Is Rpg maker the best choice to make a turn based tactical RPG ?

Chorizosss

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Hello,

I'm not good at programming and i'm wondering if an rpg maker ( MV, MZ or else ) is the best choice to make a turn based Tactical rpg (such as Divinity Original Sin , Wasteland 2 or Fallout 2).

In fact,some years ago, i put alot of work on a unity 3D project with some friends and unfortunatly the life splited our little group. So i tried to continue alone and it turns out i'm realy not good enough on programming so after several month trying i gave up.

I worked several years as graphist/designer in the video game industry and cinema so i can handle the design part but not the programming part. I'm realy not good enough at it.

So i thought about RPG Maker because it don't need programing ! Well... exept for the combat system i want as it doesn't come with the engine.

So, as you are RPG Maker fans, do you think it's doable ? Keep in mind that in the worst case i can pay someone to make a little part of programming for me but it must stay a little part. Do you think the engine can handle it and make something neat ?
 

TheoAllen

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So, as you are RPG Maker fans, do you think it's doable? Keep in mind that in the worst case i can pay someone to make a little part of programming for me but it must stay a little part. Do you think the engine can handle it and make something neat?
Doable? Can the engine handle it? yes.
Feasible? I'm not sure. It may require a lot of work depends on your requirement.

Please keep in mind that while the engine can be turned into any game you want, the editor is built for RPG with all the pre-programmed functions. Without knowing the engine in its default state, you might find it hard to do.
 

Chorizosss

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Doable? Can the engine handle it? yes.
Feasible? I'm not sure. It may require a lot of work depends on your requirement.

Please keep in mind that while the engine can be turned into any game you want, the editor is built for RPG with all the pre-programmed functions. Without knowing the engine in its default state, you might find it hard to do.

Hello!

Thank you for your fast answer :).
The thing is everything else seems to be already supported by the engine : when I worked with my friends on unity 3d, everything as to be programmed : character moves, map navigation, inventory etc.. Here everything seems OK exept the combat system.
It's a big part of a game but if the engine can handle it I think I can maybe pay someone to help me out with that...

I will maybe post later during development progress another thread with the exact explanation of the combat system I want and see if someone can help me out with it.

Thanks again for everything :) and if someone else want to give an opinion, please feel free to do!

I will keep thinking about buying rpg maker mz or not until the steam winter sales end and even if I still have some time, I'm still starving for your opinions!!
 

Aerosys

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I think there are some trial versions to test it out
 

Andar

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yes and no

the problem is the unit and movement AI. While the map contains events and event movement, none of that is linked to combat as the battles are in their own screens.

There have been different tactical battle systems over the time, and some of them even public, but they all were limited by the enemy AI. It is easier to program in a tactical system with the RMs than building the same in an engine that has no grid movement, but the RMs are basically a double-interpreted engine - the event interpreter runs on another interpreter (either RGSS or Javascript), and that reduces processing capacity.
To have even a chance of a halfway-decent enemy AI you'll need to go one step up and program it in RGSS or Javascript - forget about doing it as events. And that is the reason why most tactical battlesystems failed to gain popularity: the original programmer of the tactical script could write the enemy AI for his/her specific game, but no one else could adapt to that. Most users simply don't know javascript programming at all, much less AI-programming (which is the most complex of all).

If you can handle AI programming in javascript (or know someone who can), then it is very possible (but not easy).
If you don't have that skill available somehow, then forget the idea.
 

Jrrkein

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Things for tactical rpg is rather complex because you may need more javascript know-how to program the right AI for your desire game and to make AI balanced in away to handle complexity of the skills, if you don't know how to make it happen because you can't find someone or do it your own (lazy or lack of know-how) it's pretty much just pass along.

Things like victory conditions and defeat conditions again that too much in depth if you want to simply fulfill (thought they're quite handful for ace/mv but they don't have thing like really complex AI to meet action conditions for them to fulfill. Let alone if you want to make
 

Chorizosss

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Hello everybody,

Thank you for all your answers, i think i understand the struggle with AI and movement but when i see all the incredible Java plugins from this community i always see things with realy deep mecanics and that's not what i'm looking for.

Here is a sample of a fallout 2 fight and it's close of what i want :

(do not take the green wire targeting system screens into account as i don't want that)
As you can see, the npcs are just getting enough close to hit ( with firearm or knives/fists ) and they only use one equiped weapon ( no magical stuffs but sometimes grenades ). Sometimes they uses stimpacks ( self-healing ) and when they run out of stimpacks, they flees. It "SEEMS" (but again, i'm not a programmer) realy easier to script than all the incredible and very deep mecanics i see around here.

The things i do want in addition to fallout 2 system are (more important first and less important last ):

1-Play animation for npc and player if a hit is recieved or death occurs.
2-Bonus damage and precision if the player/npc is on a higher platform <== maybe put a tag into the tiles of the higher platform so the system can apply the bonus if the player/npc stand on this platform.
3-Taking cover <== even i can understand that it can be hard to script as the npc must find the right cover ( Box, barrel... <== maybe a tile tagged as possible cover ? ) and go in the other side of that tile.

And for the start of the fight, i wish that npcs can detect the player with a cone of detection that can evolve with brightness and player stealth hability, i illustrate this with the picture attached to this post ( need some deeper thinking but that's the idea ).

So what are you all thinking ? Is it simpler than the more complicated fight systems you maybe had in mind ?
 

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Frostorm

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If you're using MV, your options are LeTBS, SRPG, or Tactics System. I've listed these from highest to lowest complexity. I personally use LeTBS (LeCode's Tactical Battle System), and while it is very powerful, there is quite a learning curve to it. It is also no longer maintained. However, I chose it because it is the only 1 out of those 3 that supports individual turn orders (based on AGI/Speed). The other 2 uses a Fire Emblem style turn order (entire party acts, then entire enemy troop acts). SRPG is still actively maintained and its thread offers plenty of support. I highly recommend you check out these 3 plugins to see if they might suit your needs. Good luck!

Edit: As far as the 3 criteria you mentioned, I can confirm that LeTBS fulfills #1 & #3 (I love LeTBS's LoS mechanic), but #2 will require an additional addon plugin, but I've seen it done nonetheless. Check it out:

And for the start of the fight, i wish that npcs can detect the player with a cone of detection that can evolve with brightness and player stealth hability, i illustrate this with the picture attached to this post ( need some deeper thinking but that's the idea ).
For this, you can use either Galv's Event Detectors plugin or Yanfly's Event Proximity Activate plugin. I have tried both, and either one can get the job done. There are also stealth plugins available for that component as well. Just keep in mind you there is no single plugin that will do everything you want exactly, so you'll have to mix 'n match until you get the results you desire (this applies to many game types, not just yours). Oh, and AI is also built into LeTBS and is configurable. Not sure about SRPG since I don't have as much experience w/ that, but maybe someone can chime in.
 
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Chorizosss

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If you're using MV, your options are LeTBS, SRPG, or Tactics System. I've listed these from highest to lowest complexity. I personally use LeTBS (LeCode's Tactical Battle System), and while it is very powerful, there is quite a learning curve to it. It is also no longer maintained. However, I chose it because it is the only 1 out of those 3 that supports individual turn orders (based on AGI/Speed). The other 2 uses a Fire Emblem style turn order (entire party acts, then entire enemy troop acts). SRPG is still actively maintained and its thread offers plenty of support. I highly recommend you check out these 3 plugins to see if they might suit your needs. Good luck!

Edit: As far as the 3 criteria you mentioned, I can confirm that LeTBS fulfills #1 & #3 (I love LeTBS's LoS mechanic), but #2 will require an additional addon plugin, but I've seen it done nonetheless. Check it out:


For this, you can use either Galv's Event Detectors plugin or Yanfly's Event Proximity Activate plugin. I have tried both, and either one can get the job done. There are also stealth plugins available for that component as well. Just keep in mind you there is no single plugin that will do everything you want exactly, so you'll have to mix 'n match until you get the results you desire (this applies to many game types, not just yours). Oh, and AI is also built into LeTBS and is configurable. Not sure about SRPG since I don't have as much experience w/ that, but maybe someone can chime in.

Hello!

Thank you for your very complete explanation! Thanks to you I have the answer I was looking for : yes I can definitely use rpg maker to make my game!

So I took a bundle on steam with rpg maker mz and mv and I'll start working on my game with mz.
I think in a few years other similar plugins will appear on the mz and in the worst case I will pay someone to help me out when I come to the combat system.
I have already alot of work to do about designing characters, places, quest and story. Even if I already have alot of things done but for a 3d game and I must adapt it :).

Thanks again to all of you guys and I will surely post again on this forum as I will need advices or help.

Cheers and have a great year 2021!
 

Copywright

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Well, as someone working on a similar project in Unity, it's not impossible...

The Grids2D asset (Terrain Grid System, if you're going 3D) on the Unity asset store offers a great framework and even includes a good A* pathfinder.

Inventory Pro and other dialogue plug-ins that I find useful.

But, you definitely need a firm grasp on C# to even utilize the plug-ins effectively. If you can tie them together, much of the heavy lifting can be alleviated.

That said, I personally just like Unity better. I haven't worked in any RM engine since VX, but I do remember a good deal of eventing and scripting for battle systems (or extensions of battle systems) and GUIs. Either way, you'll be dealing with some programming to do anything beyond default.

I recently picked up Vestaria Saga, a game by the original Fire Emblem creator, Shouzo Kaga. It's pretty good and made in SRPG Engine, which is similar to RM. So, it's not impossible to pull off.
 

Frostorm

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So I took a bundle on steam with rpg maker mz and mv and I'll start working on my game with mz.
Do keep in mind that there is currently NO tactical battle system available for MZ. The 3 I mentioned are for MV only. Of course, I'm also praying for a TBS to be released for MZ eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later lol). If you like MZ for the layering/mapping features, then you can do the hybrid MV/MZ method where you do mapping on MZ but the rest (i.e. database) on MV, using MV base code. If you want to use MZ for the performance benefits, that mostly comes from the upgraded nw.js, which you can find here to upgrade MV w/ newer versions to get the same benefits.
 

AbstractMan

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I am going to agree with frostorm on the use of the LETBS plugin for MV. I grabbed MV with the explicit desire to make a game with a fallout1/2/arcanum esque battle system and was not disappointed with LETBS. It was a learning curve, to be sure, but even with little to no RPG maker or coding experience, and I was able to build a pretty decent result eventually.
1610064891328.png
1610065013536.png
 

Marquise*

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@Chorizosss Your game will be very good if F2 is your template (Hope storytelling and discovery will be too). I've spent thousands of hours in just that one (but like in many different characters. Perhaps a dozen).

It might mean lotsa replayability. But you gotta work on ISO tiling I mean all the tiles are half the others when angled (one top, one bottom and if you are fancy you can do middles) and use that plugin outside to do the diagonal walks. Lots of hours on GUI and HUD too to come up with an interesting graphic aesthetic. There is no easy button sadly. But RPGM is certainly the good adress for you to do that type of game. You'll be pushing the envelope.

BTW I've got from Steam, Waste Walker that was a survival post apocalyptic inspired game made in this engine. Do not despair and get a few testers as you do this and don't be afraid to use placeholder graphics to continue coding and scenario. ^^
 

Oir

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yes and no

the problem is the unit and movement AI. While the map contains events and event movement, none of that is linked to combat as the battles are in their own screens.

There have been different tactical battle systems over the time, and some of them even public, but they all were limited by the enemy AI. It is easier to program in a tactical system with the RMs than building the same in an engine that has no grid movement, but the RMs are basically a double-interpreted engine - the event interpreter runs on another interpreter (either RGSS or Javascript), and that reduces processing capacity.
To have even a chance of a halfway-decent enemy AI you'll need to go one step up and program it in RGSS or Javascript - forget about doing it as events. And that is the reason why most tactical battlesystems failed to gain popularity: the original programmer of the tactical script could write the enemy AI for his/her specific game, but no one else could adapt to that. Most users simply don't know javascript programming at all, much less AI-programming (which is the most complex of all).

If you can handle AI programming in javascript (or know someone who can), then it is very possible (but not easy).
If you don't have that skill available somehow, then forget the idea.

If you can handle advanced AI programming in javascript and scripting complex sequences, then you'd honestly probably be better off just using Unity lmao.
 

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