project – a platforming game in Flash with simple gameplay mechanics. I based my engine on Flixel, but modified it a lot. In the end it was more my engine than Flixel, but it was a good starting point to learn things like blitting and variable timestep integration, as well as deterministic physics.
Let me tell you: Making your own game engine on the magnitude of the one you find in RPG Maker software is a lot more work than you think at first. A lot. If it's your first proper game engine, you will spend years making it and integrating the tools needed to make a basic eventing system, dialogue system, combat testing, database item structure, battle formulas for spells and abilities, conversational structures and switches / variable implementation. Oh, and tileset passability, perhaps autotiling (unless you want to spend more time making maps), animated tiles, a system for easily extending your engine if needed along the way. And then you'll realize it was far from optimal, and will kick yourself for not rewriting it. And at this point you haven't really made anything close to a game yet, because just solving the challenges in making that game and running it will take up so much of your time.
Using RPG Maker is not cheating, because it doesn't make the game for you. All it does is make the point of entry into making your game happen now, rather than in a year or two. And it's software that is tested and used by many thousands of active users all over the world, making the act of solving a problem that much easier. But again, the game will not be made for you; that's your job. It's the hammer for building your birdhouse, and it comes with a chisel, too, and a good few nails. But you'll have to draw that birdhouse yourself, design it and refine it, and when you're done, do you feel bad for having bought the hammer, the nails, and the plywood in a hardware store?
Let me tell you: Making your own game engine on the magnitude of the one you find in RPG Maker software is a lot more work than you think at first. A lot. If it's your first proper game engine, you will spend years making it and integrating the tools needed to make a basic eventing system, dialogue system, combat testing, database item structure, battle formulas for spells and abilities, conversational structures and switches / variable implementation. Oh, and tileset passability, perhaps autotiling (unless you want to spend more time making maps), animated tiles, a system for easily extending your engine if needed along the way. And then you'll realize it was far from optimal, and will kick yourself for not rewriting it. And at this point you haven't really made anything close to a game yet, because just solving the challenges in making that game and running it will take up so much of your time.
Using RPG Maker is not cheating, because it doesn't make the game for you. All it does is make the point of entry into making your game happen now, rather than in a year or two. And it's software that is tested and used by many thousands of active users all over the world, making the act of solving a problem that much easier. But again, the game will not be made for you; that's your job. It's the hammer for building your birdhouse, and it comes with a chisel, too, and a good few nails. But you'll have to draw that birdhouse yourself, design it and refine it, and when you're done, do you feel bad for having bought the hammer, the nails, and the plywood in a hardware store?
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In my opinion, if all other things equal, developers who have released a game from scratch have demonstrated much more technical prowess than developers who have released a game using RPG Maker. The workload is just simply significantly reduced with RPG Maker. However, although this view may be very Machiavellian, people generally would not care how a game is made as long as it's a quality game, especially if they had paid for it.
To define it as cheating? Maybe.
Many people would consider it as that, but since there are no absolute rules, outside of the legal domain, in the game development industry, it is up to popular opinion.
To define it as a handicap? Definitely.
Essentially everything you need to scrounge up an RPG is pre-programmed for you. All one would need to do is re-arrange them to have a chance at 'developing' a potentially outstanding game. There are even premade graphical elements available in RPG Maker, such as tilesets, sprites, and character artwork. Once again, the workload is significantly reduced with RPG Maker.
As an RPG Maker user, all I have to say for myself is that this is only a hobby of mine. I have no intentions of entering the game development industry for a career.
To define it as cheating? Maybe.
Many people would consider it as that, but since there are no absolute rules, outside of the legal domain, in the game development industry, it is up to popular opinion.
To define it as a handicap? Definitely.
Essentially everything you need to scrounge up an RPG is pre-programmed for you. All one would need to do is re-arrange them to have a chance at 'developing' a potentially outstanding game. There are even premade graphical elements available in RPG Maker, such as tilesets, sprites, and character artwork. Once again, the workload is significantly reduced with RPG Maker.
As an RPG Maker user, all I have to say for myself is that this is only a hobby of mine. I have no intentions of entering the game development industry for a career.
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The cheating feeling comes from the fact that you can build a great game without a core essence (that being programming) by using pre-existing scripts. In the industry, programmers are always needed but you can make a good game without one in RPG Maker, which feels like something is missing. Even though making a game from scratch is inefficient, it feels like a better option for me as I would like to become a game programmer. Having that experience over using RPG Maker would really help.
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As someone had said before. It's all about your values.
And values happen to be subjective, especially if money is a factor.
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But here's the thing though: Making a game from scratch is doing a lot of work that has been done thousands of times before. While programming your own core game loop, a rendering solution, bitmap blitting, tile-rendering and everything after that, you will have acquired the help from a hundred different people along the way. By looking at stackoverflow and all kinds of programming resources, like books and courses. And that engine you've got there solves a problem that has been solved a thousand times before, but better. Your first ten game engines will be inferior, trust me on this. I have quite a few under my belt, and I still can't claim to make an engine as efficient as those you find in games from twenty years ago.
And so the question becomes: What is the value of starting from scratch here? If it is a sense of personal pride and fullfillment, then that is perfectly valid, and something you should pursue. However, it doesn't provide you with any tangible benefits whatsoever.
There is a reason that professional game engines are seldom rewritten completely; many engines have a base that is over fifteen years old still. Why? Because rewriting it makes no sense; it provides no value other than chest thumping and wasting valuable time.
When it comes to assets like artwork and music, then things become a bit more complicated. These are the things the users will see and hear repeated, and so here the value of making it your own is higher, and more concrete. But again, using the RTP assets efficiently requires a lot of practice and time. It's not easy to efficiently use premade assets to make a beautiful game.
In the end, it boils down to this: A finished game is a rare thing. For every finished RPGM game out there, there are hundreds of forgotten projects, and hundreds more of custom engine prototypes. Games that nobody will ever see or experience. And so we have to ask ourselves: What is the most important part of making a game? I'd say it's to make the game, and not how you made it. But then again, sometimes I like to make a 2d engine in BASIC just for kicks – there is a lot of enjoyment in wrestling performance out of a DSi, for example. But just be aware of what your goal is
And so the question becomes: What is the value of starting from scratch here? If it is a sense of personal pride and fullfillment, then that is perfectly valid, and something you should pursue. However, it doesn't provide you with any tangible benefits whatsoever.
There is a reason that professional game engines are seldom rewritten completely; many engines have a base that is over fifteen years old still. Why? Because rewriting it makes no sense; it provides no value other than chest thumping and wasting valuable time.
When it comes to assets like artwork and music, then things become a bit more complicated. These are the things the users will see and hear repeated, and so here the value of making it your own is higher, and more concrete. But again, using the RTP assets efficiently requires a lot of practice and time. It's not easy to efficiently use premade assets to make a beautiful game.
In the end, it boils down to this: A finished game is a rare thing. For every finished RPGM game out there, there are hundreds of forgotten projects, and hundreds more of custom engine prototypes. Games that nobody will ever see or experience. And so we have to ask ourselves: What is the most important part of making a game? I'd say it's to make the game, and not how you made it. But then again, sometimes I like to make a 2d engine in BASIC just for kicks – there is a lot of enjoyment in wrestling performance out of a DSi, for example. But just be aware of what your goal is
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You said right: "in the industry".
We are (for the majority) just normal people with an hobby here, and not part of videogame industries.
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I never said it was easy, I acknowledge that its hard work, but the development process feels incomplete to me.
Well, its both. My life long dream is to create an amazing, huge RPG. Successfully doing that is more important to me than winning the lottery 10 times. I dont care if I make 0 profit, I just want to make a damm good RPG for loads to enjoy. Being a game programmer in the industry is just a bonus, something that may spring off this game. But making my dream game is just about the most important thing in my life, family aside
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That's fine. But that's also your preference. If you want to build a game from scratch, that's perfectly fine to do so. If you want to use RPG Maker, that's also fine to do so. But you're not going to find a black-or-white answer on such a gray issue. Especially if it's a moral issue.
That's cool. Good luck with that.
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They're two very different conversations, though.
If you are focusing on the game itself, then you should use the most efficient tool in creating that game. And this makes RPG Maker a strong contender, as it gives you the base to make the exact type of game you're looking for.
If you're focusing on programming experience, then RPG Maker is probably not very useful - unless you're planning to learn programming with Ruby and want a piece of software to test your logic in.
Trying to focus on both at the same time is very confusing, I agree. So, it helps to decide what your main goal is (game or programming experience) and choose the best tool based on that.
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I agree with galenmareth. Rpg maker is simply a tool, what you do with it is up to you. Even the simplest game takes some effort, but the possibilities are endless. If you're good at coding then why not write your own scripts, if you're good at pixel art you can make your own tiles and sprites from scratch. Parallax mapping is another option. With rpg maker you will get out what you put in, just like anything else so no, it's definately not cheating.
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I suppose writing my own scripts would help me feel less guilt, but then again with all these pre-existing scripts, it seems a little pointless since they can be finetuned to your liking instead. And yes I know I just contradicted myself with my original point
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None of this has to do with your original question anymore, which was whether or not RPGMaker is cheating.
Now you're simply struggling with your own values. No one can tell you what is better for you except for you. Take the understanding that using a tool isn't cheating and keep it in mind while you make your decision, but ultimately, none of us here can answer where the direction of this thread has gone now: What should YOU do?
Now you're simply struggling with your own values. No one can tell you what is better for you except for you. Take the understanding that using a tool isn't cheating and keep it in mind while you make your decision, but ultimately, none of us here can answer where the direction of this thread has gone now: What should YOU do?
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And one more point I'd like to add. Not everyone can make an awesome rpg that everyone will enjoy. Even being the best programmer in the world doesn't mean you can make a good rpg. You need to be good at telling an original, gripping story, create interesting characters and be able to balance things like combat. I've played plenty of flashy RPGs that I've been disappointed in because of a lack of a good plot. Rpg maker is also a great tool for working on all these aspects.
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I'm going to throw you an example and you can take what you want from it.
Let's say I want to create a new database system. I could create/program my own software for said database sure, but I could save a lot of time, frustration, and/or money by just buying software someone else had already created for it, and tweak it a little for my specific needs. Why do the work if it is already done for you elsewhere?
Creating a game is no different, nor is it a contest. If you can take a shortcut that will lead you to where you want to be much easier, there is no shame in it.
Let's say I want to create a new database system. I could create/program my own software for said database sure, but I could save a lot of time, frustration, and/or money by just buying software someone else had already created for it, and tweak it a little for my specific needs. Why do the work if it is already done for you elsewhere?
Creating a game is no different, nor is it a contest. If you can take a shortcut that will lead you to where you want to be much easier, there is no shame in it.
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