Is RPG Maker just a cookie cutter?

Bricabrac

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Yeah I've been doing my best with the graphics, but it's near impossible to change 2003's battle system. If I could, I would.
You can always build one from scratch with events! It's not the easiest task, but definitely doable.
A good example of excellent stuff you can do with events alone is Standstill Girl's battle system:

Or maybe consider just... Not having battles at all? I know nothing about your game; but if your focus is on the plot, maybe the battling itself would be just padding.
 

LightDiviner

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You can always build one from scratch with events! It's not the easiest task, but definitely doable.
A good example of excellent stuff you can do with events alone is Standstill Girl's battle system:

Or maybe consider just... Not having battles at all? I know nothing about your game; but if your focus is on the plot, maybe the battling itself would be just padding.
I plan on making games that don't focus on battles, but the first one I'm making is meant to be a sort of tribute to classical RPG's, like Final Fantasy and Crono Trigger. And what would a classical RPG be without battles? I already have plenty of ideas for RPG's that don't need battles though.

Also that battle system reminds me of Bravely Default.
 

Chaos17

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So, I've been using RPG Maker for months now. I find the program very useful. Let's me make the maps easily, make my own characters and write the dialogue, allows me to do coding within the software to change it. However...my family just doesn't seem to understand. They keep calling it an, "Easy way out," or, "Using a cookie cutter." I try my hardest to explain to them how successful people who use it can be, but they just refuse to listen. They say I NEED to make my own code, use C-Sharp, code from scratch. I'm no good at that stuff, but they think I have to, or I may as well give up. It's not true, right? Will this not be a good program to be a permanent game developer?
You should not care because what count is sales if you want to go commercial, players don't care what engine you use. I've seen the other an R-18 rpg maker games at 4-5$ sold to 10k+ copies, so yeah creating from scratch is useless if you've en engine which already do it for you the most tedious part.

Because what the people who critics you don't know if that you've to copy pasta codes to make a dialog box show, yeah hard coding a dialog box isn't that cool to do then copy pasta that code at every dialog haha.
 

Pine Towers

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I decided not to re-invent the wheel
THIS.
Look, I play (and this is an important choice of word) with RPG Maker since when it wasn't released in the west. Bought MV at day 1. I don't aim to profit from it. It is a hobby of mine.
Some people like to reinvent the wheel. Write their own engine, even OS (see Windows vs Linux) or browser. This can be nice, specially if you studied programming at college. I don't work with programming languages, but tried to learn python after some research. Did some nice things, can now read some code and write pseud-code to help people, but the amount of work needed is more than my free time or my will.
So RPG Maker comes to provide me an engine. Yeah, it isn't exactly what I wanted - for that I would have to program it myself - but I can tweak it enough for my tastes. Working within the engine limitations also tests my creativity.

There's no right or wrong on using an engine - wrong is bashing people for using it or not.

I've seen the other an R-18 rpg maker games at 4-5$ sold to 10k+ copies
This share of the market uses (the """"""""dreadful""""""") RTP graphics, but make a profit because are cheap games, and the original art appeals to the buyers. The game is more of an excuse, but yeah, they profit.

If you want to have fun and some a couple games, even commercially, no problem using RPG Maker as an engine. It is as if you're racing with your car.
The moment you want to get serious, you may want to learn/create an engine for yourself. Because for any serious racing, people will build their own car instead of buying a generic one.
 

FleshToDust

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f1 builds their own cars but that's AAA million's (half a billion $ budget). Building your own engine to make your own rpg would take a long time... A very long time, especially if you're by yourself.
 
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Gallia

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I can't say RPG Maker is a cookie cutter.
It is easier to use than other engines but that doesn't mean its bad.
I use RPG Maker because i like oldschool games.
 

LightDiviner

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THIS.
Look, I play (and this is an important choice of word) with RPG Maker since when it wasn't released in the west. Bought MV at day 1. I don't aim to profit from it. It is a hobby of mine.
Some people like to reinvent the wheel. Write their own engine, even OS (see Windows vs Linux) or browser. This can be nice, specially if you studied programming at college. I don't work with programming languages, but tried to learn python after some research. Did some nice things, can now read some code and write pseud-code to help people, but the amount of work needed is more than my free time or my will.
So RPG Maker comes to provide me an engine. Yeah, it isn't exactly what I wanted - for that I would have to program it myself - but I can tweak it enough for my tastes. Working within the engine limitations also tests my creativity.

There's no right or wrong on using an engine - wrong is bashing people for using it or not.


This share of the market uses (the """"""""dreadful""""""") RTP graphics, but make a profit because are cheap games, and the original art appeals to the buyers. The game is more of an excuse, but yeah, they profit.

If you want to have fun and some a couple games, even commercially, no problem using RPG Maker as an engine. It is as if you're racing with your car.
The moment you want to get serious, you may want to learn/create an engine for yourself. Because for any serious racing, people will build their own car instead of buying a generic one.
All I really wanna make is classic top-down RPG's. That's gonna be my genre. I don't think I need a whole engine for that. Also I agree, the RTP is rather bland. Tilesets at least are. The monsters and charsets aren't that bad. Least that's how it is in 2003. I haven't used any later ones so I wouldn't know.
 

Archeia

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Just my two cents and something I found odd about the claim that RM not being an engine.

An engine's job is to give you an easier time to create what you want. Calling it anything else feels really silly. There are many types of engines for game dev as there is for cars. If a text based, MS-DOS program can be an engine, why can't a UI-based game engine like RM not be an engine? Variety is the spice of life.

And unless your game is visually heavy like a game I'm working on that has handdrawn frames, cannot be modulated and everything that forces me to hack around RM from a technical level, RM would do just fine for whatever you want as long as the basic concepts is there:

1.) Tile based
2.) 2D (aka you don't need features that can be found in 3D game engines)
3.) Turn-based battle system
4.) You don't have a lot of animations that reaches 20+++ frames.
5.) You don't care about adaptive game music.

It's just how you tackle it that would change the experience.
 
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Zeriab

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Can RPG Maker be used to create cookie cutter games?
Yes

Can RPG Maker only be used to create cookie cutter games?
No

Does matter?
No, it does not.


I do tend to look down on such people more than I should. It's just a minor flaw after all. Don't worry to much about it. Not looking into using various frameworks and engines to help create your game is not very pragmatic.

*hugs*
- Zeriab
 

Tricimir

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While it's not the easiest way to go about things, RPG maker isn't NEARLY as limiting as people tend to think it is.
back in my 2k3 days, I made all sorts of engines within the program just because I wanted to see if I could. They included:
8 directional pixel movement with full animation (using pictures instead of sprites)
a simple platformer engine
a point and click adventure engine.
a psuedo-3d rail shooter.

and the fact is, that there's nothing particularly special about that.
The tools are all there, waiting to be used, it's just a matter of being creative with them. In some of these cases, it would have been easier and maybe even faster to use a different program or learn an actual language, but the point is, it's possible.
 

Ihavenoskin

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It's in the hands of the creator. A pencil can be used to draw a bad picture; or the finest piece of art ever seen.

Everything has a work around.

As a new user of RM; I did read some negativity about it being an easy way out... However I wanted to make a JRPG; so why would I even bother with anything else!

It's been amazing so far; I've actually applied some of my learning to my job too; since I have developers working for me (not games; I'm not that lucky!). When I mentioned variables and conditional branches (I even threw in a nested for fun) they were shocked and thought I'd been on a course or something LOL.

Anyway, who cares if your having fun and your games are good, then they are good. Don't be discouraged please :)
 

Niten Ichi Ryu

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My usual answer to people saying using RM is too easy is: Are you going on the Internet with a browser you created yourself? No, you use Chrome, Opera, Firefox, maybe Tor or even IE (kidding, no one uses IE) . So until you develop everything by yourself, STFU and let me enjoy my game making engine.
 

starlight dream

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Yeah I've been doing my best with the graphics, but it's near impossible to change 2003's battle system. If I could, I would.
What would you change about the battle system? Is there something specific that you don't like?
Just curious, in case something you would like can be implemented.
 

LightDiviner

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What would you change about the battle system? Is there something specific that you don't like?
Just curious, in case something you would like can be implemented.
I don't really know what I'd wanna change. If I had MV I'd have already gotten a plugin to change the battle system though. With me, I don't think about things ahead of time. It's like one large train of thought I'm riding.
 

Parallax Panda

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@LightDiviner

Well, I can see why you would want to change some details in the battle system if you had MV. There is always small things one can do to make the generic system fit your own game better. But I think RM2K3 have the best system as far the the generic foundations goes. In fact, there are many people who change the MV battle system to be more like RM2K3's! :kaojoy:

If you look at RM games on steam it's mostly some kind of generic front view battle system (from the VXace days), or lately, some variation of MV's side view battle system. Most RM games there don't use an ATB like you get in RM2K3 (some do).

Point being, even if you can't use scripts and plugins to enhance it at least you have a decent system right of the bat!
 

Tai_MT

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Here's the dirty little secret about "game design". Nobody designs a game from scratch. Not even the AAA games. Nobody just starts mashing out lines of code. For 1, it's criminally inefficient and would add YEARS to game development time. 3 Years is the usual AAA game development time. If they had to hammer out lines of code and all the bugs associated with that coding, they'd spend the first two years on just that. That's before they ever got to art design, game mechanics, world building, story, etcetera.

You see, the dirty little secret is that everyone is using an "Engine". Source, CryEngine, Frostbite, whatever. Why do they use an engine? Because it shaves YEARS off of development time. Most game companies buy an engine that someone else has already designed and then trains their programmers and devs in how to use it.

That's all RPG Maker is. It's an engine designed for ease of use to game developers who do not have a background in "mashing out code". You buy it the same as big AAA developers buy their engines.

A game company rarely develops their own engine as well. Maybe they used to, but not so much anymore. Usually, they contract it out to other people who spend their entire lives creating game engines to sell to companies, to make games with. It's big business to create game engines and sell them to corporations. Especially if they do neat things with graphics and physics and interfaces.

So, all you have to tell your parents or your friends, or whatever... Is that AAA game developers are using the same "cheat method" you are. They don't mash out games from raw code by hand. They buy an engine like you have, they program within the engines limitations, they change things within the engine that they can, and they hammer out a game the same way you are. The difference is that you're not beholden to anyone except yourself, so you can take more chances than AAA game developers. You're also more apt to read "game theory" and "player psychology" work than actual AAA game devs, because you're not programming for "The Lowest Common Denominator" playerbase. Namely, you can be more astute at designing a game than AAA game developers who only know how to work one program, or two programs, or how to work with a single engine, who are fresh out of school and only know about their field and not about overall game design.

Though, the question remains: "Is it important to know how to code in C++ or any other programming language?". Not really important, but it is useful. It's another color you can add to your canvas. In the same way it is useful to learn the Writing Craft or Art Design. These are things that add more colors you can paint your masterpiece with. If you could design your own menus or plugins, that could be valuable information for designing your own game, even if using RPG Maker.

But, is it necessary? Not really, no. Just like it isn't necessary for Animation Directors at AAA studios to learn about how to write dialogue for video games... or how to voice act. These places have teams with specialized departments and workers. If you don't have the ambition or drive to learn a programming code, then don't bother. Hire that role out if you want. You can, after all. Same with Art design. Storyboarding. Worldbuilding. Animations. Spriters. Composers.

Very few of us on these forums can do everything to do with game design well. Most of us end up hiring out for skills we just don't have, and have no desire/time to learn.

Honestly, the only reason to ever try to program something from scratch, is if you're going to be building an entire engine for game design that you plan to sell commercially. Learn the language if it interests you, but you should let your parents in on the dirty little secret of game design. Namely, that they have no idea what they're talking about.
 

LaFlibuste

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Yeah, people just don't understand how it works. Professional studios do this kind of things all the time, they use pre-existing engines, like the Unreal Engine or Unity. Why reinvent the wheel? Does a plumber have to re-create his saws and pincers and whatnot for each new job? Does he have to craft the pipes and faucets and everything he is going to use and install himself to be deemed a "real", "professional" plumber? Of course not, it would be absolutely silly. So why should a game developper not use tools and materials that are already at his disposition, why should he create everything from scratch each time?
 

CleanWater

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@LightDiviner just imagine this setting.

Enix decide to re-release their original SNES Dragon Quests titles on Steam and translate then for the first time to English (actually they did it to DS, but imagine they didn't), exactly the same way they were in SNES back in the day. Then some ignorant gamers of this new generation that never played any Dragon Quest from SNES see this screenshot in the Steam Store:


Now imagine the comments and reviews from these morons.
  • What this crap from RPG Maker with RTP standard graphics is doing here!?
  • Steam is for real games, not for this ****!
  • This game is ****!
  • Crap RPG Maker game!
  • Generic insult with crap word here!
  • Another generic insult with **** word here!
  • Etc, etc, etc...
Note: Dragon Quest is an award winning franchise that basically defined the classic JRPG genre.
 
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FleshToDust

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Imagine if square enix ported one of their early final fantasy games to steam with rpg maker.
Imagine the anger that would fill the RM haters.
That would be funny.
 

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