Keeping people from abusing a ingame utility

Zoltor

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I have a item(It's a unbrakeable key item) that opens a rift to a town that pretty much has every facility you could ever want.

The item  being unuseable in dungeons is a given, and while I don't mind it being useable on any non-dungeon map, I don't want it to be treated as a portable super city either.

What I came up with to fix this, is set a CD timer to start once you go back through the rift, to the place you first used the item to open the rift. However I was planning to start testing it with a 2 hour CD Timer(and then if that's not enough, make it 3 hours, which would definitely be plenty), but the timer is capped at like 1 hour, and 40ish min.

Do you think 1 and 40ish minutes would be enough of a CD, to prevent having access to such from being abused?
 

cabfe

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I don't know the pacing of your game, but 1h40 is already a lot of time.

If there are no other way to access similar facilities in the world, that could even be too long.

Often, players like to go to town after a dungeon, to sell loot and buy new stuff/potions. How long is a typical dungeon of yours?
 

Arkecia

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If it can't be used inside dungeons; I don't really see the need to limit it since you're just making the player backtrack that extra time to sell/buy stuff when you came up with a convenient solution to that. I loved the Recall spell in oldschool RPGs that allowed me to teleport straight to a hub town where I could replenish healing items while selling stuff so my inventory didn't get full or cluttered.

In any case, you should totally keep access to the town. I wouldn't go so far as to allow it during dungeons though since I assume you can heal in the city, but so far you make it sound good the way it is minus the timer.
 

Shaz

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Does that mean you could only use it for an hour and 40 minutes? Or that you just have to wait that long before using it again?


I'd say half an hour to 45 minutes would be enough - as long as the player has plenty to keep them occupied in the meantime. 1:40 seems a bit longish. How long is your game? How long before they actually get this item?
 

Zoltor

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Looks like I need to clarify some things. The city in question is really meant for side questing, and that's what I want it to be mainly used for. While it does have Inns, priests, and shops, I don't want it used as a carry along city.

Dungeons are gonna vary,but probally an average of around 30m or so.

Also It's not the only town in the world, after beating a dungeon, It's expected that you use a return spell, to teleport to any city you have been to(except the city the item brings you to, as that's a special city) or just walk to the nearest town/city.

To shaz: It's how long you would have to wait, before using the item again.

30-40m would definitely not be long enough, because you'll propally beable to beat most dungeons within that time, allowing the player to basically almost never go to a reg town again, if they don't want.
 
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Lulladie

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One idea that popped into my head is that you could make it a "chargable" item.  Let's say it has 2 uses available to get into town, before it needs to be charged up somewhere so it can continue to be used.  c:  That way, the player has to think "Do I really wanna use one of my charges and have to walk aaaall the way into this remote area to recharge it so I can go back in?"  
 

cabfe

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Depending on this key item background, maybe you can make it work only on specific areas, which could be regular towns or other places.

It could be a special altar or crystal or whatever, only found at those places.

By putting those places at strategic locations, the player would still need to visit the "normal" towns AND get the opportunity to travel to the super city.
 

Zoltor

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One idea that popped into my head is that you could make it a "chargable" item.  Let's say it has 2 uses available to get into town, before it needs to be charged up somewhere so it can continue to be used.  c:  That way, the player has to think "Do I really wanna use one of my charges and have to walk aaaall the way into this remote area to recharge it so I can go back in?"  
Yea that could work, I might do that  if the timer doesn't work out(I don't have enough of the actual game made yet, to properly test it)

To Cabfe: Yea um no, that would defeat the purpose/function, and story revolving around this item(nevermind the ingenious workings of the mechanic ingeneral) if I did that
 
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Kyutaru

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How about just not having the key item be round trip?  How often would you recall back to a super city that was 24 scenes in the opposite direction of where you're traveling to?

Probably not that often...

It's the fact that you're giving them an easy way to get BACK to where they just were that makes the item exploitable.
 

Zoltor

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How about just not having the key item be round trip?  How often would you recall back to a super city that was 24 scenes in the opposite direction of where you're traveling to?

Probably not that often...

It's the fact that you're giving them an easy way to get BACK to where they just were that makes the item exploitable.
That's not a option either, you see the party, and that city are in 2 completely different dimensions(through most of the game), so they can't get to the city on foot for the most part, and when they enter the city through the rift created from using the item, they can't exit the city the normal way(they have to go back through the rift to leave the city).

You see I had to come up with an idea to allow them access to a city in a dimension they no longer had access to(It's that important of a city), because they got stuck in another dimension. 
 

AngelGrace

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Don't use a timer. Use a variable that "charges"

You could do it off steps, or even off monsters defeated.

Or, since you say the city is meant to use only for side questing, only let them go there for those side quests. I can't articulate what I mean very well, it's almost midnight here, but only let them go there for side quests; you could have it accessed via a crystal (or something. I have a bit of a Crystal fetish, it's gotten into every game I've done) in every town (Since you said you don't want it used as a portable city)
 

gcook725

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General rule of game design for influencing a player to not abuse some kind of utility is to somehow deincentivize its use or to incentivize the use of something else as an alternative.

For example, in World of Warcraft when the Cataclysm expansion released the developers remade a couple of the older capital cities with new textures and layouts. However no one would ever see them because all the players would prefer the previous expansion's capital city of Dalaran because of the convenience of its portals which lead pretty much anywhere the player could want to go. They added incentive to see the shinier, newer cities by removing the portals in Dalaran.

So, the question is what can you to either incentivize going to normal towns, or deincentivize going to the town you can portal to?

One option is the add a timer on being able to go to the portal town, but often times you will end up just having a player AFK to wait for the cooldown to be over so they could go there. It would be ineffective and make the player feel like you're being heavy-handed in limiting their use of this "super awesome portal town"

Another option is to have it recharge in some way. Basically forcing the players to do something (as mentioned before, walking steps or killing monsters) to slowly recharge the portal. The downside to this is that players can sometimes think of this as tedious or grindy in some fashion and be rather off putting.

Another possible solution is include some kind of purchasable item that allows the player to teleport to the portal town. Perhaps these can be most commonly found in normal towns or rarely as treasure. The downside here is that players will likely overstock on them early if they're cheap enough so they won't have to buy them ever again or they will feel that obtaining them is too difficult/grind-focused if they're too rare or expensive.

Yet another possibility is to somehow deincentivize use of the portal city by incentivizing normal towns with a reason to go to instead of the portal city. The most obvious solution here would be access to vendors or the quality of their items; for example the portal city could be way behind the "technology curve" of normal towns when it comes to the quality of items you can purchase there. The downside here is that you would have to give a completely unrelated incentive to actually go to the portal town (for example, the side quests you mentioned, special fun items, etc.).

A final solution I can think of is to only allow access to the portal city from special locations. Examples include save points and other more important towns. This would make the portal town something the player looked forward to in addition to whatever method is used to reach it. Putting the portal in each major town would solve incentivizing the player wanting to go to both places, so long as each location (the normal town and the portal town) had different reasons for the player wanting to visit them (such as better items in the normal towns, but side quests and some other special utility such as fast travel in the portal city).

In short, it all boils down to incentives and how to nudge your players to do what you want them to. Another thing to remember, if you're afraid players might think something is so powerful/useful that they would always use above everything else, chances are that it is.
 
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Zoltor

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I was already thinking of making the priest in that city not have the save option, if you enter the city through the use of the item, and I suppose I could also make it so they don't have the best items in their shops...

Oh that's it, I'll make the city its self upgradeable. It will start out only offering the crappiest items, and equipment in the shops(making normal towns/cities have better items/equipment throughout most the game).

Between that, and the CD timer, there's no reason why people would use the special city, opposed to warping/walking to the reg towns or cities(not to mention it would add an entire line of of more side quests).
 
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gcook725

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In that case, it might be interesting to see the special city eventually have some kind of unique or otherwise more interesting items once it gets far more upgraded, perhaps only really accessable towards the later end of the game. That makes upgranding the city not only a matter of convenience, but a matter of completing another side quest with its own interesting rewards in and of itself. It would also add incentive to visit the city more occasionally instead of constantly since the upgrades (be it lots of money, special items, or special side quests) should probably be difficult to attain.
 

Zoltor

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In that case, it might be interesting to see the special city eventually have some kind of unique or otherwise more interesting items once it gets far more upgraded, perhaps only really accessable towards the later end of the game. That makes upgranding the city not only a matter of convenience, but a matter of completing another side quest with its own interesting rewards in and of itself. It would also add incentive to visit the city more occasionally instead of constantly since the upgrades (be it lots of money, special items, or special side quests) should probably be difficult to attain.
Yea, that's the plan, and yea I was gonna go the special side quest route.

This games gonna have so many side quests in general, It's gonna be epic :)
 

Clord

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I personally removed a cost to portal back to town after I realized how inconvenient it is for no good reason.


You should consider that if mechanic X might frustrate your players and if it is worth it.
 
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Zoltor

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I personally removed a cost to portal back to town after I realized how inconvenient it is for no good reason.

You should consider that if mechanic X might frustrate your players and if it is worth it.
Well player X can kiss my but, and use a return spell to return to a normal town, just like in pretty much every RPG ever made lol.  This extra city(is not meant as a convenience, you need healing, what can I say, bring Tents, and other healing items with you), is just that, a extra bonus city, that has "optional" side quests(ok it has a metric ton of side quests, but everything to do in this city is optional).

Hell finding the item that gives you access to the city(Chrono Stone) is a side quest in of its self.

Seriously if having a cost on your portal/return spell in too inconvenient for the player, at that point, they probally shouldn't be playing games at all, they should watch a movie instead(movies play themselves afterall).,  Handholding, and such is the worst thing to ever happen to game design.

PS. I guess I shouldn't mention I deleted the save option in the menu huh(yea no saving on world map, and any place you please in a dungeons(Town, and the once in a blue moon save points only) :)
 
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cabfe

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Wait, you deleted the Save option and you add a CD to the city where you can save ?

I hope I didn't get it right. That would be unplayable.
 

Robin

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Seriously if having a cost on your portal/return spell in too inconvenient for the player, at that point, they probally shouldn't be playing games at all, they should watch a movie instead(movies play themselves afterall).,  Handholding, and such is the worst thing to ever happen to game design.

PS. I guess I shouldn't mention I deleted the save option in the menu huh(yea no saving on world map, and any place you please in a dungeons(Town, and the once in a blue moon save points only) :)
I think the worst thing to ever happen to game design is developers restricting the ability of players to save the game.
 

Kes

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I wonder if it might be a good idea to start an 'Early Project' thread where you can gather all your points about your game into one convenient place, because at the moment there is an extensive amount of information, but it is scattered across a great many topics.

Handholding, and such is the worst thing to ever happen to game design.
Really, you have said so many things are "the worst thing to ever happen" that I've quite lost track of your rankings.
 
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