Is RPG Maker just a cookie cutter?

[CleanWater]

Imagine if square enix ported one of their early final fantasy games to steam with rpg maker.
Imagine the anger that would fill the RM haters.
That would be funny.

I would love to see that!

 

[LightDiviner]

I would love to see that!

I actually had some ideas to remake Final Fantasy Brave Exvius as a normal RPG with it. I kinda dropped it though.

 

[kaukusaki]

This debate again...
Rpg maker is a rapid development kit. It's only cookie cutter if you just run with defaults and placeholder and put little thought in your game . If you learn some advanced techniques you can make it jump through hoops.

All the other engines (game maker, cryengine, unity clickteam etc) are just rdk's in a nutshell. If you want to roll your own and make everything from the ground up go ahead but if you don't have a lot of time and money then just learn how to push your rdk to the max.
I've seen insane stuff done with engines even back in c64 days (showing my age here lol)
Anything's possible if you put in the time and effort

 

[FleshToDust]

@kaukusaki there's no need to be rude. the guy asked a legitimate question and people who are new don't know about that stuff. He's also young. You should cut him some slack.

 

[Chaos17]

THIS.
This share of the market uses (the """"""""dreadful""""""") RTP graphics, but make a profit because are cheap games, and the original art appeals to the buyers. The game is more of an excuse, but yeah, they profit.

If you want to have fun and some a couple games, even commercially, no problem using RPG Maker as an engine. It is as if you're racing with your car.
The moment you want to get serious, you may want to learn/create an engine for yourself. Because for any serious racing, people will build their own car instead of buying a generic one.

People should just try their best to make a good game, take example on Virgo who is successfully making a "kickstarter" campaign by using plugins from Moghunter and Yanfly but just customized them to her taste: https://www.fig.co/campaigns/virgo-vs-the-zodiac?update=464#about

Here's another example of an rpg game using Rpg maker Vx Ace asset rated -18 (but don't worry there aren't any porn picture in the link):
link removed
Owners: 46,905 - 62,373
Players total: 36,057 - 49,765 (78.54%)
Players in the last two weeks: 7,662 - 14,652 (20.42%)
Average playtime: 3 hours, 29 minutes
Average playtime in the last two weeks: 2 hours, 1 minutes

So yeah, I will repeat myself: players don't care what engine you use.

 

[kaukusaki]

@kaukusaki there's no need to be rude. the guy asked a legitimate question and people who are new don't know about that stuff. He's also young. You should cut him some slack.

I wasn't being rude. I don't think I sounded rude at all. How was my explanation to what RPG maker is used for in any way rude??? All I did was make a statement. Shall I add emojis or something?

 

[FleshToDust]

@kaukusaki when you tell someone to quit whining that is considered rude.

 

[kaukusaki]

There the post is edited so I won't hurt any more feelings. Happy now?

 

[LightDiviner]

@kaukusaki there's no need to be rude. the guy asked a legitimate question and people who are new don't know about that stuff. He's also young. You should cut him some slack.

How'd you know I was young? ._.

 

[FleshToDust]

@LightDiviner It says on your profile. You can hide that info if you'd like. Check your settings.

 

[bgillisp]

@Chaos17 : I don't think that's a good example though, as it seems like any game that is 18+ will sell on steam regardless of how bad it is.

 

[mlogan]

@Chaos17 I removed the link. The stats of the game are still visible in your post and that link contained a link to the game.

 

[Rukiri]

Keep in mind these kind of engines have been around for years too. Back in 1993, SSI decided to release their engine that they had been using for the Gold Box D and D games for anyone to buy for $39.99. I bought it when it first came out. Was it cookie cutter? Yes. But, I was able to use it to finish 3 games over the next 3 years, even if I was stuck using the D and D ruleset (the combat engine was hardcoded, as were the classes and spells).

But, what I remember most was it got panned by the critics at the time. They were like "Why would you want to even make such a game? Go learn to program."

So that attitude has existed since at least the early 90's, and apparently hasn't changed now.

The attitude has definitely changed since the 1990s, people are far more welcome and it comes down to the actual game not the engine. I would respond, so it get's what I want to do done faster and yea there are better engines out that but the same result will take far longer.
I'm using MV and Unity because an A-RPG is to much re-coding to the point I'm better off using something like unity but then I have projects where MV fits the bill much better. Like I said it comes down to the individual project

But what about Game Maker? It has a cookie cutter scripting language, and you'll learn bad habits. At least javascript has some standard, same with C#.

I used to have this EXACT attitude and when you get the same responses the attitude will follow others.

Edit: 11/25

Game Maker's Language has changed a lot to the point where my last statement is void however it is forgiving only if you're not using the YYC which is pretty strict as you're compiling native C++. I def like the new GMS2

 

[Semolous29]

It is cookie cutter. And it has a stigma that, in my eyes, is not entirely unfounded. Though, it does annoy when people see a game made with rm and pass on it just because of that. It's a stigma that should just go away tbh. Like someone said in another comment maybe people don't want to see other people succeed.

 

[LightDiviner]

It is cookie cutter. And it has a stigma that, in my eyes, is not entirely unfounded. Though, it does annoy when people see a game made with rm and pass on it just because of that. It's a stigma that should just go away tbh. Like someone said in another comment maybe people don't want to see other people succeed.

One of the main things I hate, is people hating the RTP graphics. Some people can't afford, or don't have the eye for desining that would allow them to have custom graphics. Like me. The #1 reason I wanna make RPG's is to tell epic stories like old RPG's in the SNES days. Story should be the best part of a game.

 

[ChampX]

But what about Game Maker? It has a cookie cutter scripting language, and you'll learn bad habits. At least javascript has some standard, same with C#.

To be fair, MV will teach you some bad habits as well. Plugins essentially make just about everything have global access and the $game variables are literally global variables, alongside switches and variables in the editor being global as well. The label/jump to label commands are the code equivalent of goto statements. Fortunately you can also minimize the pitfalls of bad practice if you are self aware and at least on the editor side of things, there isn't too much that can go wrong so it isn't a big deal mostly and are the way they are for beginner simplicity and historical reasons from older RM software (i.e. when software/games were written in C which used globals and gotos a lot).

I honestly don't think you can introduce cookie cutter software without some sort of bad practice being in place somewhere.

 

[TakeHomeTheCup]

Though, it's not like one should use MV as a substitute for learning JavaScript or programming.

 

[Failivrin]

@LightDiviner Why are you making a game? It's because the game you want doesn't exist yet. Take a moment to really absorb that: Game design is a multi billion dollar industry. People get degrees in it. They devote their lives to it. They form huge companies where hundreds of artists can contribute to each game on the market.
And yet... the game you want doesn't exist. If you're like me, you can hardly stand browsing the shelves nowadays. (Oh boy--MarioKart 27!!) Fact is, a lot of highly talented professional artists suck at making games. Corporations know it, and they don't want to invest in new ideas. Your friends and family can sling code all they want; it doesn't make them good developers, and it won't make you a better developer. Its just more tools in the toolbox--and to take an example from architecture, some of the finest structures in the world were built without hammers or nails.

 

[ChampX]

@TakeHomeTheCup You're right, but its not uncommon to learn RM first before learning a language as I did that over 10 years ago and got an easier grasp on some basic concepts.

@Failivrin The beauty of Indie vs Corporation is Indies can take risk. Corporations can not. We use this to our advantage. Corporations also aren't that much better in design concepts than people who have good grasp on basic game design, but instead have 8-16 hours in a day to constantly work on, test, and refine those concepts especially since you have artists and developers alongside to quickly see how well things are executed in practice. 1,000+ iterations of prototyping/testing/tweaking an idea is common for them, but pretty hard for us.

 

[Orgaya]

I'd play a well-written, well-put-together, fun-to-play RPG Maker game over a boring game created from the ground up.

I'd also love to know of a single AAA company who's rebuilding their code and engine from scratch every time they make a game.