Kill it with Fire! I'm looking for feedback on spells.

Milennin

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You mean why is it fun to play a game that is based on the Final Fantasy Elemental system that has been around since 1987? Where some enemies have resistance, some are vulnerable and some are immune to certain spells? That has sold millions of games worldwide? IDK. Why would anyone play a game like that? You got me stumped there.
Considering the time it came out in, when free to play games didn't exist. When standards for a combat system beyond elemental rock/paper/scissors didn't exist. For a game that had going more for it than just elemental rock/paper/scissors in combat (graphics, music, story, characters, world).
And it still doesn't answer the question what's fun about letting the elemental tag decide for you what skill to use in combat, rather than thinking over the choice between multiple different skills that are all useful in a situation, but with different effects that will outcome the course of the following turns.
 

Wavelength

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You mean why is it fun to play a game that is based on the Final Fantasy Elemental system that has been around since 1987? Where some enemies have resistance, some are vulnerable and some are immune to certain spells? That has sold millions of games worldwide? IDK. Why would anyone play a game like that? You got me stumped there.
Just because a game was very popular doesn't mean that every mechanic in it is good (and even the mechanics that are good might only be good for that game). All popular games have a mixture of good and bad mechanics. Final Fantasy itself reinvents a lot of mechanics for each new game in the series. And the recent FF7 Remake scrapped quite a lot from the original battle system, which is basically an admission that some of the mechanics from the FF6-9 era don't really hold up today.

If you ask for feedback and multiple people tell you that something probably won't work too well, it's a good thing to be humble and at least try another approach. Implement each into your game, do some testing in a real dungeon, and see which one plays better. You may be surprised.
 

Tanarex

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...she also has a perfectly normal attack that hits with swords. So not at all the same.

You started this thread asking for people to give you opinions on how to help your system, but every reply you write seems to be fighting against what they say and trying to reinforce this opinion you've formed for yourself as to why the way you've already done it is right (ignoring the fact that it's gotten you into a predicament).

There's not really any point in replying any further if you're not interested in rational conversation. I wish you the best with your project.
My Elementalist also has a normal attack. So I don't see your point. I was asking about how I should implement the system visually. Not if I should I just scrap it. There is no predicament. A few people think the FF magic system is garbage. Millions would disagree. Especially since the idea has spread to pretty much every popular fantasy RPG game and some non-fantasy ones.
Are you sure FF sold a million copies has a direct correlation to their element system?
Would it have sold millions if it just had magic without any difference between the spells? Prolly not. There wouldn't be any strategy at all. Doesn't matter what you use. They all do the same thing.
 

ATT_Turan

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The problem is when he has to fight monsters that are immune to certain elemental magic...So if there are 4 or 5 water creatures he is pretty screwed...I'm trying to keep all the character's skills even. So what is the answer? ...Of course, that would make him sound even more stupidly powerful than the others. He will have about 4 ultimate elemental abilities. Any thoughts on this?

I was asking about how I should implement the system visually...There is no predicament.
I know I had peaced out, but this is just so silly...you've lost complete track of your original post at this point :D Your original questions, quoted above, have nothing to do with a visual representation, and you state you have a problem (synonym for "predicament").

Your questions are what to do when you choose to make elemental immune monsters (a game design/balance question), and a concern about simply giving him more skills (also a design question). You never state that he has access to a regular physical attack that can be effective against all enemies, because then the obvious answer will be that there are going to be situations where the correct tactical choice is to use an attack instead of a skill.
 

Stimulantfound

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Balancing issues like this is why instead of initially using the typical elements, I gave everyone innate abilities. Like, a succubus can seduce, and slime can poison, etc.

I eventually added some of the typical elements, but to help balance it I added quintessence to the mix.
 

Tanarex

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Balancing issues like this is why instead of initially using the typical elements, I gave everyone innate abilities. Like, a succubus can seduce, and slime can poison, etc.

I eventually added some of the typical elements, but to help balance it I added quintessence to the mix.
Yes, I have those for enemies and some of the characters. It's not a very long game. It might be 6 hours. And most of that is usually the story and quests. There aren't a lot of battles at first. But it picks up in the last half. There are zero random battles. Too many people on here are making judgments about my game without playing it. It's like writing a movie review because they watched a trailer for it.
 

Wavelength

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Too many people on here are making judgments about my game without playing it. It's like writing a movie review because they watched a trailer for it.
That is literally what you asked for when you posted your thread here, especially with the title "Looking for feedback on my spells".

We can only give you feedback based on what you've explained about your game, and make assumptions to try and build a full picture that we can then give you useful feedback on. We might not know that "there aren't a lot of battles at first", for example. If you want to post a video of your system, or post a demo so we can feel how it plays, you can do so.

Everyone here is trying to offer useful criticism and ideas - feedback, in other words. I think a lot of it certainly has been useful - or at least would be if you were humble enough to take it to heart. Some of us have a lot of game dev experienced and we have already stepped through the same things you're trying to figure out with spells and elements, and realized our mistakes (and better ways to do it) along the way.

And we may be right. And we may be wrong, and simply blind to the genius of how everything comes together in your particular project. But it feels to me, honestly, like you are rejecting a lot of the feedback for no other reason than it's not telling you that your system is brilliant and needs no changes - and then you're coming up with little handwaves like "you don't understand how this other calculation works" so that you don't have to face the possibility your system might (or might not!) suck. I know that sounds accusatory and I'm sorry for that, but I mean it as an observation, not an accusation. It's nothing against you at all. It's just that I felt bad seeing so much good, helpful advice just shot down without giving it the serious depth of consideration that it deserves.
 

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