Is using custom content a must?

[Cluly]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Immersion and Atmosphere ... Environment art serves a purpose other than that of being the background or the setting for a game. The environment is the world you're supposed to be drawn into, it's where you become immersed in the world you are presented with, it's supposed to portray a feeling; a mood. When the RTP is used so prolifically in games its VERY hard to draw a player into that world, it's too familiar too them, they know what to expect and they brush it off. I would say its EASIER creating a world with custom graphics than it is with the RTP ... Oh! Ko! Is an amazing example of this ... If that (great) game used the RTP assets, would it be as immersive? No, it would be an RPG Maker game with a weird story, not the simplistic, hand drawn, dream likeworld of a child.

The answer to the original question is therefore, Mu. The question is wrong. The question should be: Does the RTP convey the atmosphere and feeling of my game?

 

[mlogan]

Beautifully said Cluly!

The first RM made games I played were Amaranth's Aveyond series (made with XP). I always loved in the the new games getting to a new town and discovering all the new beautiful graphics that were there. It was exciting to see a beautiful new town open up. And this was all still in the XP RTP style, but custom pieces. It invoked feelings of discovery.

This is a game my daughters and I enjoy playing together. http://store.steampowered.com/app/60350/

One of the first things that hooked me was the beautiful atmosphere. The music is nice and the scenery and flow of movement make it very peaceful, like when you go to an aquarium and watch the jellyfish swim around.

But, the game play is fun too and and after several levels gets pretty intense. It's a great combination of atmosphere and game play, imo.

Also, last night I was curious and looking on my phone in the app store at the top selling games. For many of them, one of the first few sentences would comment on the graphics and how beautiful they were and talk about the immersive world.

All of this to say, I stand by my original position that you don't HAVE to have original graphics to have a good game, but they can do a lot for you, for a lot of what Cluly said.

 

[nio kasgami]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Immersion and Atmosphere ... Environment art serves a purpose other than that of being the background or the setting for a game. The environment is the world you're supposed to be drawn into, it's where you become immersed in the world you are presented with, it's supposed to portray a feeling; a mood. When the RTP is used so prolifically in games its VERY hard to draw a player into that world, it's too familiar too them, they know what to expect and they brush it off. I would say its EASIER creating a world with custom graphics than it is with the RTP ... Oh! Ko! Is an amazing example of this ... If that (great) game used the RTP assets, would it be as immersive? No, it would be an RPG Maker game with a weird story, not the simplistic, hand drawn, dream likeworld of a child.

The answer to the original question is therefore, Mu. The question is wrong. The question should be: Does the RTP convey the atmosphere and feeling of my game?

for that I will approve!

but like I said earlier if the guy is not a artist like you and me and can't afford to pay a artist for his game and use rtp this mean his game will not be good because he don't use custom asset? 

 

[Kes]

@nio

but like I said earlier if the guy is not a artist like you and me and can't afford to pay a artist for his game and use rtp this mean his game will not be good because he don't use custom asset? 

There is a substantial (enormous) amount of resources freely available for non-artists with no money.  Also, I think that a general consensus has emerged that a game can be good with RTP as well as bad with custom.  If you want an example think of Luchino's game Enelysion which used VX RTP, but her mapping skills and use of overlays for lighting are excellent.  Or, iirc, doesn't Tinkles Must Die use only the RTP?  Yet think how many people have enjoyed that game.  Certainly well used assets specifically geared to your particular game can, as Cluly so clearly explained, add hugely to the immersion and atmosphere, so are highly desirable, but they are not, imo, essential for a good game.

 

[Ms Littlefish]

The assets of your game are part of the narrative. They are there as a means to illustrate the game. I think it goes without saying that no matter what graphic style you use, that they still do not just do the work for you. There is a lot of planning and execution involved and there is still a lot or work in creating the atmosphere with your graphics whether that be with color editing, lighting, combining sets, having a few custom pieces, parallax, or even a fully custom set of tiles.

 

[amerk]

@nio

There is a substantial (enormous) amount of resources freely available for non-artists with no money.  Also, I think that a general consensus has emerged that a game can be good with RTP as well as bad with custom.  If you want an example think of Luchino's game Enelysion which used VX RTP, but her mapping skills and use of overlays for lighting are excellent.  Or, iirc, doesn't Tinkles Must Die use only the RTP?  Yet think how many people have enjoyed that game.  Certainly well used assets specifically geared to your particular game can, as Cluly so clearly explained, add hugely to the immersion and atmosphere, so are highly desirable, but they are not, imo, essential for a good game.

Yep, the store has them real cheap (the cost of a dinner out in most cases) so you're not paying high expensive fees if you had hired an artist straight out. Sure, it's the RTP style (for the most part), and some people will still complain about the look, but in that case they'll probably complain no matter what you do. Plus, the store has other styles as well, with the DS and DS+ and the High Fantasy sets, also very reasonably priced.

But even if somebody can't use the store, like you said, the internet is chalk full of free alternatives, some of which can be used commercially, and then there are free art programs like Paint.net so you can easily change tilesets and recolor and edit the material you have.

And I think that's where info is being missed. There's nothing wrong with the RTP, it's what you do with it that matters, and a lot of the time it takes little effort and money to really spice it up. But for some reason, some people begin to think in high dollar amounts they can't afford, and so they don't put any effort in at all.

I mean, I'm no artist by any means, not even close, but I do have fun taking trees and then using Photoshop to create clusters of them to add a more forest like tileset, or even taking tree stumps and adding a bit of vegetation to them. You can really make a lot of clutter and debris to give you a more ruin-like atmosphere with the broken boxes and vases and pillars. You can even alter the color or tint of the tiles to create a more dingy look.

The only thing that does get a bit wonky at times is remembering pixel placement, so that moving around in the game doesn't get awkward with the passability settings.

 

[whitesphere]

Basically, it sounds like the game's world and how it looks should define what happens in terms of tilesets/sprites/etc.  While the graphics in RPG Maker games are clearly abstractions (we don't have photorealistic sprites, for example), the most important thing the graphics do is to clearly represent the mood and representation of the game's world.

In Chrono Trigger, for example, the 2300 AD world is a dreary post-apocalyptic one, and the subdued tiles and grim music do a fantastic job of conveying that impression.  This is in sharp contrast to the 65,000,000 BC era's more lush, jungle-themed tiles and music for example.  Each tileset and music gives each world a unique feel.

In RPG Maker, the RTP is very brightly colored and I like using it, especially since it seems to have a lot of tilesets and resources that go well with it, like the Future tileset.  But, since I do plan to have Cyberspace be a decent sized chunk of the game, I need to create a simplified custom tileset to represent Cyberspace areas (I'm thinking bright Tron-esque lines, crosses, etc).  If I do that and have a few simple RTP modifications, that custom content should really help make my game unique without requiring me to have a lot of artistic ability.

I think custom content is a continuum going all the way from "Take stock RTP and store tilesets, with a tiny set of mods" all the way up to "Spend thousands of dollars to make custom everything"  Most of us can stay on the cheaper, more modest end and still stand out nicely from the completely stock RTP games.

 

[nio kasgami]

@nio

There is a substantial (enormous) amount of resources freely available for non-artists with no money.  Also, I think that a general consensus has emerged that a game can be good with RTP as well as bad with custom.  If you want an example think of Luchino's game Enelysion which used VX RTP, but her mapping skills and use of overlays for lighting are excellent.  Or, iirc, doesn't Tinkles Must Die use only the RTP?  Yet think how many people have enjoyed that game.  Certainly well used assets specifically geared to your particular game can, as Cluly so clearly explained, add hugely to the immersion and atmosphere, so are highly desirable, but they are not, imo, essential for a good game.

HO DAMN true I forgot these game who are a perfect use of the rtp!

Yep, the store has them real cheap (the cost of a dinner out in most cases) so you're not paying high expensive fees if you had hired an artist straight out. Sure, it's the RTP style (for the most part), and some people will still complain about the look, but in that case they'll probably complain no matter what you do. Plus, the store has other styles as well, with the DS and DS+ and the High Fantasy sets, also very reasonably priced.

But even if somebody can't use the store, like you said, the internet is chalk full of free alternatives, some of which can be used commercially, and then there are free art programs like Paint.net so you can easily change tilesets and recolor and edit the material you have.

And I think that's where info is being missed. There's nothing wrong with the RTP, it's what you do with it that matters, and a lot of the time it takes little effort and money to really spice it up. But for some reason, some people begin to think in high dollar amounts they can't afford, and so they don't put any effort in at all.

I mean, I'm no artist by any means, not even close, but I do have fun taking trees and then using Photoshop to create clusters of them to add a more forest like tileset, or even taking tree stumps and adding a bit of vegetation to them. You can really make a lot of clutter and debris to give you a more ruin-like atmosphere with the broken boxes and vases and pillars. You can even alter the color or tint of the tiles to create a more dingy look.

The only thing that does get a bit wonky at times is remembering pixel placement, so that moving around in the game doesn't get awkward with the passability settings.

yep I admit I love rtp to and try to challenge myself to only use the rtp one's in my current game and this pretty enjoyable the only thing's I want to invest are music and custom animated battler (also luna)

but I totally Agreed with you in the fact they have plenty resources on the web and you can always edit it! 

this was more how Cluly said that I was like "meh so rtp can't be immersive" but 

I think simply I misread how he wanted to mean is stuff

for me who have a lack in mapping I can't count on the mapping for make my game immersive so I try in general with a lot of graphics and Deep story for make the character enter in the story...

but for me Rtp have their charm who sadly get a little stain with bad game made with the rtp.

 

[Celianna]

Tai_MT you were banned from this thread, refrain from posting in it.

 

[bgillisp]

Since we have been talking about the RTP and custom content, what are some tilesets that seem to work well with the RTP?

 

[nio kasgami]

Since we have been talking about the RTP and custom content, what are some tilesets that seem to work well with the RTP?

a new kind of question but answered a lot

I think Mellipon made a topics who compile wich tileset who are not clash with the rtp

 

[bgillisp]

I *thought* had seen a thread about clashing and non-clashing tilesets, but I don't remember it ever answering specifically what worked with the RTP. Might be wrong though, I'll search around some.

 

[Celianna]

There's this topic for resource packs that match the RTP.

 

[bgillisp]

There's this topic for resource packs that match the RTP.

Thanks! Bookmarked it.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion....

 

[Tsukihime]

Does it really show laziness?

It could.


No one other than the ones that decided to pick the choice of assets would know why they were picked.


Even if you come out and explicitly say you chose them for reasons like "saving time" or "you liked them", there are still going to be people that think "excuses. you're just too lazy to draw your own or pay someone to draw it for you"


This is not limited to RPG Maker. Every major game engine has stock resources of some kind (mainly to get you started or for demo purposes), and they likely have communities that produce content (paid or otherwise).

Can't one achieve same things with stock content as opposed to someone with custom content? Thanks.

If we assume the stock assets was composed primarily of super cute things, is a horror game with super cute graphics going to achieve the same thing as a horror game with a more expansive variety of assets to choose from?

 

[Sharm]

Cluly, are you saying that art is only set dressing or are you saying that art is part of the story telling? I believe the latter myself.

 

[TheoAllen]

Even if you come out and explicitly say you chose them for reasons like "saving time" or "you liked them", there are still going to be people that think "excuses. you're just too lazy to draw your own or pay someone to draw it for you"

Can't argue this ...

But I do understand some people who tend to choose RTP because they like it.

Me, personally prefer using RTP especially tileset. I can do most of kind of terrain than using any resource packs.

 

[Cluly]

Cluly, are you saying that art is only set dressing or are you saying that art is part of the story telling? I believe the latter myself.

Story telling, definitely. A games aesthetic will hook you into the world. Like I said in the above post, it's difficult to be hooked into a familiar world you've seen before, or one where the art aesthetic doesn't lend itself to the genre. A great example of this is the plethora of horror games made in RPG maker. The RTP doesn't really lend itself to this genre, and before anyone says "oh but there's LOADS of good RPG Maker horror games!" Yes that's correct, but the great ones, Mad Father, IB, Corpse Party etc all use custom content to hook you into that world. Mad Father KIND of gets away with it, but I only think that's because you're playing from the eyes of a child and its used very sparingly (carpets, rugs etc.)

EDIT: Hmmm I had another example but I had the wrong game in mind ... Need to dig out the game I was thinking about and I shall update.

 

[whitesphere]

Basically, the graphics and music work together to set the mood and do a great deal to tell the story.  Take your favorite RPG and envision it being done on a featureless piece of paper, with stick drawings for the players and monsters, and absolutely NO music or sound effects.  I can actually envision that working --- if the entire game is deliberately "young child telling a story", but even there the stick figure graphics ARE a large part of the story.

There is an online only RPG which does this, but that is deliberate satire.

But a serious RPG, say Final Fantasy IV?  The game would lose a lot of its impact even though the text would be kept the same.   The graphics basically imply the entire world's feel and the background music sets a more specific mood.     Think of the triumphant event when Cecil redeems himself and becomes a Paladin --- the music and graphics are what make that event so significant, emotionally.

Now, does this mean we need custom graphics or sound?  We need whatever gives our game's story the most impact.  This means carefully choosing the background music and the tileset, as well as crafting each map with care to tell a lot more about the area than we directly have PCs or NPCs say in text.  Creative use of the RTP can do a great deal, but the key is the effort and care put into the game.

 

[BlackLiquidSorrow]

It could.

No one other than the ones that decided to pick the choice of assets would know why they were picked.

Even if you come out and explicitly say you chose them for reasons like "saving time" or "you liked them", there are still going to be people that think "excuses. you're just too lazy to draw your own or pay someone to draw it for you"

This is not limited to RPG Maker. Every major game engine has stock resources of some kind (mainly to get you started or for demo purposes), and they likely have communities that produce content (paid or otherwise).

If we assume the stock assets was composed primarily of super cute things, is a horror game with super cute graphics going to achieve the same thing as a horror game with a more expansive variety of assets to choose from?

I don't know, a horror game with cute graphics could be effective. Think about it. If you went into a plush toy store while super creepy music was playing, wouldn't you think something was up?